Survey outcome - Hull?

[harrybsmith]

Another thing to bear in mind (because I've not seen it mentioned much) is wet film thickness, it's very difficult to achieve the specified wet film thickness for many epoxy blackings with a roller, so few do. This makes it worse. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

The other complication is that if your are painting the baseplate then you'll need to move the boat into a different position on the supports so you can paint those bits as well. If you don't then the argument is you create an unprotected "anodic" area that corrosion will become even more focused on than had you not painted it at all.

But as soon as you've scraped the bottom anywhere, which you will do pretty quickly, you will have some unprotected areas. Better epoxy as much as you can I would have thought.

Edited March 20, 2023 by David Mack

[Captain Pegg]

I'd never try to dissuade anyone from putting a better protective system on their boat - be it a properly prepared two-pack or a zinc rich base coat - but I do think the practicalities of treating an older boat can get overlooked in these discussions. The real failure with canal boats is that the science of how to protect new boats really hasn't moved on enough. Older boats are to a degree stuck with old technology.

 

The thing about old fashioned bituminous blacking is that if it is regularly jet washed and re-applied a considerable thickness builds up. Yes some places can get scraped back to bare metal but on the whole other than the rubbing strakes - which are intended for that purpose - it tends not to happen. And it's the same on the baseplate. The blacking doesn't get worn off as it often suggested. The baseplate on Vulpes has been routinely blacked over it's lifespan and between coats a series of striations appear in the blacking along the length of the boat and they may or may not go back to bare metal. The thing is to simply get some coating on and keep reapplying it. It's not the end of the world if a bit gets missed if you do it every two years.

 

If you want to put a modern system on an old boat you have to subject it to an agressive process to remove all the stuff that has built up. That can cause problems in itself; the counter argument would be that it is unearthing potentially hidden problems. Personally I stick with blacking done regularly and having not had the baseplate done for a couple of cycles I decided to get it done last time.

 

 

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

But as soon as you've scraped the bottom anywhere, which you will do pretty quickly, you will have some unprotected areas. Better epoxy as much as you can I would have thought.

 

Yes in general I agree, the more paint you can get on a hull the better, but the jury's out on whether scraped or unpainted areas on plates without anodes are then more susceptible to corrosion.

 

Also I haven't done as much cruising as you but I've never actually scraped anything more than mud on the bottom. My boat only draws 2ft 2in so there's no real need to scrape things. Deeper drafted boats may have different experiences 

 

Anyway, my main point was that if you are going to epoxy the baseplate then it needs to be gritblasted first.

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

If you want to put a modern system on an old boat you have to subject it to an agressive process to remove all the stuff that has built up. That can cause problems in itself; the counter argument would be that it is unearthing potentially hidden problems. 

 

Indeed. If gritblasting goes though the thin plating of an old hill then it was too thin! Thick layers of bitumen are not a substitute for good steel!

[David Mack]

34 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Also I haven't done as much cruising as you but I've never actually scraped anything more than mud on the bottom. My boat only draws 2ft 2in so there's no real need to scrape things. Deeper drafted boats may have different experiences 

One of the points quoted on the OP's survey is that the wear edges are getting a bit thin. If mm of steel has been worn away then any blacking is long gone! 

Boats that are shallow drafted enough not to encounter the bottom in mid channel are still likely to do so when coming into the side to moor, which is where the wear edges come into play. And a craft that started life as a hire boat will have had plenty of inexperienced steering!

[LilMissMolly]

6 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That is as fair a guess as anything else, but it seems a very heavily built boat of so. I suspect it might be poor ultrasonic tester reading, and it includes over-plate in certain areas ------ that is until we are told differently.

I think that’s a very fair question.

from looking back over the survey:

 

“The aft most 0.5m section of the base plate was found to be 12mm thick plate as is the bow and counter plates plus a good deal of the central base plate although there did appear to be some sections constructed from 10mm plate.“

 

It just seems to be a really odd Hull in all but rather “Tanky” if a little uneven.

 

I do think she was at one point a hire boat based on her build but the multi fuel stove has me thrown a little - so I’m guessing she was refurbed at somepoint?

 

Ultimately though, if I get her, I don’t really plan to part with her for the foreseeable future - I fully expect maintainance as she’s an old gal anyway but as I said, there’s maintaince and there’s fighting a losing battle, as long as she isn’t the latter, I’m in for the long haul and not expecting or looking for a profit! 😅

 

[MtB]

A Story.

 

A decade or two ago I bought a boat that has been regularly docked and blacked throughout its life. Docked and blacked every 25 years, regardless of whether it needed it or not. (I liked it a lot, yersee!)

 

A few years later whilst having some work done a scab fell off the baseplate and it tried really hard to sink. Fortunately Good ol' Barry Tuckey with his crane was sitting by the phone, waiting for it to ring....

 

Prolly not relevant but I thought I'd tell you anyway.

 

Edit to add:

Oops forgot the point of posting! A few months prior to the attempted sinking I'd had it docked and surveyed by a well known and highly respected surveyor. A1 result and fully comprehensively insurable according to the survey report. That was it, really. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by MtB

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

Indeed. If gritblasting goes though the thin plating of an old hill then it was too thin! Thick layers of bitumen are not a substitute for good steel!

 

I was more thinking of exposing some of the less desirable features of older boats such as intermittently welded rubbing strakes. If they have been protected and effectively sealed by multiple coats of bituminous blacking you might not get a better job by exposing them and re-coating them no matter how good the coating itself is in theory. Unless of course you get them replaced/re-welded at the same time.

 

I think the only time I would choose to have a more modern coating is if I had to have significant hull repairs done. There's no need to fix something that isn't broken but a good maintenance regime is needed to keep an old boat going. The boat in question in the thread is not broken. The main thing is to do something to keep it in order. There isn't an absolute right or wrong.

 

 

[LilMissMolly]

So little update - I ended up going for ole gal 😅

 

I really do want to thank you all; certainly gave me a lot to think about and it seems keeping her going isn’t something totally beyond my skill or capabilities - got to be a bit more mindful of things than I would a newer boat for sure but ultimately it seems she stands a good chance as long as I stick to my word on keeping up with maintaince! (There’s always a risk with boats anyway!) 

 

Should be sailing her away on the 14th if everything goes to plan and the River Nene plays nice! - then the lovely cosmetic work begins to really put my stamp on her! Haha 

[GUMPY]

8 hours ago, LilMissMolly said:

Should be sailing her away on the 14th if everything goes to plan and the River Nene plays nice! - then the lovely cosmetic work begins to really put my stamp on her! Haha 

Where did you find to moor the boat?

The Nene is certainly not playing nicely at the moment, we were due out next week down to Wansford but that's been cancelled ☹️

[Lochwarden]

11 hours ago, LilMissMolly said:

So little update - I ended up going for ole gal 😅

 

I really do want to thank you all; certainly gave me a lot to think about and it seems keeping her going isn’t something totally beyond my skill or capabilities - got to be a bit more mindful of things than I would a newer boat for sure but ultimately it seems she stands a good chance as long as I stick to my word on keeping up with maintaince! (There’s always a risk with boats anyway!) 

 

Should be sailing her away on the 14th if everything goes to plan and the River Nene plays nice! - then the lovely cosmetic work begins to really put my stamp on her! Haha 

More rain forecast I’m afraid 😞 no chance of getting out for a while. I’m moored on a marina on the Nene, refurbing my 1990 narrowboat. Where are you moored? 

[LilMissMolly]

3 hours ago, Loddon said:

Where did you find to moor the boat?

The Nene is certainly not playing nicely at the moment, we were due out next week down to Wansford but that's been cancelled ☹️

 

35 minutes ago, Lochwarden said:

More rain forecast I’m afraid 😞 no chance of getting out for a while. I’m moored on a marina on the Nene, refurbing my 1990 narrowboat. Where are you moored? 

I’ll be moored at White Mills, Earls Barton. 😊

 

good links to get to work and highly recommended by my colleague who is already moored there! Haha

 

yes, did think I’d be facing my problems with the Nene - unforgiving mistress that one! 

[GUMPY]

Nene = sometimes navigable flood control system.

 

It's a beautiful river the further down you go the better it gets.

 

 

[Lochwarden]

19 minutes ago, LilMissMolly said:

 

I’ll be moored at White Mills, Earls Barton. 😊

 

good links to get to work and highly recommended by my colleague who is already moored there! Haha

 

yes, did think I’d be facing my problems with the Nene - unforgiving mistress that one! 

She certainly is. Don’t want to be venturing out when she’s carrying extra water! You’re not that far from me then, I’m at Blackthorn lake marina in Ringstead, near Thrapston. Enjoy your boat, I know you will 😊 I’ve only been on my boat since July last year, and wouldn’t change it for the world! It’s way more than a home, it’s a 24 hour a day never ending hobby. Always something to do, fix, replace, repair. I love it 😊

[GUMPY]

15 minutes ago, Lochwarden said:

She certainly is. Don’t want to be venturing out when she’s carrying extra water! You’re not that far from me then, I’m at Blackthorn lake marina in Ringstead, near Thrapston. Enjoy your boat, I know you will 😊 I’ve only been on my boat since July last year, and wouldn’t change it for the world! It’s way more than a home, it’s a 24 hour a day never ending hobby. Always something to do, fix, replace, repair. I love it 😊

Another Blackthorn Boat.

I will be about from Monday evening.

 

[Lochwarden]

26 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Another Blackthorn Boat.

I will be about from Monday evening.

 

So I’m assuming you’re on blackthorn as well?

[GUMPY]

Yes on the  main pontoon

[LilMissMolly]

48 minutes ago, Lochwarden said:

She certainly is. Don’t want to be venturing out when she’s carrying extra water! You’re not that far from me then, I’m at Blackthorn lake marina in Ringstead, near Thrapston. Enjoy your boat, I know you will 😊 I’ve only been on my boat since July last year, and wouldn’t change it for the world! It’s way more than a home, it’s a 24 hour a day never ending hobby. Always something to do, fix, replace, repair. I love it 😊

Haha this is actually an aspect I’m rather excited about!!! 😂

 

already have a list of things I want to do - and I imagine for every 1 thing I cross off, I’ll find 3 more to add!! 
 

shouldnt wish my life away but cannot wait for the next two weeks to speed by so I can start my life afloat!

 

hopefully will be seeing some of you out and about! 😁 always good to put faces to screen names!

[Lochwarden]

1 minute ago, LilMissMolly said:

Haha this is actually an aspect I’m rather excited about!!! 😂

 

already have a list of things I want to do - and I imagine for every 1 thing I cross off, I’ll find 3 more to add!! 
 

shouldnt wish my life away but cannot wait for the next two weeks to speed by so I can start my life afloat!

 

hopefully will be seeing some of you out and about! 😁 always good to put faces to screen names!

Yes, I had a long “to do” list on the wall, but after running out of space on the list I tore it down 😂 It would be nice to put faces to screen names, for sure. Hoping to spend every available weekend out on the river this year, so who knows, might bump into you 😊

9 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Yes on the  main pontoon

Ah, same here 

[David Mack]

Just now, Lochwarden said:

Hoping to spend every available weekend out on the river this year, so who knows, might bump into you 😊

Not literally I hope! 🙄

[LilMissMolly]

Just now, David Mack said:

Not literally I hope! 🙄

you mean it’s not like bumper cars on water?!?! 
 

guess I’ll have to save the bumping for the locks then!

[Mike Hurley]

1 hour ago, LilMissMolly said:

you mean it’s not like bumper cars on water?!?! 
 

 

Have you been watching Tim and Pru?

[LadyG]

On 20/03/2023 at 18:34, harrybsmith said:

Another thing to bear in mind (because I've not seen it mentioned much) is wet film thickness, it's very difficult to achieve the specified wet film thickness for many epoxy blackings with a roller, so few do. This makes it worse. 

Well, I ordered enough epoxy to do the hull as recommended by vendor for a ten percent longer boat, so I just kept going, it should in theory be covered to correct thickness plus twenty five percent. I just had the correct type of roller, four inch rollers and a cheap brush set. No problem.