Jump to content

Fuel tank portable thief pump for water/sludge removal and checking.


DandV

Featured Posts

The charitable trust that I crew for has a stable of about 8 vintage and veteran classic racing keel boats but all with auxiliary engines.

The only way to remove accumulated water and sludge from the bottom of the fuel tanks is via the fill fitting.

For most of the boats I doubt it is ever done.

 

At present I have a brass lift pump similar to the engine oil extract pump  fitted on beta engines with a copper tube on the suction side.

It would be great if we could have one per boat for the skippers to perform the check every six months.

The local chandlers are doing a special in universal fuel lines, Looks like standard outboard fuel line minus the dry break couplings at each end.

What are the collective thoughts of using these as water sampling kits, perhaps with a length of copper tubing to provide a probe to get to the bottom of things? 

 

 

image.png.febce5d3f4b6ebd9eadda879e2a0ed6a.png

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been advising it on UK narrowboats for years.

 

Check Amazon/Ebay. In the UK those are listed at less than £5, and they seem to use a clear hose, so the operator can see what they are pumping. They are listed under "Syphon pumps" although I doubt you can use them as syphons.

Edited by Tony Brooks
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Been advising it on UK narrowboats for years.

 

Check Amazon/Ebay. In the UK those are listed at less than £5, and they seem to use a clear hose, so the operator can see what they are pumping. They are listed under "Syphon pumps" although I doubt you can use them as syphons.

 

 

I use one of those for refuelling from Jerry cans at sea.

 

Pump away until the fuel starts to flow and then it syphons perfectly - It does work.

 

Jerry can sits on top of the engine hatch (below the 'gang plank') and syphons into the fuel tank via the filler (yellow rimg)

 

Inked-IMG-1018-LI.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use one of these for refuelling from a jerry can, as our fuel filler makes it very difficult to pour without spillage.

They do work, the pump starts the syphon then it does its own thing, but even with the jerry can about 3 foot above the tank level its very slow.

I use a cheap eBay type electric fuel transfer pump for sucking samples out of the fuel tank.

Clear hose is really good for seeing what is going on, but bog standard plastic hose goes very hard quite quickly when exposed to diesel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if the tank filler is vertical one can use a length of rigid pipe like 15mm speedfit or whatever. Suck on one end for a short time then block with thumb. lift out and deposit contents in jam jar. 

 

It can be useful to smell the diesel as well as eyeball it. 

Sometimes if it is rough or moisture laden it is remarkably foul smelling.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, magnetman said:

if the tank filler is vertical one can use a length of rigid pipe like 15mm speedfit or whatever. Suck on one end for a short time then block with thumb. lift out and deposit contents in jam jar. 

 

It can be useful to smell the diesel as well as eyeball it. 

Sometimes if it is rough or moisture laden it is remarkably foul smelling.

 

 

 

 

I think I prefer the little bulb pump, with its tubes, and a clear PET lemonade bottle all for about £8.

 

Let the fuel settle, decant the "clear and bright" back into the tank with the biggest problem then being discarding the skunge.

The first time I did it on our then 8 year old narrowboat, and on the similarity aged fuel tank on the yacht I needed more then one 1.5 litre bottles to get to "clear and bright" There was free water with skunge, sloshing round in the bottom of the tank waiting to be gulped into the fuel line.

 

After a couple of six monthly repeats, it came down to about 5mm of grubby water, some rust particles, and suprisingly sometimes sand particles, with about 100mm to 200mm of cloudy sometimes grey diesel.

But if you can get water down through the tank vent or fill point expect more.

Foul smelling fuel plus skunge is generally down to diesel bug, both alive and dead. Dosing does not get rid of desiel bug detritus, it just kills it. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never had diesel bug in the tank but did get some diesel from coal boat albeit with a low tank and it was very rough. I was willing to take the risk he did say it was low. It went in a 20 litre carrier and I was going to put it through a diesel heater. 

It was remarkably rough considering there was about 6 inches left in his big tank ! The stink was enough to make one retch. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect narrowboat fuel tanks are very efficient in condensing out the water content in the make up air, as fuel is consumed.

At about 12 gm of H20 per m3, at 20deg C and 60% RH of make up air, equaling 1000l  fuel consumed,  water  will build up from this source alone,  unless removed.

Most external boat breathers will also suffer from some rain water bounce ingress during heavy rainfall events.

Water in supplied fuel is generally the result of a failure upstream, rather then routine, and generally manifests itself with a string of silent engines, or misfiring engines leading back to the supplier.

From experience, not a good time to be the offenders company representative. Hence my sensitivity to such matters.

 

The volumes of free water I have have observed on the two boat tanks I have routinely extracted tank bottoms over a few years now, are consistent with the bulk of the water arriving in the make up air as fuel is consumed. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, DandV said:

The volumes of free water I have have observed on the two boat tanks I have routinely extracted tank bottoms over a few years now, are consistent with the bulk of the water arriving in the make up air as fuel is consumed. 

 

In no way would I say you are definitely wrong, but in the UK, time and time again, it has been found that poorly sealed flush fuel filler caps are arguably the major factor. That is why I try to get all boaters to check the seal is in good condition and to drain any water from the tank regularly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Got a little bit of water in my tank (took 200 litres of water out)

 

 

 

Small Size Picture.jpg

200 litres of water in the fuel tank was big big trouble just waiting for the opportunity to maximise the consequences.

That was more then make up air condensate.

Any idea of its ingress point?

 

I was called in more then once to investigate water in boat fuel tanks by customers alleging that it was supplied wet.

Horizontal fuel caps in a depression on the deck, even one with a broken O ring seal. Others with the breather well within the wave splash zone.

 

With water in car fuel tanks, the first question  was, Is your car a PA Vauxhall or a Triumph Herald? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a lot to be said for a day tank manually pumped from the main tank and with a glass bowl separator. BS scheme don't like the glass bit. 

It seems wise to be able to eyeball it and work out if a problem is appearing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

In no way would I say you are definitely wrong, but in the UK, time and time again, it has been found that poorly sealed flush fuel filler caps are arguably the major factor. That is why I try to get all boaters to check the seal is in good condition and to drain any water from the tank regularly.

I was sensitive to fill, (and breather) locations and the fill point seals.

I suspect we may have taken water though through the breather point in those badly leaking short T&M locks. And as the boat had done several traverses of this canal before we bought it, that might have explained much of the quantity of water we got out on our first time. 

Certainly those locks, or one of them, put a lot of water in the engine hole where I was greatful for a loan of Nightwatch's? wet vax to efficiently extract it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, DandV said:

200 litres of water in the fuel tank was big big trouble just waiting for the opportunity to maximise the consequences.

 

It did - falling tide - both engines stopped - as we drifted over a sand bank- lifeboat called - 'too busy to come' - let off flares - attracted attention from a ski-boat who towed us back into the channel where we anchored up.

 

Cause was a combination of failures.

Blocked raw water filter due to being sat in leaf detritus in the marina.

Impellor stripped

Engine boiled  'melting' a hose

Raw water running into engine room

Crack in the inspection hatch of the fuel tank

2000 litres water in the bilges

200 litres of water in a 900 litre 'keel' fuel tank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.