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Can a sea going dutch barge sail on uk canal network?


legepe

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13 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks for the clarification David. 

I've seen overplated and heavy boats struggle in some places, in fact I dragged myself on the ashby and elsewhere (and I'm only 2ft draft I think), but the OP is not interested in those sorts of places. Also, the fuel boats must even deeper and they manage to get around. 

So 3ft would be a reasonable max draft to get around most of the wide waterways. 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thats why I mentioned those- they look as if they could cross the channel or the Irish sea in calm weather, although personally I would want a decent engine if I did that, and of course that could get very expensive.

 

But all that is a very different nautical beast to the OPs 70ft barge idea. This is why I think some signficant compromises are needed.

 

I watched a youtube video of a yatch where the owners took the mast down, lifted the keel and cruised the french canals. 

Not that I'm imagining we'll be seeing too many yachts with lowered masts cruising the L+L any time soon.

 

 

 

Not wanting to be a negative nancy in relation to this admirable enterprise, but that wheelhouse does look a tad high (and wide) for some of the canal bridges on the L+L?

 

 

It is actually much lower than you would think. Around 6ft6 off the water with everything down.

Boat is only 10ft6 beam so not particularly wide.

People do think it is bigger than that but it actually isn't.

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23 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It is actually much lower than you would think. Around 6ft6 off the water with everything down.

Boat is only 10ft6 beam so not particularly wide.

People do think it is bigger than that but it actually isn't.

 

 

I would not have thought it possible that roof could be less than 7ft off the water, that's like some sort of optical illusion.  

 

But to be honest this line of research, as fascinating as it is, is losing out to a more recent one, which is yachts. If I do get bored of the UK waterways in a few years, my next move might well be a yacht. I've always been fascinated by the sea, and I think I might quite like bobbing about and dodging whales.

Since it looks as if I'll have a dutch passport before the year is out, the meditteranean would be open without any restrictions as a potential winter cruising area.

I'm starting to wonder whether the hardships and the discomfort and the long sleepless nights of a solo sailor might really be so bad.  

I think I might need locking up tbh.

 

26 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

 

That whole crowd will be up at Ellesmere Port for easter. 

 

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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It actually is that low. It really doesn't look like it but I did take that photo from the dinghy which is obviously low down in the water.

 

For yachts one needs to be aware of the basic minimum comfort levels. Unless you are looking at a big one you need to be sure that it has been very well executed and made to live on.

 

Believe it or not my boat has 5 separate stainless steel fresh water tanks in addition to a settling tank and manifold of filters plus it is fully insulated and has a coal fire. Also 3 beds under that front deck with full 6ft3 inch headroom. We also have a Shires lavatory flushing from a cistern into a holding tank which can be either discharged overboard or pumped out from shoreside services.

 

These things matter when you live in an unusually small space.

 

It can become uncomfortable quite quickly if the basics are not sorted out and preferably sorted out very well from when the boat was built.

 

It is very difficult to retrofit these things.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Tony1 said:

But to be honest this line of research, as fascinating as it is, is losing out to a more recent one, which is yachts.

 

There really are some very nice and well appointed yachts (but very different to the traditional wood panelling and solid fuel stove of a canal boat)

 

The Med can be surprisingly rough - coming back from Croatia and around the bottom of Italy we got into a horrible sea and after about 8 hours of not moving (except up down and sideways) we gave up and ran into Sicily for shelter. 

 

 

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On 17/03/2023 at 10:20, legepe said:

Thanks very much for all your comments by highlighting some very basic issues with this barge, and also helping me realise - Im completely out of my depth!

I will try to learn a bit more about things before making any decision to buy either a sea going or canal worthy boat/barge

All the best to you all and thanks again!

Here is the listing for it if anyone is interested: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165943917387?hash=item26a3073b4b:g:bXEAAOSwPoVj7jMt

That advert shows all the hallmarks of a boat that has been allowed to get into a rough condition, then tarted up for sale.

Study the photo of the stove, it's filthy there is thick muck on the stove fan, the wall behind could be showing damp.

Claims of repainting the cabin, shame the paint ran out!

The comment that the windows and hatches were now sealed, so how long have they been leaking?

In all, that amount of money will buy a better narrowboat.

 

Bod.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There really are some very nice and well appointed yachts (but very different to the traditional wood panelling and solid fuel stove of a canal boat)

 

The Med can be surprisingly rough - coming back from Croatia and around the bottom of Italy we got into a horrible sea and after about 8 hours of not moving (except up down and sideways) we gave up and ran into Sicily for shelter. 

 

 

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I feel that liveaboard yachting would be a tremendously challenging lifestyle, but it might also also very rewarding (at times). 

A twin engined motorboat would be great in some ways, as you can just blat along the coast at 20-30 knots, nipping from one harbour to another even in slightly rough weather- so you are rarely caught at sea in bad conditions. 

But a properly prepared yacht can cross the Atlantic in reasonable weather, and sail power does have that romantic appeal- and wind power is free, of course- apart from the upkeep of the sails and rigging etc.  

But as you pointed out in another thread, mooring a yacht can end up being very expensive when taken over a year- and with the very changeable weather in the UK, you might end up seeking out a marina/harbour on most days. 

I've only tried sailing a couple of times, and that was 30 years ago, and I think I am falling into the trap of over-glamourising it. Its easy to underestimate how wet and miserable it can be at times- the sheer discomfort, the sleep deprivation when sailing solo, living in an even smaller space than a narrowboat, the critical risks of various kinds to you and your vessel that you meet on a daily basis, and the stresses of navigating a rocky coastline with swift tides and windy weather. 

For someone wanting a change from the UK waterways, it would make more sense to try the Irish waterways, or even France if you have an EU passport. But offshore sailing does have a unique appeal, no doubt about that.

 

 

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Ireland looks pretty nice. No idea what its like if one intended to live on the boat but the loughs and the islands and all that look most pleasant.

 

Never been and never will as I like Englandland.

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51 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Ireland looks pretty nice. No idea what its like if one intended to live on the boat but the loughs and the islands and all that look most pleasant.

 

Never been and never will as I like Englandland.

 

There is a significant liveaboard community on the Irish waterways, so it must be physically possible, but I would guess that there isn't anything like the level of infrastructure that we have on the UK canals, with water points, elsan, rubbish disposal etc. 

Nowt wrong with England, of course- travelling certainly isn't for everyone. In fact I suspect a majority of UK travellers to Spain are more interested in the weather than in the local architecture and culture. 

But for some people travelling is quite a big thing, and Europe offers a huge variety of cities, scenery, sights, cuisines, and experiences- which is why so many UK people still travel there despite the restrictions of being a third country.

 

Apologies in advance here- I don't want this to sound like a criticism in any way, although I feel it might- but to have never visited any European countries because being in England is fine (which it is), feels almost like feels like having a dozen restaurants in your town, but only ever eating at one of them, and rejecting the other places because you don't like the pictures of the food in their menus.

The taste of the food in the other places might be really good. 

Its not about one place being better than another, but more about enjoying variety- and that said, I can understand that not everyone is attracted to the idea of a wide variety.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I have been to France, Spain, Switzerland and Germany. I don't find them all that interesting really. 

 

Everyone is different in this regard. 

 

Ah, my apologies, I misread your comment 'never have been, never will' to refer to any overseas travel, and you of course meant Ireland specifically.

 

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I reckon there is a lot to be said for a trailable boat, Wilderness or something like that. Our boat is in France but parts of the system are not connected, Brittany for example and the Canal de Midi is a long way down the Rhone and even longer coming back (its the current innit) 

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Here's a bit of a whimsical but potentially suitable craft: 

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/sailing-yachts-motor-sailer-for-sale/716167

 

A 1960s 30 foot Broom GRP motorboat that's been converted to a motor sailer whose masts are easily foldable for inland waterways.

Bit of a project, but lots of work apparently done, and only £17k.

I bet by the time you've bought new sails and standing rigging, and done some upgrades to the accommodation and fixtures so that it was properly seaworthy, you'd be out another £25k at least.

But you'd end up with a really unusual boat, capable of offshore crossings and also cruising wide canals. So you could take it over to France or Ireland for a few months on the canals, and then sail it back!  

All that said, there are some more modern 30 foot yacht designs with 'easy-folding' masts.  

 

46 minutes ago, Bee said:

I reckon there is a lot to be said for a trailable boat, Wilderness or something like that. Our boat is in France but parts of the system are not connected, Brittany for example and the Canal de Midi is a long way down the Rhone and even longer coming back (its the current innit) 

 

I must admit, I like the sound of that idea. 

Keeping a boat seaworthy and safe to go offshore seems to be quite an expensive thing, with significant repairs and replacements almost every year.

Not to mention the amount of knowledge and equipment you need to skipper an offshore yacht even as far as France. 

If all the OP wants to do is cross the channel or the Irish Sea, it would probably be cheaper to buy a 30-40ft canal boat and get it transported.

That said, the transport is not an expense you would want to have every year.

 

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The answer is to get the smallest boat that you can possibly live on. 

 

I tried this a number of yars ago with a 24ft x 8ft6 Viksund motorsailer for residential use. It was too small although this was mainly a heating problem. Difficult to fit a fire in there which will stay in as the space is too limited. 

 

Obviously I now have the perfect small and luxurious boat but the idea of a solar powered small seagoing craft is quite appealing as a way of getting away from the diesel. 

 

I've never quite worked out why the long pole thing with flappy pieces of canvas on it would be of any use but it takes all sorts. I guess these people generally have no appreciation of how pleasant it can be to get onto a navigable river and go inland. 

 

Looks like too much agro to me.

 

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14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The answer is to get the smallest boat that you can possibly live on. 

 

I tried this a number of yars ago with a 24ft x 8ft6 Viksund motorsailer for residential use. It was too small although this was mainly a heating problem. Difficult to fit a fire in there which will stay in as the space is too limited. 

 

Obviously I now have the perfect small and luxurious boat but the idea of a solar powered small seagoing craft is quite appealing as a way of getting away from the diesel. 

 

I've never quite worked out why the long pole thing with flappy pieces of canvas on it would be of any use but it takes all sorts. I guess these people generally have no appreciation of how pleasant it can be to get onto a navigable river and go inland. 

 

Looks like too much agro to me.

 

 

Could I perchance tempt you with this bit of plastic frippery, Mr M?

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/faircraft-33-ac-for-sale/693332

 

Its only 3ft draft, and if you tweak the windscreen you could get the air draft down to about 6ft. 

It'll only do 8 knots, so you cant outrun any bad weather, but it could get across the channel no bother, and its pretty spacious inside. 

 

I reckon you'd cut a very dashing figure cruising through Skipton in this little beastie- perhaps with a couple of lady friends in bikinis sunbathing on the foredeck/roof thingy. 

Which is not to say that a couple of male friends might not also want to sunbathe in bikinis, of course. 

We'll have no bikini-ist discrimination here. 

 

Edited by Tony1
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I'll stick with my Dulcinea thanks ! 

 

Put the tape measure on it today actually as never measured the air draft. It is 6ft4 with gear down and fire chimney removed. 

 

I don't do dashing. 

 

Ladies in bikinis could work. 

 

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41 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The answer is to get the smallest boat that you can possibly live on. 

 

I tried this a number of yars ago with a 24ft x 8ft6 Viksund motorsailer for residential use. It was too small although this was mainly a heating problem. Difficult to fit a fire in there which will stay in as the space is too limited. 

 

Obviously I now have the perfect small and luxurious boat but the idea of a solar powered small seagoing craft is quite appealing as a way of getting away from the diesel. 

 

I've never quite worked out why the long pole thing with flappy pieces of canvas on it would be of any use but it takes all sorts. I guess these people generally have no appreciation of how pleasant it can be to get onto a navigable river and go inland. 

 

Looks like too much agro to me.

 

We spend weeks on end in the finer weather on our 28ft sailboat. I wouldn't want to go much smaller than that. The proportions of headroom to length look all wrong below this length imho. 

 

I wouldn't want to live on it full time in this country. It's not insulated for starters. I spose it would be doable in warmer countries. 

 

Dr Bob is, the one for Greek sailing. I think he went via biscay. 

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