Can a sea going dutch barge sail on uk canal network?

[howardang]

2 hours ago, Bacchus said:

 

 

The requirements of inland boats and sea-going boats are very, very different, but there are a few that sort of meet in the middle (and will be a bit of a compromise; they won't be best of breed in either scenario, but may get you through). The Peter Nichols Hufflers come to mind - they can go pretty much anywhere and do most things with a good degree of competence. They won't get you on a narrow canal (as above) but should be okay on the wider ones (the manufacturer is based in Braunston). Peter Nichols also make some sturdy sea-going barges, as well as narrow-boats and inland boats.

 

Also mentioned above, the sea is a big, dangerous and rightly scary place, but every round-the-world-yachtsman was a beginner once. Don't be afraid to learn, but don't think you can just hop into a boat and point it at the horizon (at least not if you're planning on coming back...)

 

Maybe also try to watch "all at sea" with Timothy and Shane Spall on their sea-going barge Princess Matilda. Again, not a (UK) canal boat, but she is very at home on bigger rivers (I have seen her on the Thames a few times). Also, maybe also consider the inland waterways of mainland Europe which tend to be designed for bigger traffic than ours.

 

One final also - big is tempting, small is better. A boating lifestyle is generally about learning to make do with the least you can get away with, not trying to replicate a luxurious land-based lifestyle. Many 30-35' yachts spend years circumnavigating the globe...

This reply sums up many of the points which I was also going to say but I will only add that I do hope that you think long and hard before you spend a lot of time and money, not to mention potentially risk your life while chasing a dream. Yes, everyone has to start somewhere but please take some time to get experience of what you may be taking on. I also come from the same part of the world (Brough) and may I suggest that you may find it very useful to have a chat with some of the moorers at Hull Marina or at Beverley Beck,  who may be able to give you some assistance and point you in the right direction. 

Finally, I would also say that around the coast you will find the remnants of many a pipe dream, left by people who had the same wishes but who found that they had vastly underestimated the need to walk before you can run.

 

Good luck

 

Howard

[Guest]

1 hour ago, howardang said:

This reply sums up many of the points which I was also going to say but I will only add that I do hope that you think long and hard before you spend a lot of time and money, not to mention potentially risk your life while chasing a dream. Yes, everyone has to start somewhere but please take some time to get experience of what you may be taking on. I also come from the same part of the world (Brough) and may I suggest that you may find it very useful to have a chat with some of the moorers at Hull Marina or at Beverley Beck,  who may be able to give you some assistance and point you in the right direction. 

Finally, I would also say that around the coast you will find the remnants of many a pipe dream, left by people who had the same wishes but who found that they had vastly underestimated the need to walk before you can run.

 

Good luck

 

Howard

 

Off topic - had to google that.

 

Now there's a canal/waterway I never knew existed.

[LadyG]

If I wanted to buy a  dutch barge it would be because i knew enough to know quite a lot about them. The picture shown is not my idea of something sea going. It looks like a boat designed to look similar but not built to a sea going specification .

[magnetman]

There be sharks in those there waters with tins of red paint. 

[DandV]

For boats and their occupants the most dangerous parts of the sea are at the interface with land.

In places the unseen bottom of the sea gets too close to the surface to safely navigate over the top. 

These shallows concentrate the tides,  other shipping, and make the waves even more chaotic and threatening.

I think  land masses even affect fog concentrations. 

Proximity to land also increases the concentration of debris, debris that is attracted to propellers and cooling water inlets. 

 

Hence coastal voyages are especially hazardous. 

 

Engine shutdowns can easily be life threatening in inshore waters, but on canals and inland rivers they are  generally only inconvenient. 

 

Ocean going yachts benifit by having two means of propulsion, Alan's catamaran probably has three, and experienced yachtsman have been remarkably adaptive in rigging jury rigs, to keep themselves out in deepwater, until assistance can be provided.

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by DandV

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

yes I cant see any reason why it wouldn't get to Stourport, but Im sure no further than Tewkesbury on the Warwickshire Avon for a few yards from the Avon lock. 

 

I imagine it could get up the Bristol Avon from Bristol/ Avonmouth  to Bath as well, but not up the locks at Bath. 

 

As for its sea worthiness, I have no idea. 

 

 

There are classifications for powered vessels, and for sailing boats. Not sure about the one illustrated, but it's not what I'd want to be on in a Force eight.

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

34 minutes ago, DandV said:

For boats and their occupants the most dangerous parts of the sea are at the interface with land.

In places the unseen bottom of the sea gets too close to the surface to safely navigate over the top. 

These shallows concentrate the tides,  other shipping, and make the waves even more chaotic and threatening.

I think  land masses even affect fog concentrations. 

Proximity to land also increases the concentration of debris, debris that is attracted to propellers and cooling water inlets. 

 

Hence coastal voyages are especially hazardous. 

 

Engine shutdowns can easily be life threatening in inshore waters, but on canals and inland rivers they are  generally only inconvenient. 

 

Ocean going yachts benifit by having two means of propulsion, Alan's catamaran probably has three, and experienced yachtsman have been remarkably adaptive in rigging jury rigs, to keep themselves out in deepwater, until assistance can be provided.

 

He could always put a mast and sails back on, it still has the Lee Boards

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, DandV said:

Alan's catamaran probably has three

 

 

Correct - we have not only the sails, but have 2x engines as well, and then there is also the 'jury-rigged' option, we also have the tender with an outboard that will (slowly) pull us out into deeper water, and of course we have a VHF radio to call up for assistance / tow.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Ronaldo47]

48 minutes ago, DandV said:

Ocean going yachts benifit by having two means of propulsion, Alan's catamaran probably has three, and experienced yachtsman have been remarkably adaptive in rigging jury rigs, to keep themselves out in deepwater, until assistance can be provided.

 

 

[magnetman]

Is that Ashley's book? 

[Ronaldo47]

No.

 

 

[magnetman]

Probably no rude words in it then.

[MtB]

24 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Probably no rude words in it then.

 

Fid off...

 

 

[magnetman]

No it is the groove between the strands of a laid rope. 

[MtB]

Now you're just being crude! 

[howardang]

13 hours ago, magnetman said:

Is that Ashley's book? 

Not Ashley's book which is all hand drawings of the various knots and bends. It is a very useful and definitive  bookshelf reference book but at times it is not the easiest book to follow, and it is not cheap compared to some others.

 

Howard

Edited March 16, 2023 by howardang

[magnetman]

I had a copy of Ashley's book of knots yars ago. It was new and expensive and incredibly badly bound. It fell apart and was binned. Sadly. Older copies might be alright. 

 

My favourite book is Knots and Splices by Cyrus L Day. Have got an old hardback edition its a nice little book. 

 

 

[Iain_S]

On 14/03/2023 at 21:22, Tony Brooks said:

The OP says UK canals, so it should fit the Caledonian and Crinan, but not sure about the lowland canals.

It won't fit the lowland canals. E&G Union is max beam 12' (originally 12'6") and the Forth and Clyde locks are nominally 66', but effectively shorter due to walkways on the inside of most bottom gates. The 64' narrowboats struggle on some of them.

[enigmatic]

It'd be good for the Ely Ouse too (a few big old Dutch barges permanently moored down there), the River Trent, much of the Thames and at least some of the Aire and Calder

 

You'd have to be proficient at sea navigation to get between them though, and at 72' long it's too long even for some canals like the Stainforth and Keadby, which was built for really big barges.

[legepe]

I would like to go and see this barge to at least consider the possibility of acquiring it, however I feel I really would not know where to start in knowing what to look for primarily in it having any issues or to know the true value of it. The sellers agent/friend is asking £65k

Im informed it has been inspected and blacked Jan-23, wouldn’t you think an owner with intentions of selling it normally have a survey report done at this time?

Does anyone know what I should be looking out for? and is it worth me reading The Barge Buyers Handbook https://barges.org/knowledgebase/buying/273-barge-buyers-handbook or something similar?

[Tony Brooks]

It is normal for the buyer to commission the survey. Relying on the vendor's survey opens you up to all sorts of possibilities from downright forgery of the survey to the surveyor being the vendor's friend or having an interest in getting the boat sold.

 

"Inspected" is not the same as "tested", it just means someone cast an eye over it.

[magnetman]

There be sharks in them waters.

[Bee]

2 hours ago, legepe said:

I would like to go and see this barge to at least consider the possibility of acquiring it, however I feel I really would not know where to start in knowing what to look for primarily in it having any issues or to know the true value of it. The sellers agent/friend is asking £65k

 

 

Im informed it has been inspected and blacked Jan-23, wouldn’t you think an owner with intentions of selling it normally have a survey report done at this time?

 

Does anyone know what I should be looking out for? and is it worth me reading The Barge Buyers Handbook https://barges.org/knowledgebase/buying/273-barge-buyers-handbook or something similar?

 

 

 

By all means go and take a look, buy the Barge Buyers Handbook then have a wander up and down bits of the Thames, K&A, lower Grand Union and also on Apollo Duck and anywhere that Dutch barges are to be found and learn as much as you can. Trying to get a mooring for this boat - or any boat these days can be tough and expensive. The boat you are looking at will very likely be around about 100 years old, possibly over 100 years as it was a sailing barge. That is a big area of metal and a hell of a lot of rivets underwater or, more likely a lot of overplating. I would buy a narrowboat without a survey even if that is risky but I would not even think of buying this boat without a proper survey and that should be done by your own surveyor. I would encourage anybody to follow their dreams but finding out as much as you can is just plain common sense. Most people who buy boats do so in spite of a lot of sensible advice not to and ignoring the opinions of more experienced people. For many of us it turns out OK in the end and we learn a lot but for some people it ends in real heartbreak and a lot of money down the drain. Good Luck PS, just love the rudder assembly using a car rear differential and half an axle.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Bee

[howardang]

3 hours ago, legepe said:

I would like to go and see this barge to at least consider the possibility of acquiring it, however I feel I really would not know where to start in knowing what to look for primarily in it having any issues or to know the true value of it. The sellers agent/friend is asking £65k

 

 

Im informed it has been inspected and blacked Jan-23, wouldn’t you think an owner with intentions of selling it normally have a survey report done at this time?

 

Does anyone know what I should be looking out for? and is it worth me reading The Barge Buyers Handbook https://barges.org/knowledgebase/buying/273-barge-buyers-handbook or something similar?

 

 

 

For goodness sake, please stop the pipe dreams and be more realistic. I hate to say this,  by the very nature of your questions so far it is patently obvious that with all due respect your journey to see the barge would be an utter waste of your time because of your lack of knowledge and experience. If you are really wanting to get involved with boats, start more modestly and don't waste your money on a pipedream.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide  but please think very long and hard and look at other more realistic ways of getting into boating before you make what could be an expensive and time wasting mistake.

 

Howard

[Tam & Di]

21 hours ago, legepe said:

I would like to go and see this barge to at least consider the possibility of acquiring it, however I feel I really would not know where to start in knowing what to look for primarily in it having any issues or to know the true value of it.

 

Pictures of this vessel obviously clarify your initial post about wanting to buy a sea-going Dutch barge that can cruise UK canals, but unfortunately it does not really satisfy either desire. It will have crossed the Channel, but that will have been a one-off on a very calm day - it is not in any real sense of the term a sea going craft, and you'd not get insurance cover for that use. But nor is it capable of cruising UK canals. The spud pole (the black thing at the front) is higher than the wheelhouse and pretty much restricts you to the Thames, or lower reaches of other east coast rivers. Do take howardangs comments seriously - find some way to get involved in some actual boating and take it from there rather than wasting your time and the time of the owner of this vessel by travelling down to see it.

 

Tam

Edited March 17, 2023 by Tam & Di