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The National Bargee Travellers Association has slammed plans to raise licence fees on canals like the Kennet and Avon


Alan de Enfield

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5 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Andrew why would they bother? You have been boating for years, you know that BW/CRT always take the easy route so it won't change expect a good rogering shortly from them

And your solution to CRT needing to raise more money is...?

 

-- I know, raise the fees for everyone the same. Unfortunately for you most boaters are likely to disagree with you, so bend over... 😉

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10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And yet it is still a requirement in the 2022 T&Cs that you agree to before the issuing of the licence.

 

10.1. Each boat registered for use on Our Waterways is given a unique index number that is linked to the Licence. You must display the Boat’s name, index number and the Licence on both sides of the Boat so that they are always easily visible from the towpath or on the Waterway

 

I thought that CART had dropped that requirement in practice, regardless of what the terms say?

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10 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I thought that CART had dropped that requirement in practice, regardless of what the terms say?

 

They cannot 'drop it' without the revocation of the byelaws. It is a legal requirement , they can of course, make a decision to not enforce the law.

 

 

Display of licences 

(1) The owner of a pleasure boat or commercial vessel shall not knowingly cause or permit to be used on a canal any pleasure boat or commercial vessel in respect of which a pleasure boat licence or commercial vessel licence has been issued unless the licence for the time being in force is displayed on the pleasure boat or commercial vessel in such a manner and position as to be clearly visible from outside the pleasure boat or commercial vessel at all times.

(2) No person shall knowingly cause or permit to be concealed a pleasure boat licence or commercial vessel licence required to be displayed on a pleasure boat or commercial vessel in accordance with this Bye-law

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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3 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I can't see any place but a court doing that, for it to matter. Other than that, private property is not part of CRT's domain.

 

 

That's true of course, if your boat was in your back garden for instance. If on the other hand it was in a marina which had to abide by certain conditions to be allowed to connect to CRT's waterway, that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

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6 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I thought that CART had dropped that requirement in practice, regardless of what the terms say?

 

I think they came unstuck with the notion to not enforce the legal requirements because there are places where their own staff do enforce those requirements. For instance the staff operating locks on the Severn will require to observe your boat name and licence before they lock you through. You don't want to be scaling the ladder out of the lock to show them your details on the CRT website via an iPhone.

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2 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

They dropped it then put it back on the basis that the busybodies were complaining that they needed to access CRT's licence checker only to find that the boat was licenced.

The licence checker no longer exists. 

 

Presumably this was because of a problem of some sort. GDPR  maybe. Licence status is between the boat owner and the navigation authority and nothing to do with anyone else. 

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3 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

That's true of course, if your boat was in your back garden for instance. If on the other hand it was in a marina which had to abide by certain conditions to be allowed to connect to CRT's waterway, that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

 

The marina abides by a contract. It's a business contract. Nothing to do with boaters. And a licence in the marina has nothing to do with the law.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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16 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I can't see any place but a court doing that, for it to matter. Other than that, private property is not part of CRT's domain.

 

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The licence checker no longer exists. 

 

Presumably this was because of a problem of some sort. GDPR  maybe. Licence status is between the boat owner and the navigation authority and nothing to do with anyone else. 

I was told it was taken down because the busybodies were complaining that boats were not displaying licences ...

Edited by Allan(nb Albert)
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15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

They cannot 'drop it' without the revocation of the byelaws. It is a legal requirement , they can of course, make a decision to not enforce the law.

 

 

Display of licences 

(1) The owner of a pleasure boat or commercial vessel shall not knowingly cause or permit to be used on a canal any pleasure boat or commercial vessel in respect of which a pleasure boat licence or commercial vessel licence has been issued unless the licence for the time being in force is displayed on the pleasure boat or commercial vessel in such a manner and position as to be clearly visible from outside the pleasure boat or commercial vessel at all times.

(2) No person shall knowingly cause or permit to be concealed a pleasure boat licence or commercial vessel licence required to be displayed on a pleasure boat or commercial vessel in accordance with this Bye-law

 

Which is why I said *in practice*, Alan... 😉

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13 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The licence checker no longer exists. 

 

Presumably this was because of a problem of some sort. GDPR  maybe. Licence status is between the boat owner and the navigation authority and nothing to do with anyone else. 

According to CRT, the licence checker was dropped because people kept reporting licensed boats that just weren't displaying the licence (as CRT had previously said they could) or already under enforcement and just wasted their time. With my mooring agreement this year was a reminder that displaying the licence was part of the t&cs.

Endless repetition of what the law says about displaying numbers etc is as useful as a chocolate lock key. If laws are unenforceable all they do is bring the law into disrepute. It's posturing , not anything meaningful.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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25 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

The marina abides by a contract. It's a business contract. Nothing to do with boaters. And a licence in the marina has nothing to do with the law.

 

 

Sure, but the marina's contract says something equivalent to "all your moorers must have valid CRT licences" (with the exception of a few older basins that had historic covenants with canal owners granting them access to the water from that canal for any purpose, and marinas not connected to CRT waterways), and the marina's contract with boaters gives them the right to kick them out for various reasons including boaters' refusal to pay for licence fees jeopardising the marina's access to CRT waters.

 

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30 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

The marina abides by a contract. It's a business contract. Nothing to do with boaters. And a licence in the marina has nothing to do with the law.

 

 

 

 

If it's stated in the contract that boats in that marina must be licensed, then it has the strength of contract law. If the marina owner states in his mooring terms and conditions that a boat must carry a CRT license before it is allowed to enter the marina, then it has the strength of contract law. Should the boat owner decide he's not prepared to pay for a license whilst in the marina he would be told to leave because he was in breach of the terms and conditions. He would then of course have to get a license in order to leave the marina. 

 

Keith

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5 hours ago, IanD said:

And your solution to CRT needing to raise more money is...?

 

-- I know, raise the fees for everyone the same. Unfortunately for you most boaters are likely to disagree with you, so bend over... 😉

I have secured a mooring off CRT waters  so no you will be getting the rogering not me. I did say to you that I wasn't go to pay, so I will moving later this year

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3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have secured a mooring off CRT waters  so no you will be getting the rogering not me. I did say to you that I wasn't go to pay, so I will moving later this year

 

The Broads?

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8 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have secured a mooring off CRT waters  so no you will be getting the rogering not me. I did say to you that I wasn't go to pay, so I will moving later this year

Since like the majority of boaters I'll have a narrowboat with a home mooring, I don't expect to get rogered -- or to run away to avoid coughing up... 😉

Edited by IanD
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I'm already being rogered by the CRT for £12.5k per year but as this includes a luxury inner London residential mooring for my bunker am not moaning. 

Plus another grand for the council tax! 

 

All claimable in future if needed on the DWP as housing costs. 

 

Certainly a heck of a lot cheaper than renting one of the flats even if my boat is only about 1/10 of the living space it is 10,000 times better than a house or flat could ever conceivably be. 

 

So yeah. Pay more ya buggers !! ;)

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42 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not necessarily - there are several exemptions that allow a boat to go from A-B without having a licence.

They stopped the option of taking out a short term licence from an otherwise unlicensed boat kept in a marina. Whether this applies for a marina A - marina B journey, I don't know.

Trade plates have many restrictions and are not obtainable except by businesses who meet the criteria and need them.

 

What are the exemptions?

Edited by Paul C
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