Best heating methods

[magnetman]

I put a Rayburn MF in a narrow boat some yars ago and had it for 4 winters. Used to burn Homefire hexagons on it and it was fine. 2 radiators and a hot water tank all toasty. 

[peterboat]

12 hours ago, magnetman said:

At one time CPL were doing bags of briquettes made entirely from olive stones. Quite an interesting fuel. 

 

Not sure if they still do it or if the available product has gone into the e coal instead. 

They do Jayne burns them, we bought some really cheap from Tesco's so took the lot as no more were in the offing, still have enough to see the winter out.

[Higgs]

33 minutes ago, Puffling said:

I used a lot of Supertherm last year, but if it's true what people say here about the formulation changing, I think I'll stick with Red.

 

Last year, I used Newburn. I thought it was a pretty good fuel. New to me this year is Supertherm, it has been easy to get in most places. The ash hasn't been excessive, but once-a-day removal is normal. The only fuel I wouldn't buy, after having tried it, is the cheopo 10kg stuff from Asda and Lidl. If anyone enjoys lots of ash and the fire being smothered, it's the best stuff on the market for doing that, I found.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Higgs

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I put a Rayburn MF in a narrow boat some yars ago and had it for 4 winters. Used to burn Homefire hexagons on it and it was fine. 2 radiators and a hot water tank all toasty. 

The problem is as you know the briquettes of today aren't the same as yesteryear 

[Higgs]

I'm new to chainsaws, and was nervous, the first time using it. Now, I like using it and prepping the wood. Cutting the tree limbs into stove-size lengths is the first part. Those pieces are split into sections using a 1.5lb sharpened axe, hit with a lump hammer. I use the same axe to remove the bark - very satisfying. It provides entertainment for the passing walkers. Although, I heard one say - "oh, I couldn't live like that."

 

 

[cuthound]

14 hours ago, LadyG said:

I think the solid fuel stove is cheaper, but whatever you do you cannot control the prices.

Wood may be free and available in some areas but not everywhere.

I use £35-40 worth of logs per week plus £15-30 per week smokeless, I could not contemplate supplying my own wood. I would always want dry seasoned wood to keep flue clean.

 

At current prices, and assuming that you use kerosene rather than red diesel in your oil drip stove, then there is probably very little price difference.

 

My Kabola Old Dutch oil stove uses about 0.25 litres per hour on its lowest setting, which usually keeps the boat above 20°C, so at £1.15p per litre costs £48.30 per week.

 

 https://www.gbfuel.co.uk/buy-kerosene-birmingham/

 

Bagged smokeless coal seems to cost about £20 per 25kg bag and when I had shareboats I used to use 2 and a half bags a week, so £50 at current prices.

 

The oil stove has the advantage of being cleaner and more controllable than a coal stove, but requires you to learn how to clean and adjust it properly as few canalside boatyards or "engineers" have the necessary skills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by cuthound
To remove a full stop masquerading as a space.

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

At current prices, and assuming that you use kerosene rather than red diesel in your oil drip stove, then there is probably very little price difference.

 

My Kabola Old Dutch oil stove uses about 0.25 litres per hour on its lowest setting, which usually keeps the boat above 20°C, so at £1.15p per litre costs £48.30 per week.

 

 https://www.gbfuel.co.uk/buy-kerosene-birmingham/

 

Bagged smokeless coal seems to cost about £20 per 25kg bag and when I had shareboats I used to use 2 and a half bags a week, so £50 at current prices.

 

The oil stove has the advantage of being cleaner and more controllable than a coal stove, but requires you to learn how to clean and adjust it properly as few canalside boatyards or "engineers" have the necessary skills.

 

 

A diesel CH system costs the same to run as a drip stove, but doesn't give you a stove inside the boat -- which some would consider an advantage but others would not 😉

 

The standard ones used in boats (Webasto and Eberspacher) have a bit of a reputation for being unreliable and expensive to maintain, they're really adapted truck cab heaters not intended for 24/7 heating duty, and not keen on being cycled on and off all the time -- thought the newer ones are supposedly better for this and can throttle down instead. They can be noisy.

 

Pressure-jet boilers like the Hurricane (and others which may be better) are more akin to domestic oil-fired boilers and are designed for continuous duty, but they're considerably more expensive and usually a bit big for narrowboats (7kW or above) -- but then they just cycle on and off as required, like in a house. Few boaters have these because of the cost.

Edited February 27, 2023 by IanD

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

A diesel CH system costs the same to run as a drip stove, but doesn't give you a stove inside the boat -- which some would consider an advantage but others would not 😉

 

The standard ones used in boats (Webasto and Eberspacher) have a bit of a reputation for being unreliable and expensive to maintain, they're really adapted truck cab heaters not intended for 24/7 heating duty, and not keen on being cycled on and off all the time -- thought the newer ones are supposedly better for this and can throttle down instead. They can be noisy.

 

Pressure-jet boilers like the Hurricane (and others which may be better) are more akin to domestic oil-fired boilers and are designed for continuous duty, but they're considerably more expensive and usually a bit big for narrowboats (7kW or above) -- but then they just cycle on and off as required, like in a house. Few boaters have these because of the cost.

 

I find that my Webasto Thermotop C costs about twice as much to run per hour than the oil drip stove, but heats all of the boat rather than most of it (the heat from the stove never reaches the bedroom at the stern) and can be programmed to come on at set times.

[peterboat]

Just now, cuthound said:

 

I find that my Webasto Thermotop C costs about twice as much to run per hour than the oil drip stove, but heats all of the boat rather than most of it (the heat from the stove never reaches the bedroom at the stern) and can be programmed to come on at set times.

My bubble is similar very efficient especially as it can do radiators as well.

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

A diesel CH system costs the same to run as a drip stove, but doesn't give you a stove inside the boat -- which some would consider an advantage but others would not 😉

 

The standard ones used in boats (Webasto and Eberspacher) have a bit of a reputation for being unreliable and expensive to maintain, they're really adapted truck cab heaters not intended for 24/7 heating duty, and not keen on being cycled on and off all the time -- thought the newer ones are supposedly better for this and can throttle down instead. They can be noisy.

 

Pressure-jet boilers like the Hurricane (and others which may be better) are more akin to domestic oil-fired boilers and are designed for continuous duty, but they're considerably more expensive and usually a bit big for narrowboats (7kW or above) -- but then they just cycle on and off as required, like in a house. Few boaters have these because of the cost.

I am just buying a esse oil fired range cooker with boiler, pressure jet version 

[JemShaun]

Thank you everyone for the many replies, I have plenty to work through.

 

Many thanks again

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I find that my Webasto Thermotop C costs about twice as much to run per hour than the oil drip stove, but heats all of the boat rather than most of it (the heat from the stove never reaches the bedroom at the stern) and can be programmed to come on at set times.

To state the obvious, if it has twice the output it'll cost twice as much per hour to run.. 😉

 

For the same overall heating over the day (in kWh) they'll both burn about the same amount of the same fuel and cost the same, assuming similar efficiencies (about 80% for Webastos IIRC, I expect the stove is similar).

 

Webastos and the like do have the advantage of heating the whole boat, assuming you have multiple radiators -- of course a stove can also do this if also piped to radiators, which some (most?) are.

 

As usual there's no answer to the simple question "which is best", because all heating methods -- including a solid fuel stove/woodburner -- have advantages and disadvantages including cost, cleanliness, convenience, and effectiveness. You need to read up on the facts, decide what matters most to you, and choose whatever suits you best -- which may well be different to what somebody else would choose for themselves... 😉

[Richard10002]

On 25/02/2023 at 22:44, Ianws said:

You said you are looking at fires then said you have a Morso which is great. Are you looking to replace the morso or add to it? 

IMHO The OP was confusing.

 

They are actually asking about fuel, not fires.

[magnetman]

3 hours ago, Higgs said:

I'm new to chainsaws, and was nervous, the first time using it. Now, I like using it and prepping the wood. Cutting the tree limbs into stove-size lengths is the first part. Those pieces are split into sections using a 1.5lb sharpened axe, hit with a lump hammer. I use the same axe to remove the bark - very satisfying. It provides entertainment for the passing walkers. Although, I heard one say - "oh, I couldn't live like that."

 

 

Never had a chainsaw myself. Do have several bowsaws with good blades. You can process a lot of wood with a bowsaw if the blade is never allowed to accumulate rust and is of good quality. 

 

They do vary. 

 

I suppose having 7 bowsaws and about 20 spare new blades is rather odd. 

 

I'm unsure as to the legality of using a chainsaw on a public footpath. I think it might be illegal under a byelaw. 

[bizzard]

My bow saw is 20 odd years old. Same original blade on which I carry out dentistry now and then, settiing and filing the teeth now and then.

[magnetman]

That must be a proper one without these case hardened teeth. 

 

Is it a Jack bow saw by any chance ? 

 

 

I've had a few old blades but never managed to find an original one with no rust on it. Rust is the biggest issue with bowsaw blades. 

I do have some 42 inch Sandvik blades but not able to source a 42 inch frame other than from the USA and its too expensive for shipping .

[bizzard]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

That must be a proper one without these case hardened teeth. 

 

Is it a Jack bow saw by any chance ? 

 

 

I've had a few old blades but never managed to find an original one with no rust on it. Rust is the biggest issue with bowsaw blades. 

I do have some 42 inch Sandvik blades but not able to source a 42 inch frame other than from the USA and its too expensive for shipping .

Keep the blade greased when not in use.

[magnetman]

6 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Keep the blade greased when not in use.

I hang the saw by the fire so it never stays damp. 

 

Good idea about the grease. 

[Higgs]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Never had a chainsaw myself. Do have several bowsaws with good blades. You can process a lot of wood with a bowsaw if the blade is never allowed to accumulate rust and is of good quality. 

 

They do vary. 

 

I suppose having 7 bowsaws and about 20 spare new blades is rather odd. 

 

I'm unsure as to the legality of using a chainsaw on a public footpath. I think it might be illegal under a byelaw. 

 

I did buy a bow saw. So far, I haven't found it to be of use. Thought it would be better than the long wood saw, which I used, before the chainsaw. Since the chainsaw, I haven't found any use for the wood saw, either. I try to cut every piece of wood to the right length for the stove, with the chainsaw. Then split it with the axe and lump hammer. It's all done on the ground, so the work would be uncomfortable and can't be steadied enough for a bow saw. 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Higgs

[magnetman]

16 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I did buy a bow saw. So far, I haven't found it to be of use. Thought it would be better than the long wood saw, which I used, before the chainsaw. Since the chainsaw, I haven't found any use for the wood saw, either. I try to cut every piece of wood to the right size for the stove, with the chainsaw. Then split it with the axe and lump hammer. It's all done on the ground, so the work would be uncomfortable and can't be steadied enough for a bow saw. 

 

 

You do need a saw horse or other secure holder for the wood and thicker pieces need splitting before cutting. Done right a bow saw can process a lot of wood. 

 

I use a cut down optical fibre insulator for my saw horse but freely admit this is a bit unusual. I found it in the cut and modified it. 

 

One of these things cut in half and a vee cut out for the logs to sit in. Works very nicely. I'd not like to use a chainsaw near ground - you will knock out the cutters really fast. 

 

Insulator boot is the top half of this. Brilliant for a saw horse as it is made of some sort of nylon so you don't kill the blade tips. Wooden saw horse you have to be careful with fasteners like screws and bolts as they catch the teeth. 

 

 

It is about 3 feet long and 10 inches diameter. Very stable when stood on end at a length of 16 inches or so. 

[Higgs]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

You do need a saw horse or other secure holder for the wood and thicker pieces need splitting before cutting. Done right a bow saw can process a lot of wood. 

 

I use a cut down optical fibre insulator for my saw horse but freely admit this is a bit unusual. I found it in the cut and modified it. 

 

One of these things cut in half and a vee cut out for the logs to sit in. Works very nicely. I'd not like to use a chainsaw near ground - you will knock out the cutters really fast. 

 

Insulator boot is the top half of this. Brilliant for a saw horse as it is made of some sort of nylon so you don't kill the blade tips. Wooden saw horse you have to be careful with fasteners like screws and bolts as they catch the teeth. 

 

 

 

It is about 3 feet long and 10 inches diameter. Very stable when stood on end at a length of 16 inches or so. 

 

It's a case of not having room for everything I could do with. A saw horse is something I can manage without. And the chainsaw is never used down to the ground. I'll turn a log, after cutting it 3/4 through. 

 

 

[magnetman]

My optical fibre insulator sawhorse takes up about as much room as a chainsaw with the advantage one can not take a bodily appendage off in 5 seconds. 

Plus it is bound to be blatantly illegal to operate a chainsaw on a towpath without 3rd party insurance relating to your work.

[Higgs]

26 minutes ago, magnetman said:

My optical fibre insulator sawhorse takes up about as much room as a chainsaw with the advantage one can not take a bodily appendage off in 5 seconds. 

Plus it is bound to be blatantly illegal to operate a chainsaw on a towpath without 3rd party insurance relating to your work.

 

It isn't illegal, from what I have gleaned  by reading. I also take as much care with my protective equipment as I can, and take regular spells of looking around. Also choosing off-track places. Lots of DIY equipment is dangerous. You have to do your homework and not act recklessly.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Higgs

[magnetman]

Slightly odd that the canal byelaws don't seem to be available. CRT don't want to know but I'm sure I recall that actions involving power tools on towpaths is forbidden. I may have imagined it but I still think chainsaw on towpath contravenes byelaws. 

 

I wonder how one can view the byelaws these days. 

[Puffling]

2 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

It isn't illegal, from what I have gleaned  by reading. I also take as much care with my protective equipment as I can, and take regular spells of looking around. Also choosing off-track places. Lots of DIY equipment is dangerous. You have to do your homework and not act recklessly.

 

 

I'm considering buying a chainsaw for next winter. I've looked at electric ones, which have the advantage of not announcing your presence to all within a 2km range.

 

As well as the protective gear, another boater I met sawing logs by the towpath told me how important a hi-vis vest can be. Walkers see that and switch to  ignore mode, rather than querying if you have a right to be taking wood.

[Higgs]

17 minutes ago, Puffling said:

I'm considering buying a chainsaw for next winter. I've looked at electric ones, which have the advantage of not announcing your presence to all within a 2km range.

 

As well as the protective gear, another boater I met sawing logs by the towpath told me how important a hi-vis vest can be. Walkers see that and switch to  ignore mode, rather than querying if you have a right to be taking wood.

 

Yes, I wear a hi-vis piece of kit, forestry hard hat, visor and ear defenders, safety glasses, working boots, working gloves. Got to admit, two pairs of working trousers have to suffice, at the moment, for the proper leg gear. I've seen someone using an electric chainsaw, I presume you meant battery operated. Mains isn't easy to have as a convenient power source. With batteries, you've always got the problem of having enough battery power to do the work. If stealth is necessary, I'd probably use the bow saw. 

 

I've got a 20" blade chainsaw. It's not for massive stuff, but it's been adequate, so far. The chain oil is used up almost as fast as the fuel, which I didn't realise would be the case, at first. I have a petrol suitcase generator, so I have petrol around for that, and the chainsaw. 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Higgs