Calls to limit boat traffic to protect wildlife on restored Welsh canal

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Last time I went up the Basingstoke you couldn't reach Greywell because of a lanslip at St John's. Hs it been cleared now?

Yes that has been cleared a while ago

[MtB]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Last time I went up the Basingstoke you couldn't reach Greywell because of a lanslip at St John's. Hs it been cleared now?

 

No idea. I've only ever been there on me bike. But the canal around there is an utter dream with gin-clear water and fish you can see. I can see why the environmentalists would want to get rid of the boats.

 

 

[enigmatic]

Can see a few people actually going for horse boats as a notionally even more environmentally friendly alternative to electric boats. CRT should use "making towpaths ready for engine-free boats" as a fundraising strategy...

 

Although I wonder how the greenhouse gas emissions of a horse that farts regularly compare with that of a rarely-run engine?

 

As for this, I'm pretty sure the reeds getting a good whack from a passing rope isn't necessarily better for nature than a prop,

[Jerra]

12 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Can see a few people actually going for horse boats as a notionally even more environmentally friendly alternative to electric boats. CRT should use "making towpaths ready for engine-free boats" as a fundraising strategy...

 

Although I wonder how the greenhouse gas emissions of a horse that farts regularly compare with that of a rarely-run engine?

 

As for this, I'm pretty sure the reeds getting a good whack from a passing rope isn't necessarily better for nature than a prop,

Exactly what I hinted at back up the thread.   I couldn't agree more.

[TheBiscuits]

Sigh.

 

Doesn't anyone think outside the box anymore?

 

Make the cyclists legally obliged to tow boats as a quid pro quo for being allowed access to the towpath!

 

No horse needed, extra exercise for the cyclists and no diesel emissions.  What's not to like?

 

[churchward]

Surely, given that there are already restrictions on how many boats are let down onto the Montgomery canal from Frankton, this is not so controversial?

 

[Tonka]

Bur when restoration was planned the towns would have been told that the restored canal would bring in tourists which will spend money in the town. The volunteers restored the canal thinking boats will be using it. Both them and the town people will now be deeply disappointed 

[MtB]

From the article:

 

"Simon Spencer, a local wildlife expert, said: “The canal is wonderful as it is. It doesn’t need wrecking. It is currently used by canoeists and the whole length of the towpath from Llanymynech to Newtown is enjoyed by cyclists, walkers, birdwatchers. If it’s full of boats and oil film across the water-surface, you won’t have as many people using it. Why spend millions on a few boat movements?"

 

He has a point here I think. When I biked along the towpath of the far end of the Basy where there are no boats, the character of the canal was totally different from say, the rural parts of the Oxford. Far more charming with clear water rather than the muddy soup caused by powered boats. And there were lots of people walking their dogs etc and generally enjoying the canal there, just like any canals with boats. 

 

Just imagine how much more beautiful our canals would become if powered boats were banned, and never mind cheaper to maintain. The more I think about it, the more this vision must appeal to CRT. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by MtB

[magnetman]

It is an interesting approach. If it was only unpowered portable craft using the waterways then you could just stank off the locks with concrete weirs. Huge saving in maintenance costs. 

 

Rewilding is an irritating word but it has to be said that this would be a more useful amenity for locals than canals full of canal boats. 

 

A linear park. 

Punting could become popular. 

Everyone messing about in small boats with not a propeller to be seen, swimming and splashing around with gay abandon in one huge communal lido. Isn't it. 

 

Worse things happen at sea. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by magnetman

[MtB]

33 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It is an interesting approach. If it was only unpowered portable craft using the waterways then you could just stank off the locks with concrete weirs. Huge saving in maintenance costs. 

 

Rewilding is an irritating word but it has to be said that this would be a more useful amenity for locals than canals full of canal boats. 

 

A linear park. 

Punting could become popular. 

Everyone messing about in small boats with not a propeller to be seen, swimming and splashing around with gay abandon in one huge communal lido. Isn't it. 

 

Worse things happen at sea. 

 

 

Sounds great! Just don't ever mention the Weil's Disease or they'll all be catching it. 

 

Amazingly when I was a teenager there was an informal Lido being operated in the Basingstoke canal somewhere around the New Haw/Woodham section still in water back in the 70s. I never fancied it at all but lots of my mates used to go swimming in the canal there in summer. They used to talk of getting changed in someone's terraced house (IIRC) then going through the back garden to the canal and sloshing about in the mud.

 

No-one caught Weils though, as far as I know. 

 

 

[Momac]

On 25/02/2023 at 09:58, MtB said:

 

 

Stand by for more of this with support from CRT as it suits them just fine to no longer have to maintain the waterway in a condition suitable for navigation. 

The idea that C&RT would like to drive boats off the Inland waterways although at first said a a bit of joke is now seeming like a reality. 

A huge rise in license fees could well result in significant decline in boats. 

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Worse things happen at sea. 

Could be the sea will be the only option for boats. 

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

Just imagine how much more beautiful our canals would become if powered boats were banned, and never mind cheaper to maintain. The more I think about it, the more this vision must appeal to CRT. 

A vision that could be achieved rapidly by making license fees ridiculously high. 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, MartynG said:

A vision that could be achieved rapidly by making license fees ridiculously high. 

 

One man's 'ridiculous' is another man's 'reasonable'

 

Just saying.

[Rincewind]

On the topic of informal Lido's, many years ago the St. Helens canal near the town center was such a place all year round.  Pilkingtons Glass had a factory alongside the canal and they used to draw water from the canal for cooling purposes and then return it to the canal - at a much higher temperature.  You could go swimming there without restriction.  It was known locally as the "Hotties" and the water was, as I recall, crystal clear.  (Sadly not now!)

Pilkingtons raised the temperature of the canal water so much that someone put some tropical fish in that section of the canal and within a short time they had multiplied to the extent that the canal was teeming with them! They thrived for years until Pilkingtons changed their production methods and stopped using the canal water.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

Sounds great! Just don't ever mention the Weil's Disease or they'll all be catching it. 

 

Amazingly when I was a teenager there was an informal Lido being operated in the Basingstoke canal somewhere around the New Haw/Woodham section still in water back in the 70s. I never fancied it at all but lots of my mates used to go swimming in the canal there in summer. They used to talk of getting changed in someone's terraced house (IIRC) then going through the back garden to the canal and sloshing about in the mud.

 

No-one caught Weils though, as far as I know. 

 

 

We all use to swim in the local broad, nearest pool was in Gt Yarmouth, an hours bus ride away.

 

[MtB]

41 minutes ago, MartynG said:

A vision that could be achieved rapidly by making license fees ridiculously high. 

 

It strikes me as highly unlikely that raising licence fees will drive large numbers of boats off CRT waters. For this to happen, large numbers of boats will have to be scrapped (or moved to non-CRT waterways).

 

No matter how high fees get, people bailing out of boat ownership due to cost are gonna flog their boats for whatever they can get for them rather than cut them up and destroy them I predict, so almost as many boats will remain on CRT waters as now.

 

Therefore, the value of a boat is partly dependent on the cost of the licence. The soaring prices of second hand boats also lends credence to the thinking that licences are inappropriately cheap at the moment and can/needs to rise substantially.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by MtB

[magnetman]

Good observation. If boats go up in value (!!) then something is wrong with the economics. The CRT should be getting this money not private boat owners. 

[Arthur Marshall]

15 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

This strikes me as highly unlikely. For this to happen, large numbers of boats will have to be scrapped or moved tonon-CRT waterways.

 

No matter how high fees get, people bailing out of boat ownership are gonna flog their boats for whatever they can get for them rather than cut them up and destroy them, I predict. Therefore, the values of boats are partly dependent on the costs of licences. The soaring prices of second hand boats also lends credence to the thinking that licences are inappropriately cheap at the moment. 

 

 

Are prices still soaring? The ban on travel in the pandemic made a lot of people look for something in the UK and I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of those came on the market . House prices are either falling or static and expected to fall further. Much higher licences, on top of increasing marina fees may well persuade the summer weekend boaters to sell up. I don't know why half the people on my mooring have boats - I suspect it's because they can't be bothered to get rid of them. They certainly don't go boating on them.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Are prices still soaring? The ban on travel in the pandemic made a lot of people look for something in the UK and I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of those came on the market . House prices are either falling or static and expected to fall further. Much higher licences, on top of increasing marina fees may well persuade the summer weekend boaters to sell up. I don't know why half the people on my mooring have boats - I suspect it's because they can't be bothered to get rid of them. They certainly don't go boating on them.

 

I really do not think the numbers of boats will reduce.

 

Those 'on the poverty line' already hit by 20% food inflation that cannot afford the new licence fees will either not licence their boats or will 'drop off the face of the Earth' and go and live in tents, under bridges, hostels etc.

 

A 'new breed' of boat owner will replace then - the ones who due to the cost of living , can no longer afford a house and remember seeing an article in the Sun / Mail / Express about cheap boat living. A licence fee 2x or 3x the current level will still be cheaper than £1000 a month for a flat.

 

Thos further up the 'wealth ladder' will maybe have to have a 'mokka latino flapper coffee' less per day but otherwise there will be no diference.

 

At the top of the tree - those who can afford a new boat at £150k - £250k (or more) will sit with their G&T and pickled egg smiling over the taff-rail.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A 'new breed' of boat owner will replace then - the ones who due to the cost of living , can no longer afford a house and remember seeing an article in the Sun / Mail / Express about cheap boat living. A licence fee 2x or 3x the current level will still be cheaper than £1000 a month for a flat.

 

^^^ This ^^^

 

I'm quite certain this is exactly right. If a licence goes up to £3k a year (as it should), living on a boat will still appear cheap as chips to anyone struggling to find the rent for a studio flat (£700 a month around here). The people on boats who can't afford even £3k a year will decamp to living in Mercedes Sprinter vans in lay-bys and CRT car parks. I'm already seeing this to a small degree and it is set to get a LOT worse.

[Hudds Lad]

The solution is quite simple, collect together all these TV environmentalists who are sticking their oar in and invite them to do just that, literally.

Book your spot to lock down Frankton and then choose which one of the little fellas you’d like to tow you in a little rowboat.

Job jobbed.

 

[Momac]

There seems to be a perception that well off people will jut pay up the theoretical increased fees. There is some truth in this. But usually people who are well off are careful with money and like to get good value. Well off people can more easily go and do something else with their money.

 

Less well off people will be less able to accommodate large license fee increaes and are more likely to be forced into some other way of living.

 

 

[magnetman]

7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

There seems to be a perception that well off people will jut pay up the theoretical increased fees. There is some truth in this. But usually people who are well off are careful with money and like to get good value. Well off people can more easily go and do something else with their money.

 

Less well off people will be less able to accommodate large license fee increaes and are more likely to be forced into some other way of living.

 

 

People already get their licences paid by the state. It is a real thing and does happen. You need to be living on the boat and be eligible for state support for your housing costs. Hoops to jump through etc. 

 

In an unexpected way the canals could be state funded in future at least to a small extent.

 

It might not happen but with the legitimising of the "continuous cruiser" as a real thing changes could happen.

 

Of course people who are not eligible for state support should just pay up. 

 

[casper ghost]

Just ban engines of more than 1 cylinder 🤣

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, casper ghost said:

Just ban engines of more than 1 cylinder 🤣

 

Or younger than 75 years...

[casper ghost]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Or younger than 75 years...

Damn, mines 73 year's old..