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C&RT License Survey


Arthur Marshall

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2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

When we moved aboard full time live aboards in 89 diesel could still be had for 50 pence A GALLON. A tad more in some places. There were plenty of three piece suites in the cut and several cars. Such as the A and C had lengsthmen and full time lockies lived in the lock cottages at most of the locks. Other areas were maintained to a lesser extent, the coventry canal was full of rubbish and furniture when we moved aboard at Ansty the day we set off. The canals improved over the next approx ten or so years but have gone downhill for the last few. Still better to live on a boat than a house if you can, lets hope it improves again over the next few years. 

I think the CRT will have had a look under the blanket to find their grant, and are aware of ongoing rising costs. They have trimmed staff, sold off assets, and still relying on the begging bowl for running costs 

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20 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think the CRT will have had a look under the blanket to find their grant, and are aware of ongoing rising costs. They have trimmed staff, sold off assets, and still relying on the begging bowl for running costs 

 

They're in exactly the same unfortunate position as many other organisations funded wholly or partly by the government whose funding has been reduced in real terms in the past 10 years or so -- NHS, police, firefighters, social care, schools, community amenities, transport, local government... 😞

Edited by IanD
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24 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

They're in exactly the same unfortunate position as many other organisations funded wholly or partly by the government whose funding has been reduced in real terms in the past 10 years or so -- NHS, police, firefighters, social care, schools, community amenities, transport, local government... 😞

But least some of those have competent management. Not all, mind.

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7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

it will soon become a 'muddy ditch' for the rich

I’ve been thinking that for quite awhile now. (CRT and the areas of neglect aside) I think I’ve always realised it would one day be a playground for the rich. 

Shame, Ive liked seeing people able to go boating on a budget.

Costs are rising rapidly. Now that things are getting tighter and tighter, I foresee lots of people selling their holiday boats

What I paid today for diesel was shocking. 

 

3 hours ago, pete.i said:

cannot see why any "comfortably rich" or "well off" boater would want to run their gin palaces up and down a muddy and not always very navigable ditch for the increasing amount money required to do that. 

Exactly 

 

1 hour ago, Chris John said:

Sounds like pure profiteering at that price, especially as Brent crude is at its lowest price since Jan 22. I paid £125 for domestic which I felt was about right 

Yes, I got caught out, but sometimes you have to use an expensive marina. 

 

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1 hour ago, AndrewIC said:

But least some of those have competent management. Not all, mind.

I'm not sure how much even competent management can do with insufficient funding...

Edited by IanD
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4 minutes ago, MtB said:

If boaters were willing to pay an economic price for their licenses that actually reflected the costs of running the canal system, the waterways might not be in the state they are in now.

 

The problem is that many boaters want CART to prioritise their interests -- not cyclists, or walkers, or fishermen, or the great unwashed general public -- but they don't want to pay for this, in fact they want the GUGP to pay for it via taxation so they don't have to... 😉

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13 minutes ago, IanD said:

The problem is that many boaters want CART to prioritise their interests -- not cyclists, or walkers, or fishermen, or the great unwashed general public -- but they don't want to pay for this, in fact they want the GUGP to pay for it via taxation so they don't have to... 😉

They DO pay for this, unlike cyclists, walkers or fishists. 

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20 minutes ago, IanD said:

The problem is that many boaters want CART to prioritise their interests -- not cyclists, or walkers, or fishermen, or the great unwashed general public -- but they don't want to pay for this, in fact they want the GUGP to pay for it via taxation so they don't have to... 😉

Those boaters who pay income tax will contribute to to all the things aforementioned (NHS etc),The problem is that for years taxation has been too low, and while no doubt there are poorly managed organisations, there is a limit to the goods and services that can be purchased with the money provided.

It's been argued before that boaters should pay eg three time what they pay now. That would result in a mass exodus, leaving the bean counters to go back to their dart boards,

Edited by LadyG
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9 hours ago, LadyG said:

I'm afraid this is bad news, there will be even less proper chaps like @Arthur Marshall on the cut, in fact no one will be buying a boat as a hobby, it's more likely these boats will be sold and head for London, where rents are so high, and houses so unaffordable .

We all have a budget, I did my sums before all this started, and added a fair bit for inflation of outgoings, ie ten percent, but the government shafted me by rescinding the triple lock last year, money lost that can never be recovered. Food is up fifteen percent per annum,  and fuel about fifty percent.

So it's likely I'll be heading South, then cash out sooner than planned. I won't be the only one.

Costs for running a house have gone up considerably and house prices are extremely high. Rents  on the rise

Be careful you don't jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

 

Edited by MartynG
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6 minutes ago, matty40s said:

They DO pay for this, unlike cyclists, walkers or fishists. 

All of who pay for it via their taxes, and who outnumber boaters by more than 1000x.

 

By the standards of everyone else who pays for somewhere to live and/or enjoy themselves, boaters pay not very much for quite a lot...

 

 

..

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4 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Costs for running a house have gone up considerably and house prices are extremely high. Rents  on the rise

Be careful you don't jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

 

I'll claim for all these benefits others have been getting for years, I've paid my own way long enough.

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6 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Costs for running a house have gone up considerably and house prices are extremely high. Rents  on the rise

Be careful you don't jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

 

That is always the risk of selling up and jumping off the housing ladder.

 

Stepping back on will be more difficult.

 

Finding a rental property is far from easy either. Rents are high and rental property is in high demand.

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46 minutes ago, MtB said:

If boaters were willing to pay an economic price for their licenses that actually reflected the costs of running the canal system, the waterways might not be in the state they are in now.

 

 

As CRT reckon boaters fees make up 12% of their income, that would mean licences going up nearly eightfold, my annual licence would be about £10,000. I'm not sure there would be many boats left on the system.

And the waterways would derelict again, a dump for old bikes and furniture.

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3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

That is always the risk of selling up and jumping off the housing ladder.

 

Stepping back on will be more difficult.

 

Finding a rental property is far from easy either. Rents are high and rental property is in high demand.

It would have been in the late 90's I worked with someone who together with her husband had lived  on a narrowboat for 10 years 

As a couple they had sold the house and bought the boat

The boat retained its value 

However house prices over the same period had doubled

Health issued had forced a return to living on land 

So they had to rent in retirement. Not ideal.

 

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There is very little relationship between the cost of running CRT (And the Thames etc) and the cost of a licence.  You are charged the most that the powers that be think the market will bear and I reckon the market will bear a good bit more yet. They know that there are more boats on the system than ever before and therefore they can easily lose many of those boats and the people that own them. There is still a demand for ridiculously expensive boats and plenty of room for 'gentrification'. The canals are not part of our 'heritage' they are somewhere for the better off to play boats. Much the same thing happened after Thatchers tax cuts, Costs went up to pay for them. OK this is not quite the same cause but the effect will be the same and some people will be driven off like we were. The canals are not there for all to use, they are there for those who can afford them and I certainly can't. I used to advise people to look across the channel but of course that is no longer what it used to be. Just like everything else its all politics now.

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13 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

As CRT reckon boaters fees make up 12% of their income, that would mean licences going up nearly eightfold, my annual licence would be about £10,000. I'm not sure there would be many boats left on the system.

And the waterways would derelict again, a dump for old bikes and furniture.

It's not as bad as that. Boaters currently pay 12% of CART income and the government grant -- meaning taxpayers, meaning everyone else including runners/cyclists/fishermen/walkers -- pays about 25% IIRC. Since this government knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing, boaters interests are put below those of the general public who pay twice as much.

 

Logically, if the license fee was doubled then boaters would become higher priority than the cyclist/fisherman/walker, and if it was trebled then they could be disregarded entirely.

 

So how much would boaters be willing to pay to move up the priority list?

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Just now, Arthur Marshall said:

As CRT reckon boaters fees make up 12% of their income, that would mean licences going up nearly eightfold, my annual licence would be about £10,000. I'm not sure there would be many boats left on the system.

And the waterways would derelict again, a dump for old bikes and furniture.

We’re gonna go around in circles again with the same arguments about how boaters must pay more for the system.

It’s pretty much a stale discussion. 

 

 

What’s concerning and interesting is with all price rises across the board at the moment how will it effect the ‘occasional’ boater?

It’s such an expense to part time boat. It would worry me if I were still living in a house and paying to keep a boat on a home mooring: the boat would have to go.

Are people still going to be able to afford to travel (by car or whatever) possibly several hundred miles or more  to take a boat out a few times a year? And then pay the extortionate amount on diesel to go holidaying and then find pubs and restaurants are over priced too?

I don’t think so.

 

 

I reckon and predict come next year lots of part time boaters will have sold their boats to save on their out goings.

And those land lubbers that can’t afford housing will buy up them said boats to live aboard. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

I'm not sure how much even competent management can do with insufficient funding...

Or indeed how much incompetent management can do with sufficient funding ...

 

to be fair public sector and competent management aren't usually found in the same sentence in my experience.....

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