C&RT License Survey

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

"The Trust is asking boaters for their views on whether increases should apply evenly to all boaters using the current boat licence fee structure, or whether it is fairer to apply higher increases to certain boaters in a way that reflects how they use the waterways and the higher costs of meeting their needs."

 

Hang on, this sounds exactly like what has been discussed ad infinitum on another thread... 😉

yes, but some of the most vocal on here like yourself do not have a boat license which means you possibly won’t get your say 

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

yes, but some of the most vocal on here like yourself do not have a boat license which means you possibly won’t get your say 

 

Not yet -- so I hope that makes you happy then... 😉

Edited February 16, 2023 by IanD

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

always an edge of cattiness with you,

and hand bag swinging,

no need really,

 

just saying it’s a consultation with license holders

 

I’m always happy, I’m boating. 

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

yes, but some of the most vocal on here like yourself do not have a boat license which means you possibly won’t get your say 

 

Yeah, we wouldn't want @IanD being able to tell CRT he thinks he should pay more for his licence because he has a new expensive boat. 

 

Much better if all the marina-based floating weekend cottages decide the old bloke living on a tarpaulin-covered 20ft GRP should pay five times as much licence as they do ...

 

Or have I misunderstood?

[wandering snail]

11 minutes ago, Goliath said:

yes, but some of the most vocal on here like yourself do not have a boat license which means you possibly won’t get your say 

As CRT have also invited to non boat licence holders to take part, this is irrelevant. As will their comments be. See this on CRT's website: If you still cannot find the invite or are not a boat licence holder but would like to take part in the consultation, please contact us on customer.services@canalrivertrust.org.uk and we can arrange for the consultation invite to be re-sent to you.

7 minutes ago, Goliath said:

 

 

just saying it’s a consultation with license holders

 

 

No, it isn't.

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by wandering snail

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

As CRT have also invited to non boat licence holders to take part, this is irrelevant. As will their comments be.

No, it isn't.

 

what a load of shyte then

 

my 106 year old mom who don’t know what a boat is might as well give her point of view to CRT

[dmr]

Hindsght is a wonderful thing. I recall that when CRT was set up they suggested that it would only work if the government would meet the cost of any major infrastructure failures. Gov said no and CRT rolled over. They should have dug therir heels in.

I assume and hope that CRT are trying to re-negotiate this but its a pretty bad political situation right now.

[wandering snail]

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

what a load of shyte then

 

my 106 year old mom who don’t know what a boat is might as well give her point of view to CRT

Yes, as could anyone throughout the world. By the way, not sure how responders can answer questions about continuous cruiser licences when there is no such licence. Haven't seen the rest of the survey yet but do hope it is less subjective and much more accurate than the one question I have seen.

Edited February 16, 2023 by wandering snail

[matty40s]

4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

 

my 106 year old mom who don’t know what a boat is might as well give her point of view to CRT

Well, when you get a free licence next year, you know her voice was heard.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Ray T said:

The consultation is being sent out to all boat licence holders in February by email, text message, or post, depending on what contact information they have given the Trust, and will run until 6 April 2023.

 

I haven't received mine yet!

 

Anyone here had theirs? what are the questions? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

Yes, as could anyone throughout the world.

 

 

Not really. The survey is only being sent to CRT licence holders.

 

 

I wonder it I'll get two...

 

 

[dmr]

CRT pretty much have their hands tied unless they get new legislation, and thats not going to happen.

Hitting CC'ers looks attractive, but really its the CM'ers they want to get.

Cheap housing on semi static boats is the biggest growth area (I suspect) Another shot at the roving mooring permit would be good, but that can't be done legally. Also if cheap housing is no longer cheap it might be less attractive, or the increased cost in handling unlicenced boats might exceed the extra income.

How would a higher CC licence cost work for boats that CC in the summer but take a marina mooring over the winter?

 

I predict they will go for a higher CC licence but after a backlash will set it at something trivial like an extra 5% delayed for 5 years, so increase their admin costs for very little gain 😀

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, dmr said:

I predict they will go for a higher CC licence but after a backlash will set it at something trivial like an extra 5% delayed for 5 years, so increase their admin costs for very little gain 😀

 

This is my forecast too. 

 

The timidity and delay with which they introduced the (trivial0 surcharges on wide boats was pathetic, I thought.

 

Change it to charging proportionally by deck area immediately at the end of the consultation, is what I'd like to see CRT doing. 

 

They've always had a policy of charging larger boats (including those that are only longer) far less proportionally than they charge shorter boats. This should stop in my opinion. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Ray T said:

Since the Trust was formed, it has grown other sources of income to keep the network running. The Trust’s annual income from investments has increased from £41.9 million in 2013/14 to £51.4 million in 2021/22 (higher growth than the market average), and its income from services to electricity, IT, and other utility companies and water development has grown from £24.7 million in 2013/14 to £37.7 million in 2021/22. Fundraising income is forecasted to grow by 10% each year ...............

 

Interesting that the figures for 'fundraising' are not shown : A 10% increase per annum on £100 is not much !

I wonder how much the increases in 'cost of fundraising' (ie another Directors salary) will affect the income ?

 

The investment income looks to be a good growth  - until you realise that is over 8 years and only equates to 2.5% growth per annum. My company pension did much better than that !

Edited February 16, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[dmr]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

This is my forecast too. 

 

The timidity and delay with which they introduced the (trivial0 surcharges on wide boats was pathetic, I thought.

 

Change it to charging proportionally by deck area immediately at the end of the consultation, is what I'd like to see CRT doing. 

 

They've always had a policy of charging larger boats (including those that are only longer) far less proportionally than they charge shorter boats. This should stop in my opinion. 

 

I can't decide about that one. A short boat going through a lock still uses a lock full of water and probably causes almost as much wear on the system as a big one (more in some cases). I am surprised that many marnas charge by the foot when a shorter boat still fully ocupies a jetty.

 

Financially boaters do well, we cost much more than we put in, but then again cyclists put in nothing, and many canal visitors are here to see boats and maybe watch a boat going through a lock so we do provide the character of the canal.

I am happy to pay quite a bit more....but I expect something in return..

[Jon57]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

I can't decide about that one. A short boat going through a lock still uses a lock full of water and probably causes almost as much wear on the system as a big one (more in some cases). I am surprised that many marnas charge by the foot when a shorter boat still fully ocupies a jetty.

 

Financially boaters do well, we cost much more than we put in, but then again cyclists put in nothing, and many canal visitors are here to see boats and maybe watch a boat going through a lock so we do provide the character of the canal.

I am happy to pay quite a bit more....but I expect something in return..

They could put a pay meter on every lock so the gongozellers can pay a fee to see a lock in operation. Bit like a fairground attraction. We of course go free. 😁

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

what a load of shyte then

 

my 106 year old mom who don’t know what a boat is might as well give her point of view to CRT

 

I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I've asked to take part then... 😉

Edited February 16, 2023 by IanD

[David Mack]

53 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The investment income looks to be a good growth  - until you realise that is over 8 years and only equates to 2.5% growth per annum. My company pension did much better than that !

But is that 2.5% all they got, or did they take an income from the investments (which is surely the main purpose of holding them) and get 2.5% capital growth?

[Lily Rose]

15 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But is that 2.5% all they got, or did they take an income from the investments (which is surely the main purpose of holding them) and get 2.5% capital growth?

 

I didn't see any mention of capital growth, the figures quoted are said to be income. I would imagine the capital growth rate is greater than the income growth rate but only relevant if/when the asset is sold.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

26 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I've asked to take part then... 😉

it won’t spoil my day

 

But it’s ok you having an opinion on here about license fees but it’s another thing taking part regards the consultation. 
 

you are not a license holder and should not be invited for feedback

 

and as a license holder I will happily question CRT why they feel the need to open up feedback to non license payers for opinions 👍
 

 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Goliath said:

it won’t spoil my day

 

But it’s ok you having an opinion on here about license fees but it’s another thing taking part regards the consultation. 
 

you are not a license holder and should not be invited for feedback

 

and as a license holder I will happily question CRT why they feel the need to open up feedback to non license payers for opinions 👍
 

 

 

 

But if someone is having a boat built?

 

And will be one soon?

 

I accept somebody like me shouldn't take part though.

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by M_JG

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, Goliath said:

it won’t spoil my day

 

But it’s ok you having an opinion on here about license fees but it’s another thing taking part regards the consultation. 
 

you are not a license holder and should not be invited for feedback

 

and as a license holder I will happily question CRT why they feel the need to open up feedback to non license payers for opinions 👍
 

 

 

But as I told CART I *will* be a license holder shortly, certainly before any result of the consultation takes effect. and possibly for longer after that than you... 😉

Edited February 16, 2023 by IanD

[Steilsteven]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

This is my forecast too. 

 

The timidity and delay with which they introduced the (trivial0 surcharges on wide boats was pathetic, I thought.

 

Change it to charging proportionally by deck area immediately at the end of the consultation, is what I'd like to see CRT doing. 

 

They've always had a policy of charging larger boats (including those that are only longer) far less proportionally than they charge shorter boats. This should stop in my opinion. 

20% is trivial in your book is it, funny how those who aren't faced with having to pay it are so fond of it.

 

 

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

20% is trivial in your book is it, funny how those who aren't faced with having to pay it are so fond of it.

 

 

But you're currently paying much less per square foot for your living space than somebody in a narrowboat, so surely this is just levelling out the playing field and making it "fairer"... 😉

[Steilsteven]

Just now, IanD said:

But you're currently paying much less per square foot for your living space than somebody in a narrowboat, so surely this is just levelling out the playing field and making it "fairer"... 😉

Done all that nonsense to death last time around, not going there again thank you.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Steilsteven said:

Done all that nonsense to death last time around, not going there again thank you.

You poked the bear... 😉