Eeyore Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hartlebury lad said: It certainly is high level. I may email them tomorrow. Going back to the fuse, they are not expensive to replace. would be handy to have a spare too. If i replace it, what is the safe way - battery supply is on the right in the picture, power out on the left? Post a picture of the holes in the mounting bracket if you can. Disconnecting the battery, unless there is a switch in the circuit. Make sure everything is switched off before reconnecting the battery, otherwise the slight sparking can be a bit alarming. Edited February 19, 2023 by Eeyore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartlebury lad Posted February 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Eeyore said: Post a picture of the holes in the mounting bracket if you can. Disconnecting the battery, unless there is a switch in the circuit. Make sure everything is switched off before reconnecting, otherwise the slight sparking can be a bit alarming. Do you mean the alternator? I have put up a couple of pics of the alternator and fuse in the OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted February 19, 2023 Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 Just now, Hartlebury lad said: Do you mean the alternator? I have put up a couple of pics of the alternator and fuse in the OP? The holes on the engine where the alternator sits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartlebury lad Posted February 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2023 17 minutes ago, Eeyore said: The holes on the engine where the alternator sits. Sadly no. I struggled to post them, only had a link with an outdated phone and poor signal. Ditchcrawler helped, and there is a close up on the thread. Back at the boat next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartlebury lad Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Update. The bracket is also knackered and i am getting one from Beta. I think it best to replace the aged alternator as well, instead of trying to repair. It is difficult to source though ( yes, an old ISKRA) and despite cross referencing, i may have to get it from Beta, who in fairness have been helpful. It's a bit more than expected, but not extortionate, and i know it will be a perfect fit. Beta offer a 120A upgrade, and all things considered ( pulleys, bolts, brackets) it is about £150 more. Is this a worthwhile option and will life be better? We are not liveaboards, generally long weekend boaters, apart from 2 x 2 week hols, and have fairly modest power needs, 12v fridge, LED lights, have a Sterling Combi Quasi 3kw inverter charger for shore, microwave, and hairdryer needs (don't ask) , and 4 newish 100A leisure batteries. Separate starter Alternator. Sorted the main fuse BTW - is was a 150A one blown. Still embarrassed .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 For your usage, I wouldn't bother. Live aboard, then a higher current alternator makes sense. Plus Lithium batteries, even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 25 minutes ago, Hartlebury lad said: Update. The bracket is also knackered and i am getting one from Beta. I think it best to replace the aged alternator as well, instead of trying to repair. It is difficult to source though ( yes, an old ISKRA) and despite cross referencing, i may have to get it from Beta, who in fairness have been helpful. It's a bit more than expected, but not extortionate, and i know it will be a perfect fit. Beta offer a 120A upgrade, and all things considered ( pulleys, bolts, brackets) it is about £150 more. Is this a worthwhile option and will life be better? We are not liveaboards, generally long weekend boaters, apart from 2 x 2 week hols, and have fairly modest power needs, 12v fridge, LED lights, have a Sterling Combi Quasi 3kw inverter charger for shore, microwave, and hairdryer needs (don't ask) , and 4 newish 100A leisure batteries. Separate starter Alternator. Sorted the main fuse BTW - is was a 150A one blown. Still embarrassed .... And when you use the microwave, hairdryer, fridge etc how long do you cruise for each day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartlebury lad Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Just now, ditchcrawler said: And when you use the microwave, hairdryer, fridge etc how long do you cruise for each day Usually 4-7 hours, Microwave rarely , maybe 5- 10 mins every other day, hair dryer is low wattage, 3-5 mins every other day, usually done on the move. Fridge is the main culprit, but i am fairly obsessive about power. Last leisure batteries replaced after 11 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Try Lancashire Rotating Electrical for a good price matching alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Hartlebury lad said: Update. The bracket is also knackered and i am getting one from Beta. I think it best to replace the aged alternator as well, instead of trying to repair. It is difficult to source though ( yes, an old ISKRA) and despite cross referencing, i may have to get it from Beta, who in fairness have been helpful. It's a bit more than expected, but not extortionate, and i know it will be a perfect fit. Beta offer a 120A upgrade, and all things considered ( pulleys, bolts, brackets) it is about £150 more. Is this a worthwhile option and will life be better? We are not liveaboards, generally long weekend boaters, apart from 2 x 2 week hols, and have fairly modest power needs, 12v fridge, LED lights, have a Sterling Combi Quasi 3kw inverter charger for shore, microwave, and hairdryer needs (don't ask) , and 4 newish 100A leisure batteries. Separate starter Alternator. Sorted the main fuse BTW - is was a 150A one blown. Still embarrassed .... How often do you have to run the engine just to charge the batteries? If you don't (charge while cruising is enough) then no point getting a bigger alternator. If you do then it will reduce the time you need to run it for (noise!), save some fuel and reduce engine wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, IanD said: How often do you have to run the engine just to charge the batteries? If you don't (charge while cruising is enough) then no point getting a bigger alternator. If you do then it will reduce the time you need to run it for (noise!), save some fuel and reduce engine wear. But with 4 LA batteries not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanD Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: But with 4 LA batteries not by much. True, LFP is the cure for this but costs more... 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 Related question: An engineer changed the alternator belts whilst doing some other work on my engine appears to have left a bolt on one of mine loose, which ultimately ended with the domestic alternator belt going so slack so it was barely charging, as well as shaking around a lot more than it should. I fixed that (not at the first attempt, there turned out to be more than one bolt loose...) and now have a correctly tensioned belt and an absence of rattle. But I notice that the voltage of the batteries being charged now creeps up very slowly (from around 13.1 V shortly after it's turned on, around 13.5V after five mins of operation and up to 13.9/14v when it's been run for a lot longer). Batteries are less than a year old, well looked after and hold charge well, so I'm not suspecting any issues with them and I'm getting enough charge overall as I'm moving around, but the lower-than-expected voltage readings are concerning me. Is it likely the actual charging capability of the alternator has been impaired by excess vibration (e.g dislocating brushes/diodes? the external connections look fine)? Is that likely to be user serviceable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, enigmatic said: Related question: An engineer changed the alternator belts whilst doing some other work on my engine appears to have left a bolt on one of mine loose, which ultimately ended with the domestic alternator belt going so slack so it was barely charging, as well as shaking around a lot more than it should. I fixed that (not at the first attempt, there turned out to be more than one bolt loose...) and now have a correctly tensioned belt and an absence of rattle. But I notice that the voltage of the batteries being charged now creeps up very slowly (from around 13.1 V shortly after it's turned on, around 13.5V after five mins of operation and up to 13.9/14v when it's been run for a lot longer). Batteries are less than a year old, well looked after and hold charge well, so I'm not suspecting any issues with them and I'm getting enough charge overall as I'm moving around, but the lower-than-expected voltage readings are concerning me. Is it likely the actual charging capability of the alternator has been impaired by excess vibration (e.g dislocating brushes/diodes? the external connections look fine)? Is that likely to be user serviceable? What current is it putting into the batteries? Edited March 1, 2023 by ditchcrawler someone pinched my double u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: What current is it putting into the batteries? Unfortunately I don't think my 10A rated multimeter is adequate to check that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: What current is it putting into the batteries? This ^^^^^^^ Because as charging current rises the voltage falls, so although 13.9 to 14V is low for a modern alternator (but fine on 30 year old ones) it is a few 0.1V low for what is typical. I would expect to charge for several hours like 4+ before the voltage was close to maximum. 2 minutes ago, enigmatic said: Unfortunately I don't think my 10A rated multimeter is adequate to check that... OK, then sun a charging speed for 5 or 6 hours and tell us what the voltage is OR buy a multimeter with a DC amps clamp on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 Thanks both. I'm less concerned by the peak charging speed (seeing the 14.0 after an hour was actually reassuring) and more that it seems to start very slowly. I don't recall it starting as low as 13v or taking ages to get past 13.5V in the past... Though I must admit I haven't been in the habit of checking voltage when charging very often (I got into the habit after realising my alternator belt had gone slack when glancing at the readout on my solar charge controller with the engine running and seeing only 12.6V!). Sounds like I'm going to need a better multimeter to see how below par it's current output is (notionally it's rated at 55A, and it probably is 25 years old now). Just wondered if vibration damage is actually a thing with alternators, or whether there's anything that's worth me looking at internally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, enigmatic said: Thanks both. I'm less concerned by the peak charging speed (seeing the 14.0 after an hour was actually reassuring) and more that it seems to start very slowly. I don't recall it starting as low as 13v or taking ages to get past 13.5V in the past... Though I must admit I haven't been in the habit of checking voltage when charging very often (I got into the habit after realising my alternator belt had gone slack when glancing at the readout on my solar charge controller with the engine running and seeing only 12.6V!). Sounds like I'm going to need a better multimeter to see how below par it's current output is (notionally it's rated at 55A, and it probably is 25 years old now). Just wondered if vibration damage is actually a thing with alternators, or whether there's anything that's worth me looking at internally? In theory vibration might have broken a solder joint of the brushes might now be worn and making poor contact but as you are up to 14v after only an hour my feeling is it is probably OK. The start voltage and the speed of voltage rise depends upon the battery's state of charge. the lower their state of charge the higher the currant at any given voltage ad thus the lower the voltage as explained above. You said that until you sorted it you were getting very little charge, so the batteries would be much less charged than usual. Give is a day's charging and see how it goes. It sounds fairly normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: In theory vibration might have broken a solder joint of the brushes might now be worn and making poor contact but as you are up to 14v after only an hour my feeling is it is probably OK. The start voltage and the speed of voltage rise depends upon the battery's state of charge. the lower their state of charge the higher the currant at any given voltage ad thus the lower the voltage as explained above. You said that until you sorted it you were getting very little charge, so the batteries would be much less charged than usual. Give is a day's charging and see how it goes. It sounds fairly normal. Thanks Tony. Reassuring. Worth opening up to look at the brushes or is a novice like me more likely to damage it than solve anything? I've actually had a few days charging and battery voltage levels before and after charge seem to be where I'd normally expect them, so it's great if I don't have to worry about further deterioration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon57 Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 51 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: This ^^^^^^^ Because as charging current rises the voltage falls, so although 13.9 to 14V is low for a modern alternator (but fine on 30 year old ones) it is a few 0.1V low for what is typical. I would expect to charge for several hours like 4+ before the voltage was close to maximum. OK, then sun a charging speed for 5 or 6 hours and tell us what the voltage is OR buy a multimeter with a DC amps clamp on it. On offer at Lidl next week. £18. 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jon57 said: On offer at Lidl next week. £18 No good - no DC Amps range on clamp meter springy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon57 Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 minute ago, springy said: No good - no DC Amps range on clamp meter springy He was talking about voltage so is ok for his needs. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springy Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jon57 said: He was talking about voltage so is ok for his needs. He already has a multimeter but only has 10A range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon57 Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, springy said: He already has a multimeter but only has 10A range 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, Jon57 said: He was talking about voltage so is ok for his needs. 👍 Not in this case, to make any sort of diagnosis we need amps and volts because the voltage will be inversely proportional to the currant flow from an alternator. He needs to measure both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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