Advice on base plate pitting

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I have done so previously and suggest you go and search for them -

 

Why should we? You're the one making the assertions. 

[signal32]

Hi all, appreciate the discussion here.

 

Alan - I've seen your comments about Whilton all over the forum but never any evidence. Perhaps you would consider sharing it again for a newcomer?

[Richard10002]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have done so previously and suggest you go and search for them - alternatively you and your wing-man can just go along living in ignorance.

I've tried a search, but only find the one example that you keep repeating.

 

It's some coincidence that a few here can only recall or find the one example, whereas you insist there are many more, yet refuse to provide the info/links.

 

Come on Alan.... this is the kind of thing you would have saved for a simple cut and paste.

[Tony Brooks]

I would comment that in the context of the thread a warning about just how fast boats can (not will) pit is a valuable warning. having looked at boats a Wilton when I was buying, I would say they would not be top of my list of reputable brokers. There has also been talk of them passing off boats they own as private sales to avoid the legal implications of selling as a business rather than an individual. I don't know about now, but for years they seemed to have more than their fair share of down market bats.

[David Mack]

Until the 1980s steel narrowboats were generally built with 1/4 inch / 6mm bottoms. But when people started worrying about them corroding, it being difficult to keep them properly painted, the industry moved over to 10mm bottoms, with the additional 4mm being regarded as sacrificial. This boat is now over 25 years old and has still not got down to the old standard 6mm in that time, so I would suggest it is probably good for at least another 25 years.

The thinning at the edges at the stern is due to the bottom dragging in the mud when out of the main channel. It's normal, and nothing to worry about, but if you are concerned narrow strips can be welded on to the underside edges to take the wear. Likewise any particularly bad areas of pitting on the bottom can be plated locally. As this won't affect any insulation or fitout (unlike work to the hull sides) it can be done any time the boat is docked where there are welding facilities available. You don't need to do it now, it can simply be something to be checked at future dockings.

All of Alan's scaremongering about how quickly a boat can corrode may be true. But it would be equally true for any other boat you might be thinking of buying. If a 6mm plate can go to nothing in 6 months, then an undiminished 10mm plate would only last 10 months. Would you really be any happier with that?

[GUMPY]

I had some wear and pitting on the base plate of up to 3.1mm when I bought Loddon 11 years ago.

Decided it wasn't a problem since a loss rate  of 3mm every 20 years would mean that it could wear through somewhere about the year 2092

 

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

I would comment that in the context of the thread a warning about just how fast boats can (not will) pit is a valuable warning. having looked at boats a Wilton when I was buying, I would say they would not be top of my list of reputable brokers. There has also been talk of them passing off boats they own as private sales to avoid the legal implications of selling as a business rather than an individual. I don't know about now, but for years they seemed to have more than their fair share of down market bats.

Surprise, Surprise,  @Alan de Enfield mentioned “Wingman” and his shows up. 
 How many years ago were you looking to buy a boat from Whilton?

  All Brokers pass off boats which they own without transferring ownership, please stop Scaremongering unless you have factual evidence that’s up to date.

Edited February 19, 2023 by PD1964

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Why should we? You're the one making the assertions. 

 

I am making no assertions - I simply pointed out that one cannot say if any corrosion is 'typical' when there are external extenuating circumstances , such as water quality, where you more etc. I simply said that you can have severe corrosion within 18 months, or you can habve no corrosion after 20 years.

 

It is you making the assertions.

 

If it makes you shut up I'll give you another example (from another forum member) who had similar problems to "Keeping up" experiences.

 

There are others which have been possibly attributed to MIC (which I know you don't believe in either)

 

If you want more - then you go and look for them them they are 'out there',

I know when I'm right and you are wrong. I have to prove nothing to you.

 

 

[PD1964]

17 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How quickly can you walk away ?

 

They have history in selling boats with a good survey which have sunk on the first cruise by the new owner.(taking the boat home) 

  I think it these remarks that concern people. You say Whilton have a history of selling boats that sink, basically as soon as the new owner picks them up. Yet little evidence to back it up. If your going to call the integrity of a Business in doubt, then you must provide hard evidence. Instead of telling others to look for it.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

Surprise, Surprise,  @Alan de Enfield mentioned “Wingman” and his shows up. 
 How many years ago were you looking to buy a boat from Whilton?

  All Brokers pass off boats which they own without transferring ownership, please stop Scaremongering unless you have factual evidence that’s up to date.

 

I am surprised that you seem to make so light of brokers driving a coach and horses through UK consumer law ----- that is, unless you have a vested interest. Now it is my turn to ask you to name all those brokers breaking the law, but somehow I hold no hope that you will.

 

Fact - boats can (not will) corrode very fast under certain circumstances, that is not scaremongering, it is a prudent warning to take care.

Fact - some brokers have a better reputation than others, you may not like that, but those that seem to have done little to protect their reputation over many years and may be said to have done the opposite over many years need new boaters warning to take care. It matters not a jot about how long ago, if one finds a lot of boats in very poor condition, some that had been tarted up for sale, it suggests a certain business ethos that inexperienced new boaters need warning of.

 

As my mum used to say, "me thinks he protests too much".

[PD1964]

28 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am surprised that you seem to make so light of brokers driving a coach and horses through UK consumer law ----- that is, unless you have a vested interest. Now it is my turn to ask you to name all those brokers breaking the law, but somehow I hold no hope that you will.

 

Fact - boats can (not will) corrode very fast under certain circumstances, that is not scaremongering, it is a prudent warning to take care.

Fact - some brokers have a better reputation than others, you may not like that, but those that seem to have done little to protect their reputation over many years and may be said to have done the opposite over many years need new boaters warning to take care. It matters not a jot about how long ago, if one finds a lot of boats in very poor condition, some that had been tarted up for sale, it suggests a certain business ethos that inexperienced new boaters need warning of.

 

As my mum used to say, "me thinks he protests too much".

I know boats corrode not rocket science as they’re steel in water. I have no vested interest but like all yours and Alan’s scaremongering you offer little if any real evidence.

 When were you looking to buy a boat from Whilton? It does make a difference as they could of changed their practices, we’re talking about today not 20 years ago

  Your telling me you don’t know that Brokers sell boats that they own without telling the buyer?

 For two people who say they have ran business’s your both happy to slag Whilton off with little evidence you can post that’s relevant.

Edited February 19, 2023 by PD1964

[Tony Brooks]

32 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I know boats corrode not rocket science as they’re steel in water. I have no vested interest but like all yours and Alan’s scaremongering you offer little if any real evidence.

 When were you looking to buy a boat from Whilton? It does make a difference as they could of changed their practices, we’re talking about today not 20 years ago

  Your telling me you don’t know that Brokers sell boats that they own without telling the buyer?

 For two people who say they have ran business’s your both happy to slag Whilton off with little evidence you can post that’s relevant.

 

Slag off are your words, not mine. I was very circumspect with what I said. I suggested dealing with a certain broker needs caution. Nothing more or nothing less, just like Alan warned that very bad things can happen to hulls very quickly. You categorised this as "scare mongering", rather than prudent warnings to take care. I think your attitude is irresponsible to inexperienced newcomers looking to buy boats. I see you can't or won't post any evidence to support your assertion that many brokers break the UK consumer laws, so by your own utterings that make your views of limited value.

[haggis]

59 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

  I think it these remarks that concern people. You say Whilton have a history of selling boats that sink, basically as soon as the new owner picks them up. Yet little evidence to back it up. If your going to call the integrity of a Business in doubt, then you must provide hard evidence. Instead of telling others to look for it.

The remarks from A DeE were 

"How quickly can you walk away ?

They have history in selling boats with a good survey which have sunk on the first cruise by the new owner.(taking the boat home) "

 

I agree that these are remarks which should not be made without evidence to back them up. I think we all agree that there are circumstances which can cause a hull to  deteriorate quite quickly and examples of that have been given but these in no way back up that statement. 

[PD1964]

1 minute ago, haggis said:

The remarks from A DeE were 

"How quickly can you walk away ?

They have history in selling boats with a good survey which have sunk on the first cruise by the new owner.(taking the boat home) "

 

I agree that these are remarks which should not be made without evidence to back them up. I think we all agree that there are circumstances which can cause a hull to  deteriorate quite quickly and examples of that have been given but these in no way back up that statement. 

I can’t believe that someone who says he has a business would say it without hard evidence, as it could potentially do damage to that business and employees.

 Then another so called business man, who looked at a boat maybe 10-20 years ago says dealing with the Broker needs caution.

 Maybe times have changed a bit since they were on the canals.

[Guest]

Just a very general observation from when we bought our boat in 2010.

 

It was obvious to us that the majority of boats being brokered by Whilton were in general of 'the less well cared for type' when compared to what the likes of Rugby Boats, New and Used and ABNB had on brokerage at the time.

 

As a general comment I would be more cautious of a boat being brokered by Whilton (or indeed directly sold in Whilton's case) unless of course things have changed. That was thirteen years ago though so they may have done.

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I can’t believe that someone who says he has a business would say it without hard evidence, as it could potentially do damage to that business and employees.

 Then another so called business man, who looked at a boat maybe 10-20 years ago says dealing with the Broker needs caution.

 Maybe times have changed a bit since they were on the canals.

 

Maybe they have, but that does not mean advising caution is not relevant today.

 

I assume that you are talking about me being a businessman. If that so it is a claim you make, not I. Yes I was self-employed delivering training, but there is no way I would describe myself as a businessman. If I was, I would have made a lot more money. Apart from that, for over 16 years I dealt with questions from boaters on all sorts of topics and thus got a fair idea who was likely to short change their customers or not.

 

I note that you decline to give any indication of your competencies in your profile.

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I am making no assertions - I simply pointed out that one cannot say if any corrosion is 'typical' when there are external extenuating circumstances , such as water quality, where you more etc. I simply said that you can have severe corrosion within 18 months, or you can habve no corrosion after 20 years.

 

It is you making the assertions.

 

If it makes you shut up I'll give you another example (from another forum member) who had similar problems to "Keeping up" experiences.

 

There are others which have been possibly attributed to MIC (which I know you don't believe in either)

 

If you want more - then you go and look for them them they are 'out there',

I know when I'm right and you are wrong. I have to prove nothing to you.

 

 

That's got absolutely nothing to do with Whilton and fake surveys, which was the assertion questioned, and you know it.

 

As has been intimated, you find one example of something going wrong, and used it to promote doom and gloom, and tar the whole world with that brush.

[PD1964]

2 hours ago, M_JG said:

Just a very general observation from when we bought our boat in 2010.

 

It was obvious to us that the majority of boats being brokered by Whilton were in general of 'the less well cared for type' when compared to what the likes of Rugby Boats, New and Used and ABNB had on brokerage at the time.

 

As a general comment I would be more cautious of a boat being brokered by Whilton (or indeed directly sold in Whilton's case) unless of course things have changed. That was thirteen years ago though so they may have done.

Yes 13 years ago, obviously not that bad as still in business and still selling boats, unlike a lot of brokers and boat builders who are not in business anymore. The only one who can give an accurate up to date account of their practices is the OP.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by PD1964

[enigmatic]

tbh if Craig Allen is giving an indifferent hull survey to what is not a budget boat when being paid by the broker, that's probably a point in favour of the integrity of his surveying. Though it's normally much preferred to get your own

 

Whilton do broker lower end boats that the likes of Rugby Boats wouldn't, but then Rugby Boats wouldn't touch 90% of the boats on the canals...

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

tbh if Craig Allen is giving an indifferent hull survey to what is not a budget boat when being paid by the broker, that's probably a point in favour of the integrity of his surveying. Though it's normally much preferred to get your own

 

Whilton do broker lower end boats that the likes of Rugby Boats wouldn't, but then Rugby Boats wouldn't touch 90% of the boats on the canals...

https://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/7189.aspx

If £125,000 is the lower end then I am in the wrong business. 

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Tonka said:

https://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/7189.aspx

If £125,000 is the lower end then I am in the wrong business. 

 

Comedy price I reckon. 

 

I do find these immaculate boats curious. Any proper serious cruising will have all the shininess rubbed off outside and the insides muddied up a treat in about a week. 

 

 

[David Mack]

9 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I do find these immaculate boats curious. Any proper serious cruising will have all the shininess rubbed off outside and the insides muddied up a treat in about a week. 

It's a 20 year old boat by Barry Hawkins with a Whilton Marine fitout. My guess is they have bought it in in shabby condition and have just refitted it for sale.

 

And I know trad back cabins are not to everyone's taste, but I reckon one with more or less the right fittings but painted in uniform cream achieves the worst of all worlds!

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

It's a 20 year old boat by Barry Hawkins with a Whilton Marine fitout. My guess is they have bought it in in shabby condition and have just refitted it for sale.

 

And I know trad back cabins are not to everyone's taste, but I reckon one with more or less the right fittings but painted in uniform cream achieves the worst of all worlds!

 

Lol YES! 

 

Just as one can buy paint stripper, Whilton Marina appear with this one to have perfected the product called 'personality stripper' and used it liberally inside and out on this boat. 

[system 4-50]

I don't go with all this Whilton bashing.  They have a nice caff.  Or did have the last time I stopped there.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I don't go with all this Whilton bashing.  They have a nice caff.  Or did have the last time I stopped there.

 

Can't say I was particularly impressed with it when I was last there 15 years ago. 

 

And I'm being kind! 

 

But then I had just previously visited Betty's Tea Rooms in York.... 

 

Chalk and mud spring to mind.  No, hang on!! 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by MtB