Widebeam Retirement

[Ian Sullivan]

Hi all. I am completely new so will probably ask some dumb questions. I am lucky enough to be able to retire next year at the age of 54. My retirement plan is to buy a live aboard widebeam. I have been doing some research (Youtube) and I think I am drawn towards the Collingwood boats. However, new builds are a bit pricey as I have approx £185k to spend. Can you recommend an alternative builder that could give me a similar standard for new build or would you recommend a used boat?

Secondly, I am trying to decide if I would like to take a residential mooring. I am drawn towards continous cruising during the better months and an over winter mooring. Any suggestions for reasonable marinas please? Obviously I will have to avoid the London area as I am not rich but out past Reading on the K&A would be just fine.

Lastly, which brokerages would you recommend to advise me on all of the above?

Thanks in advance.

Ian

[Alan de Enfield]

It may be worth waiting a couple of months as C&RT are having a consultation about increasing the licence costs of all boats but are looking at increasing the price of widebeams exponetially. and apparently looking to try and 'price Continuous Cruisers off the waterways'.

 

It would not suprise me if a widebeam 'CC boat licence' wasn't in excess of £5000 with further 'big' increases each year.

 

Plan your budget with the ability to cope with 'surprises' or, you may regret it.

[Ian Sullivan]

Wow. That is a hefty licence fee. Luckily I dont have to move on this quickly. I am just starting my journey. I will sell my house and use this to pay for the boat and my pension should suffice with a fairly sizeable lump sum emergency fund (Im not rich I am in the fire service lol) and my plan was for this to last the next twenty something years.............I will watch with interest. Thanks

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Ian Sullivan said:

Wow. That is a hefty licence fee. Luckily I dont have to move on this quickly. I am just starting my journey. I will sell my house and use this to pay for the boat and my pension should suffice with a fairly sizeable lump sum emergency fund (Im not rich I am in the fire service lol) and my plan was for this to last the next twenty something years.............I will watch with interest. Thanks

 

There is some speculation about the 'numbers' but C&RT do not have enough income to keep up with canal maintenance, and have in fact some £200 million backlog of repairs.

 

Here are a couple of threads on the subject :

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GUMPY]

1 minute ago, Ian Sullivan said:

I will sell my house and use this to pay for the boat

Where will you live when you become to infirm to live on a boat? It will happen its just a question of when.

Getting back on the housing ladder is not easy and getting harder by the year. I managed it 10 years ago but couldn't have done it at todays prices.

 

[Ian Sullivan]

Well, at this moment in time I am still quite fit but it is something I had thought about. I have friends who have a residential mooring and thought that may be the answer but the more I investigate the more I am seeing that res moorings are thin on the ground and very pricey!

 

[ditchcrawler]

38 minutes ago, Ian Sullivan said:

Well, at this moment in time I am still quite fit but it is something I had thought about. I have friends who have a residential mooring and thought that may be the answer but the more I investigate the more I am seeing that res moorings are thin on the ground and very pricey!

 

As you are sound reasonably young and fit are you sure you want a wide beam and limit your travels?

[dmr]

Have you done some on the ground research?, maybe a visit to the K&A to see just how busy it is? and to see if you fancy trying to get a large widebeam past many other moored boats, including an increasing number of widebeams. It looks that just about everybody has the same plan as you at the moment and there is only room for so many widebeams on the Southern wide canals. The chances of finding a bankside residential mooring on the K&A is pretty close to zero.

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It would not suprise me if a widebeam 'CC boat licence' wasn't in excess of £5000 with further 'big' increases each year.

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There is some speculation about the 'numbers' but ....

 

As is your first post...

[Ian Sullivan]

42 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

As you are sound reasonably young and fit are you sure you want a wide beam and limit your travels?

I have investigated the canal systems and I have decided that it needs to be in the South for family reasons etc. I understand the problem with the restrictions on travelling with a widebeam. Of course the space is appealing but perhaps I need to consider a narrow beam too.

33 minutes ago, matty40s said:

As is your first post...

Yes, I saw this earlier in the post and was stunned............I will be keeping a close eye on this.........still lots of time to fully research.

[Ian Sullivan]

Sorry guys.........I am finding my way around here and replying to the wrong responses I think!

[Alan de Enfield]

50 minutes ago, matty40s said:

As is your first post...

 

Indeed but as an owner of a 14 foot beam 'widebeam' (now off C&RTs waters) I saw what was coming when the licence fee went up "to a NB + 25%" and the mooring fees went up "to a NB + 30%".

 

Now C&RT actually state they are looking to be targeting CCers and Widebeams.

 

As you well know they have a habit of attacking the 'low hanging fruit',and the principal 'if you have a big, new boat' then you can afford to pay a lot more than an owner of an old narrowboat,

 

I'll show you my 'thinking'.

 

The previous 'big-review' had the CC 'licence' at 2.5 times the price of a boat with a home mooring.

 

So, put a NB with a home mooring licence up to £1500 and for a CCer implement the previously planned increase of 2.5x the price and you are not far away from £4000. Add the Widebeam supplement (even if it remains at 25%) and you are at the £5000.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[TheBiscuits]

31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The previous 'big-review' had the CC 'licence' at 2.5 times the price of a boat with a home mooring.

 

You keep saying that.  Do you have a link or a document to support it,, because that's not something I recall from the last licence consultation.

 

It was at one point a wish from the IWA but got dismissed as a clumsy attempt at social cleansing of their playground.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You keep saying that.  Do you have a link or a document to support it,, because that's not something I recall from the last licence consultation.

 

It was at one point a wish from the IWA but got dismissed as a clumsy attempt at social cleansing of their playground.

 

I have posted it twice recently it was a multipage document but -  (again) the basis of the consultation was :

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

it was a multipage document

 

What is the document itself though?  Where is that table taken from?

Link? Full Title?

[Alan de Enfield]

BW’s craft licensing structure Consultation paper for presentation & discussion with Boating User Groups, 16th May 2002

[TheBiscuits]

43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I saw what was coming when the licence fee went up "to a NB + 25%"

 

It's going to be NB + 20% at 14' and that only from April 2023.

Currently +15%, previously +10% and +5%

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

BW’s craft licensing structure Consultation paper for presentation & discussion with Boating User Groups, 16th May 2002

 

Ta.

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/consultations/Reviews_Craft_Initial_Consultation.pdf

 

You may also want the update to it from August 2002.

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/consultations/Reviews_Craft_Consultation_Update.pdf

[TheBiscuits]

 

Actually the whole archive may be of interest:

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/consultations

[TheBiscuits]

2.6. Boats without permanent moorings

The initial May discussion document suggested that boats that cruised continuously around the network with no long term mooring might pay a premium on their licence.

Usage was subsequently ruled out as a cost driver (see para 2.1), but the suggestion prompted by far the largest response to any of the consultation issues. Strong and opposing views came from individuals and groups.

This has reaffirmed the imperative for clear guidelines to help customers decide whether or not they qualify for ‘continuous cruising’ status. Separate consultation is now underway on this issue and will be reported as soon as possible.

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/consultations/Reviews_Craft_Licensing_Review_Final_Report_Feb_2003.pdf

 

The initial proposal you keep referring to was scrapped in the first phase of the consultation.  It didn't survive the user groups.

[Bobbybass]

A spent my last 4 years on the K&A.  It was becoming a total nightmare. The canal itself is in a terrible state with the obvious lock gate problems....but worse than that the locks themselves. 

About 75% of the locks from Newbury to Devizes have failed pointing on the brickwork and many have big chunks where the bricks have fallen out.  I can't imagine where they could begin to find the money to close and repair all of those?.  It's only a matter of time before a section actually falls across a boat...with the result that Elf and safety will inspect/ close and condemn the lot.

 

Also....the number of new boats,  particularly wide beams....means you are on constant tick over...and your chance of a mooring spot is very limited. I've had plenty of run ins with the owners of the largest wide beams...who put out deliberately long lines so you don't get anywhere near there glossy paintwork.

 

Maybe you would find that elusive residential spot on the K&A but I think it's the worst canal on the network for a new boater.I met many "newbies" there that longed for a house again.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

2.6. Boats without permanent moorings

The initial May discussion document suggested that boats that cruised continuously around the network with no long term mooring might pay a premium on their licence.

Usage was subsequently ruled out as a cost driver (see para 2.1), but the suggestion prompted by far the largest response to any of the consultation issues. Strong and opposing views came from individuals and groups.

This has reaffirmed the imperative for clear guidelines to help customers decide whether or not they qualify for ‘continuous cruising’ status. Separate consultation is now underway on this issue and will be reported as soon as possible.

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/consultations/Reviews_Craft_Licensing_Review_Final_Report_Feb_2003.pdf

 

The initial proposal you keep referring to was scrapped in the first phase of the consultation.  It didn't survive the user groups.

 

Yes - that was the proposed increases, and just like Turkeys not voting for Christmas the User Groups didn't like to think of having to pay 2.5 times the price for a 'standard licence' or increases for fat-boats.

The actual implementaion of the propsals was vitually zero - nothing changed. Same licences, same costing structure, same discounts just annual increases on the rate per metre.

 

I fully expect that user groups will not vote to accept any proposals that C&RT put forward this time around - but - the circumstances are a little different this time in that C&RT are spending more than their income and need much, much, more money to stop the maintenance backlog increasing further.

I feel that irresepective of the user groups 'feedback' there will be huge increases, possibly in line with those earlier proposals.

 

However as we know the 'fat-boat surcharges were introduced a few years ago with a tapered introduction & it coming into full force in 2023.

(These charges were also thrown out, but were introduced anyway outside of the 'big reviews'). 

[LadyG]

12 hours ago, Ian Sullivan said:

Hi all. I am completely new so will probably ask some dumb questions. I am lucky enough to be able to retire next year at the age of 54. My retirement plan is to buy a live aboard widebeam. I have been doing some research (Youtube) and I think I am drawn towards the Collingwood boats. However, new builds are a bit pricey as I have approx £185k to spend. Can you recommend an alternative builder that could give me a similar standard for new build or would you recommend a used boat?

Secondly, I am trying to decide if I would like to take a residential mooring. I am drawn towards continous cruising during the better months and an over winter mooring. Any suggestions for reasonable marinas please? Obviously I will have to avoid the London area as I am not rich but out past Reading on the K&A would be just fine.

Lastly, which brokerages would you recommend to advise me on all of the above?

Thanks in advance.

Ian

Sorry, this is a very bad plan.

You are relatively young  and fit enough to travel the whole network, it is impossible to do this in a widebeam.

You may well have thirty years of active retirement, how can you possibly be sure you really want to spend it on the inland waterways of E&W? It will take you a few months or maybe two years to decide if you really love it, but you may not, what then?

There is no guarantee that the pricing structure as dictated by the Licencing Authority will stay as it is, in fact I think it may change radically in the next ten years. 

You seem to have decided a Collingwood widebeam is what you want. If new, it will lose a lot of money in depreciation. 

Most people are advised to buy a good second hand boat. You need to do more research on boat builders, need I say more?

You may think you have a large wad of cash, it won't last long unless you are very careful, and even very lucky.

Received wisdom is to invest in bricks and mortar which will give you a roof over your head, and should prove a good investment in the long term.

Boats designed for the inland waterways of E&W are a niche product, it is unlikely they will do anything other than depreciate.

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by LadyG

[Tonka]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Sorry, this is a very bad plan.

You are relatively young  and fit enough to travel the whole network, this is impossible to do this with a widebeam.

You may well have thirty years of active retirement, how can you possibly be sure you really want to spend it on the inland waterways of E&W? It will take you a few months or maybe two years to decide if you really love it, but you may not, what then?

You seem to have decided a Collingwood widebeam is what you want. If new, it will lose a lot of money in depreciation. 

Most people are advised to buy a good second hand boat. You need to do more research on boat builders, need I say more?

 

Not forgetting that according to Jeremy Hunt people who retire early are causing the cost of living crisis 

[Mike Hurley]

25 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Sorry, this is a very bad plan.

Received wisdom is to invest in bricks and mortar which will give you a roof over your head, and should prove a good investment in the long term.

 

 

Maybe a bad plan for you but not the OP, not everyone is obsessed with home ownership at the cost of their lifestyle. One life, live it.

[LadyG]

17 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Not forgetting that according to Jeremy Hunt people who retire early are causing the cost of living crisis

What politicians say today is irrelevant.

The OP has probably had a long time in a job with certain restrictions and needs a good break, to wind down mentally and to a lesser extent physically.

If he choses he could probably get a fairly well paid job with more flexibility, it's an ideal time as employers are really keen to get reliable staff. Many people don't realise that their skills and knowledge are in demand, it's a matter of finding the right job that fits in with one's lifestyle.