Jump to content

A list of the not so good professionals?


Tony1

Featured Posts

 

 

I spoke to a boater today who said an engineer (who shall remain nameless) had recently fitted a head gasket on his engine incorrectly.

I think he said it was fitted upside down, but I cant be sure on that detail. 

 

I think it would be a good idea if boaters- who pay a lot of money for professional boat services- had a system where we can find out if a given pro has left a lot of people disappointed.

I absolutely realise that the idea is fraught with issues and complications, and is potentially open to abuse by customers who had unreasonable expectations, or who misread the spec for the job, or similar. So yes, there are complications. 

 

But with the provisos mentioned, in the case of the boater I mentioned above, wouldn't it be a great help to the boating community if we had a shared knowledge of when professionals left customers disappointed?  

 

Maybe it could just be a sort of 'naughty' list, with no details of the work that could lead to a legal challenge.

Or maybe we could just ensure that all the posts made in that section contained the word 'allegedly'? 

 

I just feel like boaters should be protected from these sorts of cowboys, and the best place to share that sort of knowledge has to be here, right? 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Anyone, however good, will eventually make a mistake, it is how that mistake is rectified that is important. If the job was redone with any damaged parts replaced at no cost, I don't see a problem.

 

That's a good point Tony, and should be taken into account. My concern is for those boaters who are left very unsatisfied after an attempt has been made to fix things (or the opportunity offered). 

 

Rather than make a potentially legal issue by allowing full descriptions of the problem, we could have a tick box style form where you select things like 'engine', electrics, or whatever, you just give the company name, the area the work involved (eg electrics), and then you give a score out of ten.

No legally actionable details etc, just a score maybe? 

If anyone wants the grisly details you can do that via a private message? 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Peanut said:

I think you have to work the other way round, like a trusted trader list.

 

I thought about that, and there is definitely a place for it. 

But there also has to be a place where we can share the names of the really bad operators, surely? I mean the really crappy clueless ones.

I'm guessing there are specialist review sites available so maybe there's no real need, but then any professional who can put a head gasket on wrongly needs to be known about by other boaters. 

About 20% of the people who did jobs for me seemed to know very little more than I did, which is a terrifying thought.

 

 

 

Edited by Tony1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my limited experience (limited because I mostly do my own stuff) the list of “not so good” would be much longer than the “good” list. Which can’t be too surprising bearing in mind anyone can set themselves up as a “marine engineer”. The best indicator is that the “good” have a long waiting list whereas the “not so good” can come out this afternoon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I thought about that, and there is definitely a place for it. 

But there also has to be a place where we can share the names of the really bad operators, surely? I mean the really crappy clueless ones.

I'm guessing there are specialist review sites available so maybe there's no real need, but then any professional who can put a head gasket on wrongly needs to be known about by other boaters. 

About 20% of the people who did jobs for me seemed to know very little more than I did, which is a terrifying thought.

 

 

It is easier than you think, especially if it is an engine type you are unfamiliar with. Some engines have a proper length of tube feeding the rockers, so the gasket can go on any way it fits, whereas those with an internal oil drilling that is usually offset need care taking so a small hole in the gasket lines up with oil drilling. As the vast majority of engines have an oil filler on the rocker cover, the act of filling with oil lubricates the rockers and push rod cups, so it takes a while for squeaks from the rockers and cups to manifest themselves. I have never done it because I was familiar with engine with drillings, but a colleague of mine did it just once as a young man.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

In my limited experience (limited because I mostly do my own stuff) the list of “not so good” would be much longer than the “good” list. Which can’t be too surprising bearing in mind anyone can set themselves up as a “marine engineer”. The best indicator is that the “good” have a long waiting list whereas the “not so good” can come out this afternoon.

 

Electrics are one of the worst areas in my experience. I once paid a guy to do an 'informal' wiring job between engine bay and batteries.

He said he was qualified to work on gas but also had a good knowledge of electrics. Half an hour in, I could see he was ripping out cables from all over the place, and I got worried. 

I knew the job mainly involved inserting new cable, not taking out out old stuff, so I queried his actions. 

He said something to the effect of 'these connections are not safe, I am obliged to rip them out, now that I've seen them' 

So there you have a guy essentially with no professionally-backed knowledge (or insurance cover), not formally hired (cash in hand), and not acting as per the rules of any professional body, but pretending to be bound by professional safety rules, and thus refusing to comply with my request to leave the existing wiring alone.  

It took a fairly heated 'discussion' to clarify things for him. and focus on what I actually needed doing. 

This will not be an isolated example, and these sorts of people are essentially preying on boaters who know no better, and often  charging a lot of money. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It is easier than you think, especially if it is an engine type you are unfamiliar with. Some engines have a proper length of tube feeding the rockers, so the gasket can go on any way it fits, whereas those with an internal oil drilling that is usually offset need care taking so a small hole in the gasket lines up with oil drilling. As the vast majority of engines have an oil filler on the rocker cover, the act of filling with oil lubricates the rockers and push rod cups, so it takes a while for squeaks from the rockers and cups to manifest themselves. I have never done it because I was familiar with engine with drillings, but a colleague of mine did it just once as a young man.

 

I dont want to give any more details in case the engineer concerned reads this forum (as I suspect many pros do), but as you said, its also about what they do afterwards to rectify a mistake. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although I understand the feeling that poor quality trades people should be named, I have never been happy for that sort of subjrctive information being made available publicly. In what is essentially a small community where people share information orally, it should not be too difficult for boaters to find out which traders can, or cannot, be trusted to do a good job. I was fortunate inasmuch as I rarely needed any work doing, but when I did, I knew exactly who to use, and have never had any reservation in recommending them to others.

 

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

Although I understand the feeling that poor quality trades people should be named, I have never been happy for that sort of subjrctive information being made available publicly. In what is essentially a small community where people share information orally, it should not be too difficult for boaters to find out which traders can, or cannot, be trusted to do a good job. I was fortunate inasmuch as I rarely needed any work doing, but when I did, I knew exactly who to use, and have never had any reservation in recommending them to others.

 

 

 

 

People like the ones I've dealt with need to be more widely known.

Lets be real here- people are paying these clowns hundreds and hundreds of hard-earned pounds each week (money that they can often ill afford), for work that often has to be re-done. The issue of poor boat services and engineers is costing people an awful lot of financial pain. 

I honestly think its time to get the gloves off and set up a name and shame corner, as long as it can be done without legal risk. 

Your experiences are great, and I'm happy that the recommended people worked out well, but there are probably lots of people who dont have a lot of boating contacts, or who might not know how to avoid bad workers. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I doubt it is possible to "name and shame" without the risk of legal action, probably against the forum owner.

 

However, a thread ( probably pinned ) that praises/compliments good service/rapid rectification of accidental faults/knowledge etc should have no problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Anyone, however good, will eventually make a mistake, it is how that mistake is rectified that is important. If the job was redone with any damaged parts replaced at no cost, I don't see a problem.

It is a problem if they don't admit to their mistakes and take your money regardless. Of course I refer to the several people to came to sort electrical problems, and instead of discussing my system, and asking what I wanted, just bashed on. One even said he would have to spend time working out what the isolators were attached to, I think I worked it out myself in about five minutes by turning on and off the isolators in turn. None of them found the fourth set of batteries which were discovered last year when they starting producing H2S.

Things that were working before they started no longer work. Fortunately I have redundancy.

I had a new horn fitted, they used the existing s/s fittings but replaced bolts and screws with things that rust.

I don't mind paying a pound extra for a job that never needs to be done every year. I now have to dismantle everything, clean it up, replace the screws, paint the boat roof. This was one of the better companies. 

I think most of the guys don't have breadth of experience, so for example, if you ask for a new horn, you need to specify that it should be marine weatherproof and use s/s screws and bolts, because that is not what they normally use.

 

 

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As others have said, quality of work can be as much a matter of opinion as a matter of fact. Also, electrician A who messed up Tony1 or LadyG's work may have a string of delighted customers for who everything went swimmingly, or who didn't even realise unnecessary work had been done or rusting screws fitted. 

 

Due to the continual risk of legal action I don't think any published list of dodgy contractors is feasible. The best that can be done is post your personal opinions and experiences as reviews them on sites hosting reviews. Check-A-Trade etc. But even then, bad reviews can be deleted (I think) by the trader. Maybe Tony1 (or CWF?) could set up an independent site for reviews by customers. The trader under fire could then post a response if the feel the review is unfair, and sue the poster instead of CWF if they were that aggrieved.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Yes, it does seem as if the risk of legal action is too great.

My thinking was to have a thread which is basically just a list of names plus their trades, but giving no further details of the work. 

People considering one of the named companies could then PM the person who posted the name, and get further details in private.

But it seems even that would carry too great a risk of action against CWDF

I feel its unlikely that the guy who meddled with my electrics has a string of happy customers, but a traders review site is probably the best place for this sort of info anyway. 

Perhaps we all need to make sure that we post onto these websites every time we use a professional, and start building up a body of shared knowledge about them. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Yes, it does seem as if the risk of legal action is too great.

My thinking was to have a thread which is basically just a list of names plus their trades, but giving no further details of the work. 

People considering one of the named companies could then PM the person who posted the name, and get further details in private.

But it seems even that would carry too great a risk of action against CWDF

I feel its unlikely that the guy who meddled with my electrics has a string of happy customers, but a traders review site is probably the best place for this sort of info anyway. 

Perhaps we all need to make sure that we post onto these websites every time we use a professional, and start building up a body of shared knowledge about them. 

 

 

 

A private, 'round robin' type of mailing list shared by say, email amongst dissatisfied customers could be a solution....  Even then, customers unreasonably dissatisfied might use it as a weapon. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

A private, 'round robin' type of mailing list shared by say, email amongst dissatisfied customers could be a solution....  Even then, customers unreasonably dissatisfied might use it as a weapon. 

 

I'm reminded of this piece by Stewart Lee:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

What a wonderful society we have become where you can't say a cowboy has done a crap job and refuses to fix it, because he may sue the owner of the forum.

 

The problem is that there is usually three sides to every story.  How many times have we seen on this forum someone ask for advice and get given some that they don't want to hear and then kick off about how unhelpful people are.  You don't want to be in a situation where someone has done what they've been asked to do but through the client's eyes has not delivered what the client was expecting.  The client then comes on the forum and says what a bad job they've done, people listen to that and the tradesperson loses work because of it whilst not being aware of what is being said about them.

14 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I'm reminded of this piece by Stewart Lee:

 

 

 

That highlights another issue, people are encouraged to leave reviews and gain review points on various sites (a bit like the controversial achievement symbols on here). 

 

One review for a pub/restaurant near me gave one star and simply said "Haven't been so can't give more than one star". 😠

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another aspect to consider is what the customers asked for or agreed to. If they asked that the cost be kept to a minimum then even though any cost saving measures and associated were explained to them and agreed, if one did not work out then you can bet the customer would forget the advice and explanation and try to blame the engineer. At one time after a major overhaul or when fitting a bare engine we would fit a new (exchange) starter, water pump, injector pump, lift pump, and alternator, so they were covered by the supplier's warrantee.  Then we got the person who was unwilling to pay for all that, so after a quick test the old, working, units went back on. You can bet your life that if any had failed, the customer would not have accepted that they were advised but elected to take the risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.