Guest Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 Interesting vid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 "No-one knows". Perhaps not definitively, but why not Roses and Castles? The rose is depicted as the symbol of England from the Houses of Tudor, Lancaster and York, it's age old. As for Castles, they represent an Englishman's home, and whilst a back cabin was no 'castle', it was his home and so it naturally may have been chosen to represent the strength of a castle and the strength of his home. Just a theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) There are many theories to the basis of "Roses & Castles" as "Canal Art." No one knows the true origin. One, and I am not saying this is set in concrete, was that when financial constraints caused by the up-and-coming railways, caused the boatmen to sell up on the land and move their families aboard the boats. The boats were utilitarian transport vehicles. It was thought that boat wives wanted something that would be more homely. In Victorian England decorated Grandfather clocks, scenic scenes, European castle paintings and flower drawings, including roses were in vogue. Many of the decorations on the boats were painted by the owner boatmen as well as yards. The paintings were their interpretation of what they saw. It doesn't matter if the perspective is incorrect or lacked realism, it was their work. There has been a suggestion that Romany caravan art work had an influence but this has been generally been discounted. Edited February 10, 2023 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Ray T said: In Victorian England decorated Grandfather clocks, scenic scenes, European castle paintings and flower drawings, including roses were in vogue. Many of the decorations on the boats were painted by the owner boatmen as well as yards. The paintings were their interpretation of what they saw. It doesn't matter if the perspective is incorrect or lacked realism, it was their work. And while the taste of land dwellers moved on, the boat dwellers became a rather separate community living in relative isolation from the settled population, and so they stuck with and developed the traditions established when they first started living afloat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgs Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 The image of the scene containing the castle has always struck me as fairy tale and enchantment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardang Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 7 hours ago, Derek R. said: "No-one knows". Perhaps not definitively, but why not Roses and Castles? The rose is depicted as the symbol of England from the Houses of Tudor, Lancaster and York, it's age old. As for Castles, they represent an Englishman's home, and whilst a back cabin was no 'castle', it was his home and so it naturally may have been chosen to represent the strength of a castle and the strength of his home. Just a theory. When I first started the interest in Canals many years ago, I asked the question about the origin of Roses & Castles. It was suggested that because a boatman didn't have a proper castle as in "an Englishman's home is his castle", the painting of a castle was the nearest he could get to one. Similarly, because a boat doesn't have a garden, the roses were the next best thing to having a garden. I have no idea whether there is any truth in these two explanations but they seem as plausible to me as any other. 🌻 🏰 Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dave moore Posted February 10, 2023 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 As someone who has spent much of his adult life applying traditional decoration, lettering and other similar designs to canal boats I found the video a little disappointing with a few factual errors. I’ve been fortunate to apply my craft to those artefacts normally found on working boats, water cans, handbowls , internal decoration and the like and I’ve never ventured in to the souvenir side of the business at all. There is much speculation on the origins of the art form but I believe that the origins lie with popular decoration found in the Victorian period and before. Roses have always been, and still are, a decorative element on some items. Canal landscapes sometimes have a look of those quickly painted on white faced long case clock dials, alongside the reverse paintings on glass from the period. For further reading, “ Flowers Afloat” and “ Narrowboat Painting” by historian and artist Tony Lewery have much to commend them and are thoroughly researched. Despite this, no hard conclusions are forthcoming, little painting survives from the heyday of carrying days before the Great War. Sadly, as time passes, there seems little interest in preserving these traditions by many modern boaters and not all of the souvenir work for sale commemorates the work of the old time dockyard painters. I won’t go on…….. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 What's with the "Grand Master" annotation against avatars? Webmaster getting bored? I've never been a Grand Master of much in my life, let alone boating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 I took this photo in Austria, in a museum about trift, pieces of wood about 4 or 5 feet in length which were flushed down rivers in the spring to supply German cities with fire wood. The museum is near to Vienna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Jones Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 The flowers and landscapes subject was the norm on Staffordshire pottery and Wolverhampton and Bilston painted japanned tinware and papier mâché items, like these examples. This style of decoration would have been seen by working people in the 18th and 19th centuries. So it's not surprising that it was later painted on the inside and outside of boats, and was completely different from fairground and circus decoration which ended up painted on gypsy living wagons and carts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Brightley Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Chris M Jones said: The flowers and landscapes subject was the norm on Staffordshire pottery and Wolverhampton and Bilston painted japanned tinware and papier mâché items, like these examples. I support this theory too. Critically the 1858 'Household Words' article quoted in the video says "painted after the style of the great tea-board school of art"( i.e. the decorations seen on Papier mache trays.) For the record, where did your photos come from ? Edited February 10, 2023 by John Brightley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Jones Posted February 10, 2023 Report Share Posted February 10, 2023 They came from the book ‘Japanned Papier Mâché and Tinware c1740-1940’ by Yvonne Jones published by Antique Collectors’ Club. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted February 11, 2023 Report Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Derek R. said: What's with the "Grand Master" annotation against avatars? Webmaster getting bored? I've never been a Grand Master of much in my life, let alone boating! This annotation business is an insult to contributors. Chris M Jones is far from ranking an "Enthusiast", as are others who have a wealth of knowledge on the history of the canal network. I myself am ranked "Grand Master". It's a joke, based merely upon numbers of postings as far as I can see. Note to webmaster: Please get rid of this pointless annotation against contributors. Edited to add: Judging by the page and a bit comments here: The vast majority of contributors do not want them. Edited February 11, 2023 by Derek R. Added text 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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