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Lister Petter warning light problem


pt2583

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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If it reads 5k ohm then its not a switch but a thermistor sensor whose resistance should alter with temperature to work a gauge. The temperature light switch will be open circuit, infinite resistance, when cold and short circuit, zero resistance when too hot.

OK so looks like I'll have to get a switch for the warning light to work, suppose I could buy a cheap ebay gauge for now and wait until I do a coolant change to get a new switch. I'll probably get one that does both functions, they sell them on dragon marine systems. Anyone any idea of the thread size of temperature sensor on Lister LPWS2.

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4 hours ago, pt2583 said:

Yes diagrams look very similar except for your glow plug set up. Your wiring loom exactly same colours with same non used wires for oil and temperature senders 5 and 8 and Tachometer wire on 7. Did you ever do any tests on temp switch.

No I didn't do any tests on the "switch" so I am not sure now if it is in fact a switch. In the parts list under Protection Switches are shown 

Accessory code MJC (engine Temperature Switc) Water temp switch

Accessory code MJN (Engine Temperature Switch and Gauge Sender . Use with delux starter panel.  "Headstat Switch" and Temperature Sender. Both are shown separate one on each waterpump boss

 

On mine I left the top "switch" as was and added a temperature sender to the bottom boss which runs a gauge on my panel

 

Your boiling water test sounds good. Is it a switch or thermistor? It looks identical to mine. Mine all works (i think as I have never overheated) but I confess I am now not a little confused as to how it works especially the controller! My old controller has BMI written on it. If I am doing a hard run (river, estuary etc) I always have an eye on the gauge which never rises much as long as I keep the blacking thin over the skin tank. Been there. Got the thick blacking over skin tank tee shirt!

 

I am thinking of moving my split charger relay to a more sensible vibration free location but am now wondering if I can just dump the BMI "magic?" box???

 

Not sure if this helps or not. I look forward to hearing your conclusions!

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16 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

No I didn't do any tests on the "switch" so I am not sure now if it is in fact a switch. In the parts list under Protection Switches are shown 

Accessory code MJC (engine Temperature Switc) Water temp switch

Accessory code MJN (Engine Temperature Switch and Gauge Sender . Use with delux starter panel.  "Headstat Switch" and Temperature Sender. Both are shown separate one on each waterpump boss

 

On mine I left the top "switch" as was and added a temperature sender to the bottom boss which runs a gauge on my panel

 

Your boiling water test sounds good. Is it a switch or thermistor? It looks identical to mine. Mine all works (i think as I have never overheated) but I confess I am now not a little confused as to how it works especially the controller! My old controller has BMI written on it. If I am doing a hard run (river, estuary etc) I always have an eye on the gauge which never rises much as long as I keep the blacking thin over the skin tank. Been there. Got the thick blacking over skin tank tee shirt!

 

I am thinking of moving my split charger relay to a more sensible vibration free location but am now wondering if I can just dump the BMI "magic?" box???

 

Not sure if this helps or not. I look forward to hearing your conclusions!

Yes I was also wondering if I could use the second plug instead, from my photo not sure if that pipe (believe it's fuel) is in the way, difficult to tell from photo. Will check on next vist

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3 hours ago, pt2583 said:

 

 

OK so looks like I'll have to get a switch for the warning light to work, suppose I could buy a cheap ebay gauge for now and wait until I do a coolant change to get a new switch. I'll probably get one that does both functions, they sell them on dragon marine systems. Anyone any idea of the thread size of temperature sensor on Lister LPWS2.

 

 

1/8 npt note npt not bsp !!

 

A lot of the ebay 52mm temp gauges come with a 1/8 npt sender anyway.

 

The official lister temp warning light switch is about £40 quid i think 

 

Part no I have is 329-15140. Its easy to knock them as they stick out from the thermostat housing. (DAMHIK)

 

 

Edited by jonathanA
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3 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, pt2583 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK so looks like I'll have to get a switch for the warning light to work, suppose I could buy a cheap ebay gauge for now and wait until I do a coolant change to get a new switch. I'll probably get one that does both functions, they sell them on dragon marine systems. Anyone any idea of the thread size of temperature sensor on Lister LPWS2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1/8 npt note npt not bsp !!

 

 

 

A lot of the ebay 52mm temp gauges come with a 1/8 npt sender anyway.

 

 

The official lister temp warning light switch is about £40 quid i think 

 

Part no I have is 329-15140. Its easy to knock them as they stick out from the thermostat housing. (DAMHIK)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, pt2583 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK so looks like I'll have to get a switch for the warning light to work, suppose I could buy a cheap ebay gauge for now and wait until I do a coolant change to get a new switch. I'll probably get one that does both functions, they sell them on dragon marine systems. Anyone any idea of the thread size of temperature sensor on Lister LPWS2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1/8 npt note npt not bsp !!

 

 

 

A lot of the ebay 52mm temp gauges come with a 1/8 npt sender anyway.

 

 

The official lister temp warning light switch is about £40 quid i think 

 

Part no I have is 329-15140. Its easy to knock them as they stick out from the thermostat housing. (DAMHIK)

 

That's very helpful many thanks

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32 minutes ago, pt2583 said:

Yes I was also wondering if I could use the second plug instead, from my photo not sure if that pipe (believe it's fuel) is in the way, difficult to tell from photo. Will check on next vist

I had a polar rubber end cap in the way but managed to bend the spade contacts so that it fitted quite neatly. It’s well out of the way being next to the bulkhead. I got one with neutral return ie 2 contacts. Details attached but can’t remember where I got sender. I’ve no photo after I fitted itF32315F9-3BBA-4DAF-8026-F57F1EBE6F95.jpeg.d12c3462ac8beeea796c6e73dc128117.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

I had a polar rubber end cap in the way but managed to bend the spade contacts so that it fitted quite neatly. It’s well out of the way being next to the bulkhead. I got one with neutral return ie 2 contacts. Details attached but can’t remember where I got sender. I’ve no photo after I fitted itF32315F9-3BBA-4DAF-8026-F57F1EBE6F95.jpeg.d12c3462ac8beeea796c6e73dc128117.jpeg

You don't happen to know the thread size of the lower plug, I think it's larger than top one, which JonathanA said is 1/8 NTP.

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incidentally I use the 'larger' oil filter on my LPSW4 part no 328 21600 which i use instead of the smaller 'standard' one because there is enough room for it. one version of the Manual suggests using the larger filter you can increase the interval to 250 hours, but as per the comments in this thread, the advice I always had is to stick to 100 hours, although I do feel like I have a bit of 'safety' with the larger filter if I do need to go slightly beyond 100 hours.  

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27 minutes ago, pt2583 said:

 

You don't happen to know the thread size of the lower plug, I think it's larger than top one, which JonathanA said is 1/8 NTP.

 

 

 

not sure that is where the calorifier is normally plumbed into. the 'official' kit for connecting a cauliflower includes fitting that goes there and that fitting has another 1/8 NPT tap in it. Its easy to get various adapters from Ebay and the like if you know what size you need.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think at one stage I had a 'Tee piece' fitted with temp gauge sender in one side and the warning light switch in the other. But I didn't like that then found the other hole. I think there is another 1/8 plug on the other side or front of the thermostat housing. cant quite remember and donlt have any pics to hand. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by jonathanA
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26 minutes ago, pt2583 said:

You don't happen to know the thread size of the lower plug, I think it's larger than top one, which JonathanA said is 1/8 NTP.

Suggest you contact Sleeman Hawker. They usually have drawings of parts. I can’t find any reference of my dealings with Peter T

 

also just found 2010 thread “BMC glow plug timer relay”. I haven’t had time to read but looks very relevant to our puzzle! LPWS people chipping in!

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8 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

found this picture which shows the cauliflower supply fitting.  

 

I'm pretty sure there is another tap on the thermostat housing where you could fit another switch/sender. 

 

20220911_140816.jpg

If you look at his photos he hasn’t got a calorifier just a plug where your adapter  fits and wants to know what thread this plug is so he can get a sender to match. Same as I did, I din’t Have a calorifier  either. What he is looking for is the thread on plug 751-40680?

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1 hour ago, Peugeot 106 said:

If you look at his photos he hasn’t got a calorifier just a plug where your adapter  fits and wants to know what thread this plug is so he can get a sender to match. Same as I did, I din’t Have a calorifier  either. What he is looking for is the thread on plug 751-40680?

The sender/switch and the blanking plug (the one partially obscured by the fuel pipe in the photo) have what appears to be sealing washers under the hexagonal head. This would suggest that the threads are a parallel type, needing a washer achieve a seal. I’m not convinced that the blanking plug is original, perhaps @Steve56 could comment please.

Edited by Eeyore
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5 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

The sender/switch and the blanking plug (the one partially obscured by the fuel pipe in the photo) have what appears to be sealing washers under the hexagonal head. This would suggest that the threads are a parallel type, needing a washer achieve a seal. I’m not convinced that the blanking plug is original, perhaps @Steve56 could comment please.

If I remember correctly there are a couple of tappings in the water pump. The smaller one is 1/8 BSP and the larger one is 3/8 BSP. On the photo the calorifier take off union is fitted to the larger hole. The switch that is screwed into it is 1/8 BSP, but with a parallel thread. Therefore will have a copper washer fitted.

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6 minutes ago, Steve56 said:

If I remember correctly there are a couple of tappings in the water pump. The smaller one is 1/8 BSP and the larger one is 3/8 BSP. On the photo the calorifier take off union is fitted to the larger hole. The switch that is screwed into it is 1/8 BSP, but with a parallel thread. Therefore will have a copper washer fitted.

There's mine before I put sender inIMG_8518.JPG.a74075e816882c3f655328ca417d88cd.JPG

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1 hour ago, Steve56 said:

If I remember correctly there are a couple of tappings in the water pump. The smaller one is 1/8 BSP and the larger one is 3/8 BSP. On the photo the calorifier take off union is fitted to the larger hole. The switch that is screwed into it is 1/8 BSP, but with a parallel thread. Therefore will have a copper washer fitted.

are you sure they are BSP ? the sender /switches on mine are definitely 1/8 NPT.  I don't know about the cauliflower take off union as mine was already fitted.  I could see that being BSP perversely ! 

the problem is that 1/8 BSP/NPT are almost identical (think the thread profile or pitch is different) so its possible to force fit  one into the other if you are a shaved gorilla. it could be that you can put NPT in BSP but not the other way round - not sure . unfortunately all my BSP/NPT fittings and bits are on the boat and I'm at home or I'd have a try and put up the photos, I know I went through several combinations of NPT/BSP fittings and adapters to fit a gauge sender. (which is an aftermarket car one with a 1/8th NPT sender)

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3 hours ago, jonathanA said:

are you sure they are BSP ? the sender /switches on mine are definitely 1/8 NPT.  I don't know about the cauliflower take off union as mine was already fitted.  I could see that being BSP perversely ! 

the problem is that 1/8 BSP/NPT are almost identical (think the thread profile or pitch is different) so its possible to force fit  one into the other if you are a shaved gorilla. it could be that you can put NPT in BSP but not the other way round - not sure . unfortunately all my BSP/NPT fittings and bits are on the boat and I'm at home or I'd have a try and put up the photos, I know I went through several combinations of NPT/BSP fittings and adapters to fit a gauge sender. (which is an aftermarket car one with a 1/8th NPT sender)

BSP and NPT (i.e British and USA pipe thread standards) are both available in taper and parallel forms.

BSP uses a 55deg thread form and NPT uses a 60deg thread form. 

Shaved gorilla's can easily force the tapered threads of each type together, even though for most of each range the pitch is incompatible. They can also, far more easily, fit any taper thread into any parallel threaded hole.

Where the shaved gorilla really excels is in the fitting of parallel fitting into taper threaded holes, the shear volume of PTFE tape can be quite overwhelming.

8A43C7B4-ADF7-4A39-87D0-24DC06D807B8.jpeg

Edited by Eeyore
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5 hours ago, jonathanA said:

are you sure they are BSP ? the sender /switches on mine are definitely 1/8 NPT.  I don't know about the cauliflower take off union as mine was already fitted.  I could see that being BSP perversely ! 

the problem is that 1/8 BSP/NPT are almost identical (think the thread profile or pitch is different) so its possible to force fit  one into the other if you are a shaved gorilla. it could be that you can put NPT in BSP but not the other way round - not sure . unfortunately all my BSP/NPT fittings and bits are on the boat and I'm at home or I'd have a try and put up the photos, I know I went through several combinations of NPT/BSP fittings and adapters to fit a gauge sender. (which is an aftermarket car one with a 1/8th NPT sender)

I would just ask Sleeman or Lister Petter. There’s plenty else can go wrong with an LPWS without sweating this one! You can bugger up NPT with BSP and vice verse that’s for sure what’s the point? Just buy a plug and measure it if you need to! I got the correct one including insulated earth sorry I can’t find where I got it from. I normally keep better records

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2 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

I would just ask Sleeman or Lister Petter. There’s plenty else can go wrong with an LPWS without sweating this one! You can bugger up NPT with BSP and vice verse that’s for sure what’s the point? Just buy a plug and measure it if you need to! I got the correct one including insulated earth sorry I can’t find where I got it from. I normally keep better records

Yes you're right I'll ring them tomorrow see what that say

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8 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

There's mine before I put sender inIMG_8518.JPG.a74075e816882c3f655328ca417d88cd.JPG

Personally I wouldn't use that fitting for a temperature sender. That position is for cool water return to the pump so therefore will not give an  accurate temperature reading. You could overheat your engine well before any alarm is given.

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9 hours ago, Steve56 said:

Personally I wouldn't use that fitting for a temperature sender. That position is for cool water return to the pump so therefore will not give an  accurate temperature reading. You could overheat your engine well before any alarm is given.

Yes you are I think correct. Now I look at the pump the water comes out of the skin tank, through the pump and my gauge in the bottom boss is reading it immediately before it enters the block. Probably not ideal. I suppose a combined switch/sender would be ideal in the top boss. Can you get these? In fairness to me this was approved by a well known expert. The alarm (now not sure if it’s a switch or thermistor!) is plumbed into the top boss. Thank you for more troubles. What you say makes sense but maybe ignorance was bliss!

 

i am using the glow duration unit  shown below. Do you know if the temperature switch has anything to do with this or the circuits 9CB82C26-18E3-4716-855B-324FF83BCF18.jpeg.1536a10aca875fe6a70d8f40f5fffa89.jpegindependent of each other?

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12 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

I would just ask Sleeman or Lister Petter. There’s plenty else can go wrong with an LPWS without sweating this one! You can bugger up NPT with BSP and vice verse that’s for sure what’s the point? Just buy a plug and measure it if you need to! I got the correct one including insulated earth sorry I can’t find where I got it from. I normally keep better records

Called sleeman this morning and the chap I spoke said the thread on top hole is 1/8 NPT and the bottom is 3/8 NPT. They have both a switch 915-14032 (normally open cct) and sender 710-41275 and adaptor for bottom hole 757-17400 all in stock.

Switch £23 +vat

Sender £20 +vat

Adaptor £6 + vat

 

Going to carry out test on existing sender later this week, if that works I'll order new switch and and adapter to fit once I alter the fuel pipe to accommodate fitting

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2 minutes ago, pt2583 said:

Called sleeman this morning and the chap I spoke said the thread on top hole is 1/8 NPT and the bottom is 3/8 NPT. They have both a switch 915-14032 (normally open cct) and sender 710-41275 and adaptor for bottom hole 757-17400 all in stock.

Switch £23 +vat

Sender £20 +vat

Adaptor £6 + vat

 

Going to carry out test on existing sender later this week, if that works I'll order new switch and and adapter to fit once I alter the fuel pipe to accommodate fitting

Sounds good. I’d be interested to know where the switch and sensor are sited when a delux panel is specified? A combined unit might be better in the top hole in light of what Steve has thrown into the mix!

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48 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Yes you are I think correct. Now I look at the pump the water comes out of the skin tank, through the pump and my gauge in the bottom boss is reading it immediately before it enters the block. Probably not ideal. I suppose a combined switch/sender would be ideal in the top boss. Can you get these? In fairness to me this was approved by a well known expert. The alarm (now not sure if it’s a switch or thermistor!) is plumbed into the top boss. Thank you for more troubles. What you say makes sense but maybe ignorance was bliss!

 

i am using the glow duration unit  shown below. Do you know if the temperature switch has anything to do with this or the circuits 9CB82C26-18E3-4716-855B-324FF83BCF18.jpeg.1536a10aca875fe6a70d8f40f5fffa89.jpegindependent of each other?

I need to check which bosses I have used. I have a pump on the bench and there are actually 4 bosses on it. The top two would be ok ( the 1/8” and 3/8”). I have no photos       of the sender after installation so need to check which boss I have mounted it in. I’m actually now pretty sure they are in the correct upper bosses.

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1 hour ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Sounds good. I’d be interested to know where the switch and sensor are sited when a delux panel is specified? A combined unit might be better in the top hole in light of what Steve has thrown into the mix!

I dont have the deluxe panel, but the wiring loom supports it.  there are two sets of connectors one pair for the temp warning light and the other for the temp gauge sender.  Obviously both designed to be insulted return.  so nothing to stop you using a combined switch/gauge sender if you can find one. 

 

you can see the two sets of connectors in my Pic, but i'm only using one of the gauge wires as my aftermarket sender is a single terminal (earth to engine) version with the  yellow wire, and the spare 'negative' unused in my case is hanging loose behind the switch wires.   This meant I could use the gauge wire already in the loom and connect a gauge to the other end saving me running a new wire. 

 

I'm pretty sure there is another 1/8 tap in the thermostat housing, where the warning light switch was originally fitted, but it was easy to knock that when clambering around the engine or working on the alternator drive belt so I moved it out of the way. 

 

1 hour ago, pt2583 said:

Called sleeman this morning and the chap I spoke said the thread on top hole is 1/8 NPT and the bottom is 3/8 NPT. They have both a switch 915-14032 (normally open cct) and sender 710-41275 and adaptor for bottom hole 757-17400 all in stock.

Switch £23 +vat

Sender £20 +vat

Adaptor £6 + vat

 

Going to carry out test on existing sender later this week, if that works I'll order new switch and and adapter to fit once I alter the fuel pipe to accommodate fitting

 

thanks for coming back, I was pretty sure that i was right about the 1/8 NPT vs BSP thing as I spent ages with all sorts of adapters when I first fitted my temp gauge and I know the senders are nearly always 1/8 NPT (M10 is also quite common). Might be worth looking for that other hole on thermostat housing to save moving the pipe. 

 

 

 

 

 

20220911_140816.jpg

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