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Just now, magnetman said:

Yes but a toll would be charged as long as you were on the water in a certain area not just how often you used moveable structures. 

That's the opposite of a payment per mile and per lock, then... 😉

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Just now, IanD said:

That's the opposite of a payment per mile and per lock, then... 😉

 

Well presumably such a scheme would also have a mooring fee associated with it otherwise it obviously can't work. 

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

A bit like a licence you mean ? 😏

 

Regional licenses with a daily rate rather than national licenses with a yearly rate. So yes similar in a way but would enable targeted revenue for areas people want to use. 

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Just now, Jon57 said:

Even them in a marina 🤭standard licence fee plus pay as you go fee👍

This is why the suggestion about a CC surcharge (based on usage) is so divisive -- on one hand it would get more money out of the CMers/towpath squatters who just want to stay in one place as cheaply as possible by bending or ignoring the rules, on the other hand it would penalise the "real CCers" who actually roam round the system and for who the CC exception (no home mooring) was introduced in the first place.

 

Maybe the way round this would be a "CM surcharge" (+100%?) for those who move as little as possible, and an exception for those CCers who move much bigger distances -- and set the distance threshold high enough that the CMers couldn't *possibly* claim to meet it?

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3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Well presumably such a scheme would also have a mooring fee associated with it otherwise it obviously can't work. 

 

Regional licenses with a daily rate rather than national licenses with a yearly rate. So yes similar in a way but would enable targeted revenue for areas people want to use. 

 

Higher licenses/fees for honeypots is another idea which sounds attractive at first, but the problem is detection and enforcement -- without massively more checkers and accurate recordkeeping and penalties with more teeth it would have little or no effect on the boaters who basically already ignore the rules.

 

Anything fixed and to do with the boat itself (length/width/age) is a lot simpler and harder to evade than anything based on location/usage/distance/locks which needs continual monitoring.

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1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

Higher licenses/fees for honeypots is another idea which sounds attractive at first, but the problem is detection and enforcement -- without massively more checkers and accurate recordkeeping and penalties with more teeth it would have little or no effect on the boaters who basically already ignore the rules.

 

Anything fixed and to do with the boat itself (length/width/age) is a lot simpler and harder to evade than anything based on location/usage/distance/locks which needs continual monitoring.

Good points. 

 

It would be interesting to see how much evasion goes up when increases come. If you are just assuming people will choose evasion then there is not a lot that can be done without teeth and enforcement. That's the whole problem..

 

Root and branch reform needed really. Won't happen. 

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5 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Now we are thinking outside of the box then.🤭

Great idea -- but how do you prove a boat went through a lock? ANPR for boats using a camera network? Compulsory GPS trackers on every boat? An army of volockies with log books? 😉

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

Good points. 

 

It would be interesting to see how much evasion goes up when increases come. If you are just assuming people will choose evasion then there is not a lot that can be done without teeth and enforcement. That's the whole problem..

 

Root and branch reform needed really. Won't happen. 

How do you evade a license fee set by things you can't easily fiddle, like the length/width/age of your boat?

 

Except for pure license fee evasion, which would be less of a problem if boats still had to display their license number. It works for cars...

Edited by IanD
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10 minutes ago, MtB said:

A fixed licence of say £1k for everyone, with a refund of say £1 for every lock passed though during the licence period...

 

I proposed that some time ago, but I suggested a £5k licence and (say) £1 per mile deducted / credited to the next year licence.

It could even be graduated at (say) £5/mile for the 1st 200 miles, £2/mile for the next 200 miles, £1/mile thereafter.

Yes - it would require trackers to be fitted, but, if you've nothing to hide why are you worried ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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6 minutes ago, MtB said:

A fixed licence of say £1k for everyone, with a refund of say £1 for every lock passed though during the licence period...

 

Cool.  Doing the BCN challenge would get 10% of the licence fee back in 24 hours!

 

I'd get nearly a third of it back by the time I'd got there, done the challenge and come back.

 

Or I could just go up and down Wigan flight fifty times in a year and get paid for boating!

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Just now, George and Dragon said:

How about a flat rate and a discount for every mile and lock?

How to detect and enforce it -- see above. Given the famously anti-establishment anti-technology attitude of many boaters, what's the chance of everyone agreeing to have GPS trackers fitted so Big Brother can track their movements? 😉

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Just now, IanD said:

How to detect and enforce it -- see above. Given the famously anti-establishment anti-technology attitude of many boaters, what's the chance of everyone agreeing to have GPS trackers fitted so Big Brother can track their movements? 😉

All ready do with our mobile phones I believe.

  • Greenie 1
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1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

 

 

Or I could just go up and down Wigan flight fifty times in a year and get paid for boating!

Did you mean masochism

 

1 minute ago, Jon57 said:

All ready do with our mobile phones I believe.

 

And cars with forward and rear facing number plates. 

 

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7 minutes ago, IanD said:

How to detect and enforce it -- see above. Given the famously anti-establishment anti-technology attitude of many boaters, what's the chance of everyone agreeing to have GPS trackers fitted so Big Brother can track their movements? 😉

No black box, no discount.

 

Could be graduated - the more disused the waterway the greater the discount

Edited by George and Dragon
added a bit
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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Far from it, I quite like Wigan Flight.

 

The fact that one of the best pubs in the country is a few hundred yards from the bottom of it may or may not be relevant ...

I'd say exactly the same about the Delph Flight... 😉

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