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C W Boatmover


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His mate came past at a stupid speed, he came past quite/very fast, and I did shout, however, if you are going to display your boatmoving company name on a magnetic plaque🤪, then it didnt take me too long to link the two boats coming from the Gt Ouse together and work out exactly how fast they were pushing those boats.

As far as the owner , no idea, not up to me to find out, and I suppose the only way they would know is if the boatmover broke down, or they were also on social media and saw their boat subject to comment.

When the other forum member contacted me about the Hopwas woods incident, they were obviously just going for it over the whole journey.

Hopefully, even though he never commented on that thread, I believe the feedback was taken on board, as I have seen the boats on numerous occasions since being piloted far more in keeping with the local environs.

Edited by matty40s
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On 06/02/2023 at 23:18, PD1964 said:

Means absolutely nothing, I can get hold of trade plates and get insurance, do a one day RYA Helmsman course. But doesn’t mean I’m a professional boat mover. No bonafide website, just social media means nothing.

Anyone can move boats and stick it on Instagram, Facebook.

 

Anyone can set up a website too and it may also mean absolutely nothing if you're looking at it from that perspective. There's no obligation (legal or otherwise) for any bone fide business to have a website and not having one doesn't necessarily reflect on the validity of the business. I've used plenty of boat related businesses from signwriters to BSS inspectors who didn't have a website and they were all fine.

 

I'm not saying anything about this particular boat mover because I know nothing about him, but I'm not sure that you do either and I think you're using the wrong criterion to judge.

 

Edited by blackrose
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CRTs criteria for boatmovers to be registered as a business operating on their waters are:

 

- MCA boatmaster or equivalent (for which the RYA IW Helmsman certificate is deemed equivalent for Cat A and B inland waters)

- £2m of third party liability insurance

 

So the 'qualifications' listed by the OP are actually CRTs view of things. They will also not issue trade plates until those criteria are satisfied.

 

While CRT protect themselves and their users with the third party insurance requirements, that of course does not cover the boat being moved in any way. It's important to understand that as a sole trader (which surely is a business but NOT a company) you are personally liable for any costs arising from damage or loss to the boat while in your care, whether your fault or otherwise.

 

That requires additional insurance which will almost certainly be limited in it's liability (because as I understand it underwriters will not extend to the sort of value that brand new - or even very high end second hand - boats sell for these days). It's entirely possible to leave yourself a liability which you cannot meet, and at the same time put your customer at risk.

 

Also if you're working as a sole trader and engaging others in your business the law on employers liability insurance needs to be understood to ensure that your and your business partner's affairs are demonstrably separate. That applies equally to insurance arrangements as it does to income and tax.

 

There seems to be a growing demand for boat moving services and accordingly a growing number of people involved in providing the service. Judging by some comments on this forum I think it's possible at some point there may be an incident that fundamentally changes the way things work.

 

 

Edited by Captain Pegg
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20 hours ago, C W Boatmover said:

Thanks all for your advice and wisdom 😊 

 

As I live onboard my own Narrowboat with my young family and Mrs, using the Post Office was the best way to collect my mail as I don’t have any family (or many friends 👀) in that area. 
 

I take the information I’ve received and will work something out, I gather the address seems an issue for a lot of you
 

I will look to get that address changed, but as I’m sure you’ll appreciate when applying for Trade Plates it was deemed acceptable by the CRT
 

Thanks all 😊 

 

It’s not a scam, I was just checking to see if this is the place for it to join in with the community and from what I’ve seen, perhaps not! 😂 

 

I accept the fact I made a mistake by posting an Ad in the first place… not again. 
 

Take care folk 👋🏻 

There are quite a few dinosaurs around . . .

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21 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Is it? He passed himself off as a registered company, he does not seem to have given the address of his registered office as required of a registered company. Now explain why doing that is not illegal.

 

As I said, I doubt he is a registered company, so the address can be anything he chooses, but passing himself off as a registered company is not very bright and could conceivably lead to further problems. It is all to do with language, and using words other than company would be a good idea. Try substituting the word "business" and the company thing disappears.

He's never said he's a Limited Company, which seems to be what you're muddling up beung a company with. A company just means you work with other people - that's what company means.

As you say, language is important.

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13 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

A company just means you work with other people - that's what company means.

 

 

Not legally it doesn't - when talking about commercial business there are very strict definitions of a 'company' in the Companies Act 2006

 

If you have never been self employed, or set up a 'company', it is understandable that there could be a misunderstanding about what a company is.

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56 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Not legally it doesn't - when talking about commercial business there are very strict definitions of a 'company' in the Companies Act 2006

 

If you have never been self employed, or set up a 'company', it is understandable that there could be a misunderstanding about what a company is.

Fairynuff. I've been self employed most of my life but never been a company. I was a partnership for a while due to bad advice! I think I was an association after that,  can't remember.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Not legally it doesn't - when talking about commercial business there are very strict definitions of a 'company' in the Companies Act 2006

 

If you have never been self employed, or set up a 'company', it is understandable that there could be a misunderstanding about what a company is.

Is this web site wrong then

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Not legally it doesn't - when talking about commercial business there are very strict definitions of a 'company' in the Companies Act 2006

 

If you have never been self employed, or set up a 'company', it is understandable that there could be a misunderstanding about what a company is.

Can you tell which para in that Act has the construction you put on it? As far as I can see, the Act is limited to companies that claim certain facts, eg limited, registered. I cannot see a prohibition on using the name  'xxxx company' for an unregistered body so long as it does not claim what is not true.

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2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

He's never said he's a Limited Company, which seems to be what you're muddling up beung a company with. A company just means you work with other people - that's what company means.

As you say, language is important.

 

This is true, but look at this statement he made in the edited version of his first post and was also in the original.

 

"I’m Connor the owner of C W Boatmover. One of the UKs leading Narrowboat delivery companies."

 

To my mind the question is does or could someone take this to imply it is a registered company, and if anyone did that would be "passing off". All I have tried to say is that it would be better to avoid any danger of this and use something like "businesses".

 

There seems many parallels between this discussion and the ones about the need for the RCR/RCD documentation, where a number of members seem happy to advise that legislation can be ignored.

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On 07/02/2023 at 15:00, C W Boatmover said:

 

As I live onboard my own Narrowboat with my young family and Mrs, using the Post Office was the best way to collect my mail as I don’t have any family (or many friends 👀) in that area. 
 

I take the information I’ve received and will work something out, I gather the address seems an issue for a lot of you

 

 

Hardly. 

 

It's the misrepresentation that's the issue. No-one cares where you live, but if they look up the address you give and see you obviously don't live where you say you do, it damages your credibility and your reputation. If they look up your company and find it doesn't exist, it further damages your credibility and your reputation. 

 

But it's your business to do as you like with. Its just that honesty and openness matters to people like me (although not everyone obviously) and if I were looking for a boat mover, uncovering such shadiness would make me walk on by and find someone more straight about their affairs. 

 

I don't mind really how you present yourself. Dismiss and reject what Tony and I say by all means. I suspect you are losing business overt this though. Not much, just the odd person here and there wanting a boat moved and who quietly checks you out then decides "no", when they might otherwise have decided "yes".

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3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Can you tell which para in that Act has the construction you put on it? As far as I can see, the Act is limited to companies that claim certain facts, eg limited, registered. I cannot see a prohibition on using the name  'xxxx company' for an unregistered body so long as it does not claim what is not true.

Paragraph 9 (of Companies Act 2006) requires all companies to be registered, whether public or private, limited or unlimited.

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I don't think there's any reason why someone operating a business with employees can't refer to their business as a company. Unless they register it with Companies House, it doesn't affect their status as a sole trader. I think they can call it whatever they like - it doesn't necessarily have a legal meaning, it just implies you don't work entirely on your tod.  I also can't see how it can give anyone an "impression" of anything,  unless theyvare naive enough to believe that any business with Co Ltd after it's name is guaranteed to be wonderful - after all, the whole "Ltd" business is used as a scam by huge numbers of small building firms (and a few big ones) in the country. That's how entrepreneurs get rich (see collapsed energy companies for details!). At least a sole trader takes the responsibility for his business on his own shoulders.

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43 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I don't think there's any reason why someone operating a business with employees can't refer to their business as a company. Unless they register it with Companies House, it doesn't affect their status as a sole trader. I think they can call it whatever they like - it doesn't necessarily have a legal meaning, it just implies you don't work entirely on your tod.  I also can't see how it can give anyone an "impression" of anything,  unless theyvare naive enough to believe that any business with Co Ltd after it's name is guaranteed to be wonderful - after all, the whole "Ltd" business is used as a scam by huge numbers of small building firms (and a few big ones) in the country. That's how entrepreneurs get rich (see collapsed energy companies for details!). At least a sole trader takes the responsibility for his business on his own shoulders.

 

 

What a load of uninformed twaddle. 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I don't think there's any reason why someone operating a business with employees can't refer to their business as a company. Unless they register it with Companies House, it doesn't affect their status as a sole trader

 

Are there many 'sole traders' who have employes.

 

One you employ people you have to Register your 'Business name and address" (Note : NOT COMPANY name) with HMRC as an employer, take out employers liability insurance, set up a pension plan for your staff, pay holiday pay, deduct income tax and NI at source, pay a minimum wage, issue contracts of employment, be responsible for their training and development, and keep up to date with employment law, amongst other things.

 

A sole trader is totally reponsible for all of the companies actions (hence the name) - you are the ONLY person who can make decisons, employing staff is such a time consuming faff that it leaves little time to actually run the company let alone do the actual work you set up the company to do.

 

I am glad we closed down the businesses when I retired in 2005 - it was becoming a nightmare even then. 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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I am a sole trader and limited company, and until recently had an employee (as a sole trader, not via the company) so I could bring some facts here, but I would hate to spoil a good argument with something as trivial as facts so I will just keep quiet and carry on with the bottle of cider 😀

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6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

You can't beat a reasoned argument. Nice to see you've returned to your usual level.

 

 

The true situation has been explained several times in this thread by people who know.

 

So why would I type it all out again when you obviously don't accept it?

 

 

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11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are there many 'sole traders' who have employes.

 

One you employ people you have to Register your 'Business name and address" (Note : NOT COMPANY name) with HMRC as an employer, take out employers liability insurance, set up a pension plan for your staff, pay holiday pay, deduct income tax and NI at source, pay a minimum wage, issue contracts of employment, be responsible for their training and development, and keep up to date with employment law, amongst other things.

 

A sole trader is totally reponsible for all of the companies actions (hence the name) - you are the ONLY person who can make decisons, employing staff is such a time consuming faff that it leaves little time to actually run the company let alone do the actual work you set up the company to do.

 

I am glad we closed down the businesses when I retired in 2005 - it was becoming a nightmare even then. 

 

back in the day we used to have up to 30 employees whilst still 'Sole Trader' (even though there were two of us!)

 

Remember that you can actually subcontract out much of the work of doing PAYE etc etc. After a long while of doing it ourselves and then having a staff member do it, we found it was much better to use an expert for this and we could concentrate our admin time on the core of the business.

Edited by Mike Todd
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