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My Sailaway Decisions - Good & Bad


system 4-50

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Decision 035.  Water Supply.  Mostly GOOD.

There is no way that I would have an integral water tank, even though the bow locker was available.

I also dismissed the idea of a stainless steel tank because I think its flexible nature makes it unsuitable.

I wanted plastic and went for 2 x 400L layflat plastic tanks from Forest of The Dean, the ones with 8" lids.

They went under the large fixed bed in the bedroom which was made around them.  They were as close as I could make them to the centreline of the boat so that filling & emptying only made a very slight difference to the list of the boat. The lids were at the bow ends.

I blanked off the built-in outlets as they came off at floor level.  I made holes in the 8" lids for:

15mm JG tank adapter - inlet

22mm JG tank adapter (drilled through) - outlet

22mm JG tank adapter - air vent to hull fitting

??mm - Wema tank level sensor

The tank inlets were each connected via an electric valve to a single 15mm JG pipe to a hozelock fitting in the welldeck area adjacent to the bow doors.

The outlets were connected to a manual 4-way valve which allowed either, both, or no way through to a Jabsco ?? pump.  This pump was a flow sensitive type that did not need an accumulator.  The pump was connected to an adjacent JG manifold which was connected to the kitchen sink, the washing machine, the Morco instant water heater, the bathroom handbasin, and the toilet, so that any individual line could be isolated.

Filling was achieved by Hozelocking the hose to the welldeck fitting and delivering water at mains (ha ha!) pressure.  When the tanks (either or both) were full a a Teensy microcomputer closed the valves and sounded a beeper.  The Teensy also showed the tank levels on a 3.5" TFT screen.

This was great fun to do and I went through many incremental changes to get to this position.

I did at one time have the Teensy announcing (real sound!) the minutes left to "full".

Revisiting,

1. I would go to the trouble of using 19mm hose pipe to minimise flow resistance to the boat, which I might later regret as 19mm is big and bulky, upgrade the inlet pipe sizes, and increase the electric valve sizes (which would be very much more expensive), to reduce the filling time from typically 80 minutes from both empty to both full.

2. Rework the tank lids to ensure they could withstand being overfilled at mains pressure.  Maybe increase the air vent hull fitting which was Colecraft's and only 15mm (or less?).  They had allowed for standard gravity filling.

3. I would investigate having a bespoke plastic tank built into the bow locker are better still, under the welldeck (on sprayfoam) at hull build time.

Notes:

The pump sucked the water from the tank through the lid at the top.  Once the pump had filled the pipe between the tank(s) and the pump it stayed good for months even when the boat was unused!  I never had it fail. To get this filled eg after the tanks had been drained right out, it was necessary to run the pump with any one outlet eg sink open! Without this the pump would run for hours and do nothing.  It scared me the first time it happened until I realised what was going on.

Taking the water out of the top reduced the chance of some types of leakage but still did not prevent a downstream leak that was below the tank water level as syphonage could occur but that never happened to me.

3. The no-way setting of the 4-way valve was unfortunate.  Inadvertantly choosing this could destroy the pump!

4. The entire tanks setup was enclosed in 1" Celotext, around, underneath, and on top.  No condensation in the area was ever observed.

5. Some effort was taken to ensure the tanks could not slide eg in a collision.

Edited by system 4-50
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Decision 036.  Bedroom Layout.  GOOD.

I never had any doubts about my bedroom layout.  The bed was homemade around the two water tanks and was quite high in consequence.  I could just swing myself up onto it but others needed a step, I provided one of those small plastic collapsible ones and that worked well. The bed base was sprung wooden slats from Ikea.  The foam mattress came from Ikea as well in a roll and was the most comfortable mattress I have ever slept on.  The bed was fixed and not extendable and at 200 x 140cm it did not need to be.  Being a generous size it left only the minimum BSS size of side passage from the bathroom to the bow doors.  Lifting the mattress (as chance would have it, on edge it could be wedged against the ceiling) gave access to all the tank fittings as they were on the top, but doing work required the lifting of the slats frames (2 pieces) which was not hard but the size made them awkward.

There were 2 x 3ft top hoppers and as the coldest windows on the boat, were inclined to get condensation.  The far corner at one time had a shelf to take a travel cot.  Other features of the room will be covered under other headings.  Changes?  I would dispense with the window on the bed side of the room, it was unnecessary. 

 

Decision 037.  Bathroom Layout.  GOOD.

The bathroom was off a side passage between the bedroom and the saloon.  I did not consider a through-bathroom.  It contained a shower, a toilet, a tiny washbasin, and a ceiling-high set of Elna wire baskets for textiles storage.  It also contained almost all the plumbing fittings.  I put the toilet and baskets against the bedroom wall which was a piece of the 25mm ply used for the floor ( i had ordered a spare 8 x 4 board before I knew what I wanted to do with it).  This was a minor error as it did not minimise the toilet noise for usage in the night.  The minute handbasin, perfect for washing hands and cleaning teeth but nothing else, was under the 18" x 24" deep window which had no opening.  Strangely, this did not suffer from condensation.  On the stern side was the shower.  The door lock needed to be capable of being overridden from outside so that children could not get locked in.

 

Decision 038. Toilet. EXCELLENT.

I went for pumpout (PO).  During the first few years I used a 365 Portapotti which required emptying every few days.  I found lifting the damn cassette hard work

and the emptying a big factor in determining when I had to move, and some Elsan points were disgusting.  No, absolutely NO way.  (Other opinions are available.)  I also knew from hire-boat experience that some PO installations particularly drop-throughs were smelly and disgusting.  I chose a china Jabsco DeLuxe Flush.  It was excellent.  The amount of water used was highly controllable and it was easy to operate.  I connected it via a long piece of white hose that ran though the bedroom to the PO tank in the bow.  The white hose was sold as suitable for toilet waste, and it was, for about 18 months to 2 years.  Then it began to smell.  I replaced it with a long length of very thick-walled ABS piping (which cost a fortune) and a short bit of white hose that could be easily replaced for the connection.  This solved the problem.  The piping rose immediate beside the toilet and then flowed downhill through the bedroom to the tank.  Having a poo pipe running beside the bed might bother some folk but it was a very solid pipe and it didn't bother me.  After all, we all carry poo about!  Every 2 years approx the non-return valve in the toilet needed replacing and this was surprisingly easy and nearly pong-free.  

The Jabsco was sold as being quiet and it was not.  Ok, if you used maximum water on the flush, it was moderately quiet.  But if you used a more sensible amount the "suck" phase would draw air after the water was exhausted which was loud.

The tank was 70 gall and could last me months depending on visitors.  Getting it pumped out was quick, easy, totally pong-free, and cheap, compared with many other boat costs!

I used ordinary toilet paper.

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Decision 039.  The Shower.  EXCELLENTish.

I was determined to have a comfortable shower.  For me that meant big enough to be able to dry myself in the shower compartment itself.  We all have our pecadillos.  I chose 100 x 76 cm.  I couldn't find any "pods" that would fit in the height available so I bought a stonecast showertray with an upstand and built the shower cubicle around it.  I used multiple sheets of ply and a final inner wall of plastic shower walling.  I didn't use the joining moulding available for the plastic.  I went to extreme lengths to ensure that when the silicon sealant cracked/failed as it often/always eventually does, it would still not leak, either vertically or by capillary action, upwards.  The total weight was considerable and with hindsight I should have reinforced the floor even more than I did, though it did not actually fail.

From experience I refused to have any form of shower curtain.  Cold, clammy things, they are horrible, even when they don't go mouldy.  That meant doors, and the only doors I could find were a very primitive bifold door from Midland Chandlers.  I bought two, one for getting in and out, and a second which acted as a cupboard door to all the waterworks on the wall in the space left between the vertical shower side and the angle of the cabin side.

The water supply came from the Jabsco pump previously described, via a manifold, then direct for the cold and via from a hot manifold for the hot.  There were problems with the water temperature which I shall describe under the "Morco" heading.

The water was removed by a Gulper (excellent) mounted on the wall and access to the shower drain and hose was by lifting the floorboard in the side passage, this bilge area having been kept clear of ballast for this purpose.  I fitted a cheap manual mixer tap, which was useless, and regulated temperature at the Morco.

Afterthoughts:  It took far too much work to build.  I would do more work to find a ready-built pod, they seem to be more available these days. But the sleeps-two size was excellent, and it worked well.  I put in a computer fan to exhaust damp air but it was too noisy and as I shower before sleeping, it was never used, and the bathroom was never damp, so I would omit that.  I would do more work to overcome the water temperature regulation issue.

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Great read. How about some pics to accompany the words?

Ok, but this may slow the words down.  My brain cell is already fully committed.

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5 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Decision 039.  The Shower.  EXCELLENTish.

I was determined to have a comfortable shower.  For me that meant big enough to be able to dry myself in the shower compartment itself.  We all have our pecadillos.  I chose 100 x 76 cm.  I couldn't find any "pods" that would fit in the height available so I bought a stonecast showertray with an upstand and built the shower cubicle around it.  I used multiple sheets of ply and a final inner wall of plastic shower walling.  I didn't use the joining moulding available for the plastic.  I went to extreme lengths to ensure that when the silicon sealant cracked/failed as it often/always eventually does, it would still not leak, either vertically or by capillary action, upwards.  The total weight was considerable and with hindsight I should have reinforced the floor even more than I did, though it did not actually fail.

From experience I refused to have any form of shower curtain.  Cold, clammy things, they are horrible, even when they don't go mouldy.  That meant doors, and the only doors I could find were a very primitive bifold door from Midland Chandlers.  I bought two, one for getting in and out, and a second which acted as a cupboard door to all the waterworks on the wall in the space left between the vertical shower side and the angle of the cabin side.

The water supply came from the Jabsco pump previously described, via a manifold, then direct for the cold and via from a hot manifold for the hot.  There were problems with the water temperature which I shall describe under the "Morco" heading.

The water was removed by a Gulper (excellent) mounted on the wall and access to the shower drain and hose was by lifting the floorboard in the side passage, this bilge area having been kept clear of ballast for this purpose.  I fitted a cheap manual mixer tap, which was useless, and regulated temperature at the Morco.

Afterthoughts:  It took far too much work to build.  I would do more work to find a ready-built pod, they seem to be more available these days. But the sleeps-two size was excellent, and it worked well.  I put in a computer fan to exhaust damp air but it was too noisy and as I shower before sleeping, it was never used, and the bathroom was never damp, so I would omit that.  I would do more work to overcome the water temperature regulation issue.

Ok, but this may slow the words down.  My brain cell is already fully committed.

Thanks. You could always stick them in at the end, after you have finished the words?

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Decision 040.  Dinette Layout.  VERY GOOD.

Dinettes are (can be) fantastic.  They can serve as dining areas, beds, and sitting places that you can see out of the windows and work at a table.  I was determined to have one.  I decided that it should offer the same mattress area as the fixed bed so all bedding was common.  This made it big, big enough to seat 3 each side, with the side passage the BSS minimum.  It was 6" off the floor to make it easier to see out of the window(s).  Initially the bow side bench moved back a few inches to allow the table to be lowered to form the bed base but when the storage space underneath was full of stuff it became too heavy to conveniently move, and later still had pipes running through it so it could not be moved.  The arrangement was adjusted so that the table dropped straight in and this meant the gap from bench to table was wider on one side than the other, which turned out to be quite useful as different tasks were easier with different spacing.  The table was originally hooked on the wall at one end with a folding leg at the other but this did not work well and was replaced with a pair of Desmo legs.  The cushions were bespoke made by ?? near  Derby (?) not cheap but excellent quality and fitted exactly to make a very comfortable mattress.  The dinette was almost in line with a 4ft window so viewing was good.  The benches provided storage space of course.

Revisiting:  I would buy my oak-veneered plywood from a different timberyard.  The veneer was good but the core of the 18mm board was like blotting paper for those who can remember such stuff.  I was always afraid that visitors leaning back would break the backs of the dinette seating.  I would put the pipework in a channel under the benches not through the benches so that the benches could be moved.  I would give access to the floor pedastal so that it could be used for storage.  i would stick with the large size, this was so useful.

Edit:  I put a lot of work into calculating the sizes so that I was comfortable sitting in it.  Many benches are too long in the seat for me so that I cannot lean back.  Ditto leg length.

 

Edited by system 4-50
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2 hours ago, David Mack said:

Which doesn't specify a minimum width for side passages, only for openings used as a means of escape, such as hatches, windows or ports.

I know of hire boats with fixed 5' lengthwise doubles which have a *very* narrow awkward walkway but presumably are legal. Boats I've been on with 4'6" doubles are OK to walk past but you wouldn't want this if you had to do it all the time for through access, for example if the bedroom was at the stern -- for a frequently used passageway like this, a 4' bed is normally used.

Edited by IanD
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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Which doesn't specify a minimum width for side passages, only for openings used as a means of escape, such as hatches, windows or ports.

Damn.  I should have made the side passages only 6" wide, as long as the actual exits satisfied the BSS minimum.

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9 hours ago, Puffling said:

Looks like plenty of work trimming back. How long did that take and what did you use?

Its a long time ago.  I think I took 2 days over it but I'm not sure how intensive that was.  I used mostly a bluntish 1" wood chisel, and a craft knife I think.

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The more spray foamed battening I see the more convinced that carefully using boards like Kingspan and aluminium tape I can do a better job. There always seems to be  thin patches  then lumps that you have to carve off. Seems a waste of material and effort to produce a second rate job to me.

 

We used to spray foam containers and they laid it on thick to end up with a fairly even 3" of foam. Some of that boat hull looks to have between nothing and 2" in places.

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