These new log burner rules.......

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

So why post stuff making it sound like you know what you or your mate are talking about -- which was PM2.5 pollution, remember -- when you don't? 🙂

I was responding to someone who asked do crems have filters and they do from an art6i linked it looked like they did filter out PM 2.5s

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

 

@M_JGtold me to say it

 

Pathetic.

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I was responding to someone who asked do crems have filters and they do from an art6i linked it looked like they did filter out PM 2.5s

 

Here's what I asked, and your non-answer.

 

19 hours ago, IanD said:

 

But have the regs for crems caught up with recent findings about how nasty PM2.5 particulates are? They're *much* harder to filter out than visible smoke...

He says they are big filter systems, 15 foot square box size percent unit, it's a messy job replacing the filters

6 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Bit like you talking about boats 

 

 

 

@M_JGtold me to say it

 

From your posts it seems I know more about *some* aspects of them -- not all! -- than you do 😉

 

But I don't claim to know everything, and I'm willing to change my mind if it turns out I'm wrong, and I try and avoid making ad hominem attacks -- again, unlike you, and certainly unlike M_JG.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, IanD said:

and I try and avoid making ad hominem attacks -- again, unlike you, and certainly unlike M_JG.

 

Did you actually believe what he said??

 

I think you should look back over your posts, particularly in the politics section where you frequently make such attacks.

 

So maybe you need to try a bit harder?

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by M_JG

[ditchcrawler]

Here is a report from Beijing  Emission characteristics of harmful air pollutants from cremators in Beijing, China - PMC (nih.gov)

 

The installation of a flue gas post-treatment system could effectively reduce gaseous pollutants and the emission levels of PM. After being equipped with a flue gas post-treatment system, the emission concentrations of PM₁₀, PM_2.5, CO, SO₂ and VOCs from the cremators are reduced by 97.6, 99.2, 19.6, 85.2 and 70.7%, respectively. Moreover, the emission factors of TSP, PM₁₀, PM_2.5, CO, SO₂ and VOCs are also reduced to 12.5, 9.3, 3.0, 164.1, 8.8 and 19.8 g/body. Although the emission concentration of VOCs from the cremators is not high, they are one of major sources of “odor” in the crematories and demand more attention. Benzene, a chemical that can seriously harm human health, constitutes the largest proportion (~50%) of the chemical components of VOCs in the flue gas from the cremators.

[ditchcrawler]

If you fancy a long read 1 (publishing.service.gov.uk) 

[IanD]

21 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you fancy a long read 1 (publishing.service.gov.uk) 

 

And being more than 10 years old -- long before the P2.5 problem reared its ugly head! -- there's only a (pretty high!) limit on total particulate matter, and nothing specific at all on PM2.5 which aren't even mentioned anywhere.

 

Certainly PM2.5 emissions *could* be massively reduced -- see the China link above -- but it seems that in the UK there's no legal requirement to do so; whether many (or any) UK crems have the flue gas treatment technology to do this fitted isn't clear, but if it's not compulsory I bet they don't because it costs a lot...

Edited February 21, 2023 by IanD

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, IanD said:

Here's what I asked, and your non-answer.

 

He says they are big filter systems, 15 foot square box size percent unit, it's a messy job replacing the filters

 

From your posts it seems I know more about *some* aspects of them -- not all! -- than you do 😉

 

But I don't claim to know everything, and I'm willing to change my mind if it turns out I'm wrong, and I try and avoid making ad hominem attacks -- again, unlike you, and certainly unlike M_JG.

Previous to that

[cuthound]

On 19/02/2023 at 20:43, MtB said:

 

I suppose we always just could bury them, dunno if anyone has ever thought of that.

 

 

 

Apparently it takes up too much space.

 

When we buried my mother-in-law in 1997 and father-in-law in 2003, the plots were leased for a 40 year period so that they can be reused.

 

All my other relies who have died  since have been cremated.

Edited February 22, 2023 by cuthound
Phat phingers

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

When be buried my mother-in-law in 1997 and father-in-law in 2003, the plots were leased for a 40 year period so that they can be reused.

 

The same applies for ashes

[magnetman]

I found an urn floating in the Thames with the ashes still in it. 

 

I thought the idea was to empty it ! 

[Tonka]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Apparently it takes up.too.much space.

 

When be buried my mother-in-law in 1997 and father-in-law in 2003, the plots were leased for a 40 year period so that they can be reused.

 

All my other relies who have died  since have been cremated.

If you bury bodies near a river the decompose quicker. That is why a lot of murderers victims were buried at Marlow and Bisham Abbey apparently

[Jon57]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

The same applies for ashes

You can even pay to have your ashes turned into a diamond. As I said to the wife you’ll only get a diamond over my dead body.👍

[Jim Riley]

After Grandmas funeral at Rochdale Crem about 20 years ago, I had cause to visit the toilet round the back of the building, walked by the chimney as there was a gust of wind, got a whiff of burning fatty bacon! Pm2.5 r us !

[cuthound]

Saw this article about bio-ethanol burning stoves.

 

I wonder if they give out much heat?

 

Seems they don't even need a flue, so could be ideal for boats if the fuel required becomes widely available.

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/wood-burning-stoves-log-burner-8222547.amp

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Saw this article about bio-ethanol burning stoves.

 

I wonder if they give out much heat?

 

Seems they don't even need a flue, so could be ideal for boats if the fuel required becomes widely available.

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/wood-burning-stoves-log-burner-8222547.amp

 

All I'd proffer is that I woudn't.

 

I have a bio-ethanol camping stove set up that just doesn't quite get water to boiling point - it only reaches 'simmer temperature' as the heat loss seems to be equivalent to the ethanol heat output.

This is the gel that is used in restaurants to keep your food warm when you have one of those warmer things on the table. (Called Chafer dishes and uses chafing gel)

Chafing Gel = 7.44 Wh / gram Propane LPG = 13.6Wh / gram Mixed Camping Gas = 14.2 Wh / gram Seasoned Dry Wood = 4.2 Wh / gram Methylated Spirit = 7.22 Wh/Gram Petrol / Diesel = 12.5Wh / gram Anthracite = 8.6 Wh / gram   Spec sheet (Pdf) on gel fuel

Chafer Fuel BTU.pdf

Edited March 8, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Jim Riley]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

Saw this article about bio-ethanol burning stoves.

 

I wonder if they give out much heat?

 

Seems they don't even need a flue, so could be ideal for boats if the fuel required becomes widely available.

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/wood-burning-stoves-log-burner-8222547.amp

Surely it must put out h2o, to condense in the boat, if there is no flue. Bit like catalytic gas heaters. Safe but damp.

[magnetman]

Moving from earths crust materials (coal products) to using land to grow crops to make fuels for heating has some question marks. 

 

 

Also the bio-ethanol stoves are not as wonderful as may be assumed. Easy to say they have no emissions but something is burning so there must be some output from this. Apparently no CO which helps.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140903091728.htm

". “Ornamental stoves with ethanol-based firing are a source for pollutants in indoor air that are hazardous to one’s health. In order to guarantee an air quality level that does not pose a risk to human health, we advise avoiding the use of these devices in the interior of apartments. The units should only be operated in large, very well-ventilated spaces,” states Wensing in summary."

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Moving from earths crust materials (coal products) to using land to grow crops to make fuels for heating has some question marks. 

 

 

Also the bio-ethanol stoves are not as wonderful as may be assumed. Easy to say they have no emissions but something is burning so there must be some output from this. Apparently no CO which helps.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140903091728.htm

 

Bio-ethanol has many of the same issues as any bio-fuel -- not just land use but the amount of fertiliser etc needed to grow the crops, then the CO2 impact of the energy and machinery needed to make the fuel. Take all this into account and they're nothing like as green as is often made out, never mind using up arable land space that in many cases could be used for growing food.

 

It's a similar issue to hydrogen -- it all sounds very green (and no local emissions) until you look at the big picture, including total efficiency/losses, where the power (crops) come from in the first place, and how they get turned into fuel.

[ditchcrawler]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Moving from earths crust materials (coal products) to using land to grow crops to make fuels for heating has some question marks. 

 

 

I go along with that, we have a Bio digester up the road and they take tractor loads of crops from miles around to feed it, all grown for that purpose using tractors ploughing, Fertiliser, weed killer and harvesting. all done with diesel .

[nairb123]

For what it's worth........... I have had a letter from the council saying I have been reported for smoke out of the flue at my house.  I have been using a multi fuel stove for almost 14 years (ish).  This has never happened before.    I think the council smells the chance of making money from a fine.  Its a £300 quid fine a time for where I am.  Towards the city centre its £1000 quid a pop....... each time.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, nairb123 said:

For what it's worth........... I have had a letter from the council saying I have been reported for smoke out of the flue at my house.  I have been using a multi fuel stove for almost 14 years (ish).  This has never happened before.    I think the council smells the chance of making money from a fine.  Its a £300 quid fine a time for where I am.  Towards the city centre its £1000 quid a pop....... each time.

 

Location please...

[nairb123]

In Nottingham, West Bridgford.  Outside the inner city council.  I will have been reported by a local I suspect.

[Guest]

Just now, nairb123 said:

In Nottingham, West Bridgford.  Outside the inner city council.  I will have been reported by a local I suspect.

 

Thanks.

 

Likely some busy body nimby who has nothing better to do. Visible smoke is not prohibited, it often happens when lighting your fire.

 

 

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, nairb123 said:

In Nottingham, West Bridgford.  Outside the inner city council.  I will have been reported by a local I suspect.

Perhaps it had just been lit or refuel? I thought they could smoke for 30 minutes after each event