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These new log burner rules.......


nairb123

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I reckon once the theme that you are killing other people with your fire really gets going it could become quite awkward to avoid the smoke Nazis. 

 

All that nonsense with the covids was a sign of things to come. 

 

People burning things will be viewed as inconsiderate pariahs ripe for tarring and feathering. You'll be hung drawn and quartered. Just for burning a bit of wood! 

 

This is the start of the collapse of civilisation that everyone is worried about and people will walk straight into it. 

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1 minute ago, nairb123 said:

And who will decide this and how.

 

Probably an employee of the local council.

 

A bit like they do when determining noise nuisance. Its quite subjective.

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40 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Can you not cut the tires into small enough pieces and get them in the fire? I know the wires are annoying but it can be done. 

 

 

I think some people manage it. Two things I look for on other boats when I am mooring, a bloody great frame generator on the deck and a crappy chimney up wind of me.

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2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I reckon once the theme that you are killing other people with your fire really gets going it could become quite awkward to avoid the smoke Nazis. 

 

All that nonsense with the covids was a sign of things to come. 

 

People burning things will be viewed as inconsiderate pariahs ripe for tarring and feathering. You'll be hung drawn and quartered. Just for burning a bit of wood! 

 

This is the start of the collapse of civilisation that everyone is worried about and people will walk straight into it. 

 

A bit like driving a diesel car then?

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

In theory - yes.

 

Boats were previously exempt from the 'smoke control' rules but this was amended a couple of years ago so that the new regulations specifically include boats.

 

 

Environment act 2021

73Smoke control areas: amendments of the Clean Air Act 1993

Schedule 12 makes provision—

(a)for imposing financial penalties for the emission of smoke in smoke control areas in England,

(b)about offences relating to the sale and acquisition of solid fuel in England,

(c)for applying smoke control orders to vessels in England, and

(d)for authorised fuels and exempted fireplaces to be listed in Wales.

 

 

 

The waters to which this section applies are—

(a)all waters not navigable by sea-going ships; and

(b)all waters navigable by sea-going ships which are within the seaward limits of the territorial waters of the United Kingdom and are contained within any port, harbour, river, estuary, haven, dock, canal or other place so long as a person or body of persons is empowered by or under any Act to make charges in respect of vessels entering it or using facilities in it.

 

 

Vessels were exempt;. now Smoke Control Orders may provide for vessels.  Whether or not they are included depends on the Order but it is not correct to say that boats are now  (necessarily) included

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3 minutes ago, nairb123 said:

Dont you mean Boat

 

Boats as well.

 

The reference to diesel cars was referenceing a different thread that perhaps you havent been part of.

 

 

Edited by M_JG
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28 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Vessels were exempt;. now Smoke Control Orders may provide for vessels.  Whether or not they are included depends on the Order but it is not correct to say that boats are now  (necessarily) included

This is a good one to elaborate on. 

 

Do you have more details on this? 

 

I think it is probably up to local councils to decide how to proceed so maybe they need to have a specific framework to deal with boats. 

 

It does seem interesting that the 1993 clean air act was amended to include vessels. It seems unlikely this was a random event. 

 

More explanation will definitely be welcome.

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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I just read thought the headlines of householders being fined and criminal record and the only regulation that was quoted was the CO emmissions from new stoves being reduced 

 

A tightening of emissions regulations has reduced the amount of smoke new stoves can emit per hour from 5g to 3g.

It applies to homes in "smoke control areas" which cover most of England's towns and cities. Anyone found to be breaking the new measures could be issued with an on-the-spot fine.

 

Log burner rule change in England could land users with £300 fines - BBC News

I m not sure how they could establish your emissions were 5g or3g unless climbing on your roof and testing. 

 

I think kindling to light a firecis okay in most local authority areas.

 

Burning approved wood on defra approved stoves seems to be allowed. Not sure about wet wood you source yourself, though it's not legal to sell that anymore. 

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32 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

All this refers to Englandshire.  Alan's link emphasises this (in bold).  What about Scotland and Wales?

Google the local council rules. Seems lots of Wales doesn't have regulations and in Scotland it's mostly conurbations around Glasgow and Edinburgh. 

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4 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

 

 

A tightening of emissions regulations has reduced the amount of smoke new stoves can emit per hour from 5g to 3g.

It applies to homes in "smoke control areas" which cover most of England's towns and cities. Anyone found to be breaking the new measures could be issued with an on-the-spot fine.

 

 How do you measure 3g of smoke per hour? I use Excel and it only smokes for about 30 minutes.

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The obvious solution is to charge a fee everytime you light your fire in smoke controlled area. Do not call it a fine, but a fee payable to the local council, much like the low emission zone and ultra low emission zones. Clearly a two tier system would be required to include running of diesel engines. 

 

Obviously some kind of infra red surveillance system would be required to monitor the situation and send out fines by automatic number plate recognition. 

 

Perhaps cameras on each bridge could work. 

 

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11 hours ago, nairb123 said:

So if I was to moor up in a "smoke control area" or have a mooring in such an area would the new rules apply to a boat burning coal/wood?.   I get a good load of scrap wood each year and some of it goes in the stove on the boat.  Maybe there will be a tap on the roof and a £300 fine issued.  Maybe the CRT could police this and take a cut.

 

I have been on the canal for 30(ish) years.  Times have changed.

Nairb

 

Times have changed regardless of whether you have been on a canal or elsewhere. That is to be expected.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The obvious solution is to charge a fee everytime you light your fire in smoke controlled area. Do not call it a fine, but a fee payable to the local council, much like the low emission zone and ultra low emission zones.

 

 

 

I thought "Drones"  could be used, especially for the canal system.  Maybe also useful for checking boat movements. 

But also could be used in urban areas to check for smoke. 

 

When it's all turned into a money making game, the councils/gov will become enthusiastic to see it carried out under the disguise of saving the planet.

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4 minutes ago, nairb123 said:

I thought "Drones"  could be used, especially for the canal system.  Maybe also useful for checking boat movements. 

But also could be used in urban areas to check for smoke. 

 

When it's all turned into a money making game, the councils/gov will become enthusiastic to see it carried out under the disguise of saving the planet.

That's probably what will happen. Boats will be forced to have large numbers painted on the roofs. Great for checking licenses. 

 

Parking under trees and bridges will become a fineable offence. 

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I burn wood, after cutting it into stove-size pieces, removing the bark and drying it. This is something I do to save on the cost of smokeless, but I also use smokeless, which smokes for a while, before it gets going. I'm going to continue to do this. until the market stops shafting everyone. That'll be never. 

 

 

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Something changed in 2022. All new oil boilers and stoves are now 2022+. 

I assume all new stoves fitted will have to be to this standard so can be fitted in a smoke exempt area.

We have the parasites who have bought boats and then go and live on them in London, burning god knows what when they are moored next to flats to thank for this

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21 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

That's probably what will happen. Boats will be forced to have large numbers painted on the roofs. Great for checking licenses. 

 

Parking under trees and bridges will become a fineable offence. 

I've got a large H on the top of the yacht. 

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13 minutes ago, Higgs said:

I burn wood, after cutting it into stove-size pieces, removing the bark and drying it. This is something I do to save on the cost of smokeless, but I also use smokeless, which smokes for a while, before it gets going. I'm going to continue to do this. until the market stops shafting everyone. That'll be never. 

 

 

I burn wood when I can find it because having a wood stove is the best way by far to heat small spaces. It's the right option. Some people seem to want to live in big houses or flats where a wood stove is not appropriate but for a small boat or shed it IS appropriate. Partly because of the ventilating and drying effect. I know this happens with less smoke coal but nothing beats a wood stove. Nothing. 

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Have you ever had a helicopter land on it? 

 

Not yet. 

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