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New build engine bay - fixings and brackets etc


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Morning all,

 

 

Our new shell is laying in the marina awaiting some motivation...   I'm due to get the internal cabin bilge painted once the weather warms a touch, but then there is the engine bay.

 

With no engine yet fitted, just the Aquadrive up to the thrust bearing, it is a blank bare steel canvas.  I want to epoxy it - having had good results with Jotunmastic 87 in the past.

 

But I am thinking about what additional work is required and the order of things - in particular, any extra welding that may be required to install fixing points, brackets etc - couple of questions I'd be grateful for any views:

 

1)  Calorifier - we are looking at large calorifier - 75lts minimum - horizontal to sit on the uxter plate.    How have others approached the installation?   

2)  Battery tray - on the opposite side to the calorifier - would welded fixing points be advisable? 

3)  With a hospital silencer - do they need a solid fixed support - a vertical perhaps? 

4)  Cable runs and water pipe runs - would welding in some form of supports that can be used to cable-tie / etc to 

 

 

Any pics and good ideas appreciated.

 


 Tim

 

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Thanks Pete -that is really helpful.  And looks good! 

 

Those thin steel rods for the cable/pipe runs I guess?  That's the sort of thing I was thinking - and that is going to need me to do some proper planning.

 

And then with the calorifier - did you just use a grab adhesive to fix those plywood pads down to the steel beneath?  Was it painted first? 

 

And I think I can see what you did on the right there - angle brackets welded to the hull which has allowed the vertically-hung ply panel - that's good. Makes it easy and flexible to fix to the ply, with plenty of area to play with.  That feels like a good way to go. 

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Plan, plan, plan.  It is cheap and mistakes on paper are easy to rectify.

 

Try one of the free modelling programs and lay out your engine bay in 3D.

 

You will need all of the things you suggest plus more.  Think about access to top up batteries, change belts, filters, oils etc.  Put your battery box where you can lift the batteries in/out without booking hernia surgery first.

Brackets for Morse cables may be needed, both on the engine and in yhe bay.  Do these before putting the engine in if you can.  Certainly do any off-engine control brackets before engine in.

 

Think about how you will get in or out.  Standing on the engine is sort of OK, but not that good for mounts, or the engine paint.

Trad controls need even more thinking about and as much pre-manufacture as possible.

 

Try and work out the right order to assemble everything.  It is frustrating to have to bend a 15 mm pipe round a 2 in steel exhaust, but even worse the other way round.😥

 

Comb your wiring looms carefully as you build them.  They are much easier to fit and look better when all the cables are parallel and lying together.  Try to position the ones that dont go to the end at the outsides of the bundle , where they can make a neat departure mid run.   Make sure any multi-pin plugs are handy, out of the way of wet, oil or being trodden on.  They will be trouble, sooner or later, because that is the way of the things.  All you can do is defer trouble  and make if easier to fix.

Don't forget some stowages spaces for spare belts, oils, grease, antifreeze,  spare alternators  et al.

Paint the bay a light colour.  It shows up any leaks early and stuff that you drop is a lot easier to find.

 

Get someone else to look at your plan.

 

Have fun.

 

N

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Good stuff thanks - a vertical won't fit in the space we have - nor can we easily have more than one, so a single, larger sized horizontal is the approach - one that can be removed if some disaster occurred without having to move the engine, and absolutely - so that the immersion element can still be removed/changed . 

 

I need to properly interrogate the engine control cabling etc.... 

 

I have a lot to plan and think about.... but at least just those practical approaches with regard brackets, wiring support rods etc is what I need to aim at 

 

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1 hour ago, BEngo said:

Comb your wiring looms carefully as you build them.  They are much easier to fit and look better when all the cables are parallel and lying together.  Try to position the ones that dont go to the end at the outsides of the bundle , where they can make a neat departure mid run. 

This I'm afraid is a lost art ☹️ disappeared about the same time as lacing cord was replaced by cable ties 😯

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11 minutes ago, Loddon said:

This I'm afraid is a lost art ☹️ disappeared about the same time as lacing cord was replaced by cable ties 😯

Done a bit of that in the past, can you even buy lacing cord now?

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4 hours ago, pearley said:

This is ours.

IMG_20201217_123345344.jpg

IMG_20210330_115708920.jpg

 

Looking at the restriction for access to the weed hatch, do keep in mind the space needed to kneel/stand to be able to get down there. Also a thought for what & how you bring out the debris..

 

I concur about the thoughts on battery maintenance. Battery isolators, I think outside the engine room is the best location.

Consider a vent plug on the skin cooling tank, easier to drill, tap & paint before everything is fitted. Also a larger plug will allow any silt/rust debris to be vacuumed out.

Legacy has a plate cut into the diesel tank, easily removable for any clean out job.

 

01 Looking aft to weed hatch a.jpg

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Also fix any sound deadening sheets before the engine goes in.

Hospital silencer, great idea but make sure the exhaust pipe from the engine has either a 90 degree dog leg or at least it runs at 45 degrees between engine manifold and exhaust box. When we had ours done they took away the exhaust pipe which ran at 90 degrees from the engine to exhaust box - that change made a huge difference in sound transmitted to the hull.

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1 hour ago, Loddon said:

This I'm afraid is a lost art ☹️ disappeared about the same time as lacing cord was replaced by cable ties 😯

 

Or worse still adhesive insulating tape. It makes the loom nearly as stiff as a board. If you what to bind it up, use non-adhesive looming tape. I would use Spirwrap though

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3 hours ago, TandC said:

a vertical won't fit in the space we have

It doesn't have to be in the engine bay - for example, mine is midships. Closer to where you want the water is a useful feature as less hot water is wasted running the tap 'til the hot gets there. Also, the heat loss from the tank can be made use of inside to boat rather than wasted in the engine bay.

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2 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

It doesn't have to be in the engine bay - for example, mine is midships. Closer to where you want the water is a useful feature as less hot water is wasted running the tap 'til the hot gets there. Also, the heat loss from the tank can be made use of inside to boat rather than wasted in the engine bay.

Quite agree and when I planned our widebeam layout the calorifier was in the airing cupboard. Unfortunately Aintree disagreed and COVID made it rather difficult to argue the point.

 

4 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

It used to be said that horizontal calorifiers were less efficient than vertical ones. Is this no longer the case?

I would say the horizontal one on our widebeam looses heat more quickly than the vertical one on our old narrowboat.

 

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I thought I had made mine hard to change out if necessary

 

Hope I never have too otherwise may need an angle grinder!

 

1 hour ago, DaveR said:

 

Looking at the restriction for access to the weed hatch, do keep in mind the space needed to kneel/stand to be able to get down there. Also a thought for what & how you bring out the debris..

 

I concur about the thoughts on battery maintenance. Battery isolators, I think outside the engine room is the best location.

Consider a vent plug on the skin cooling tank, easier to drill, tap & paint before everything is fitted. Also a larger plug will allow any silt/rust debris to be vacuumed out.

Legacy has a plate cut into the diesel tank, easily removable for any clean out job.

 

01 Looking aft to weed hatch a.jpg

Might be the camera but there is no restriction whatsoever in opening the weedhatch. Much easier access than our old narrowboat because I can lower myself in with a leg either side of the prop and be well placed to get my arms into the water.

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6 hours ago, TandC said:

And then with the calorifier - did you just use a grab adhesive to fix those plywood pads down to the steel beneath?  Was it painted first? 

 

Don't use a grab adhesive, use a modified polyurethane construction sealant/adhesive. There are lots of good ones around now. Stixall from Toolstation or Sticks like Sh*t from Screwfix are fine. They go off like rubber so unlike lots of grab adhesives they remain flexible and can cope with thermal expansion and contraction.

 

I've stuck 18mm plywood pads to vertical steel bulkheads and mounted pumps, etc, to the plywood to save drilling and tapping the steel. Yes I'd epoxy the steel first and then key both surfaces to be stuck with a bit of medium grit sandpaper avoiding going through the paint if possible. Then wipe both faces clean with a bit of white spirit before sticking them together. After 24 hours you'll need a hammer & chisel to get the plywood off the steel.

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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

Don't use a grab adhesive, use a modified polyurethane construction sealant/adhesive. There are lots of good ones around now. Stixall from Toolstation or Sticks like Sh*t from Screwfix are fine. They go off like rubber so unlike lots of grab adhesives they remain flexible and can cope with thermal expansion and contraction.

 

I've stuck 18mm plywood pads to vertical steel bulkheads and mounted pumps, etc, to the plywood to save drilling and tapping the steel. Yes I'd epoxy the steel first and then key both surfaces to be stuck with a bit of medium grit sandpaper avoiding going through the paint if possible. Then wipe both faces clean with a bit of white spirit before sticking them together. After 24 hours you'll need a hammer & chisel to get the plywood off the steel.

I put my side hatch door linings on with Gripfix and it was a hammer and chisel job to remove them 10 years later 

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Stick half a dozen temperature sensors into the caulliflower and an arduino with display so you know how much hot you've got (after the other half has had its shower).

Put some sort of eye in above the weedhatch so that you can fit some sort of lifting tackle.  They get heavier as the years pass.

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I put my side hatch door linings on with Gripfix and it was a hammer and chisel job to remove them 10 years later 

 

Yes I know one or two people who got away with using gripfill, etc, but then I also know someone who used pinkgrip and some of his battens fell off. Whether one gets away with using an inferior product or not, I have to question the wisdom of using some of these brittle grab adhesives when more suitable flexible products are available at the same sort of price.

Edited by blackrose
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Lots of helpful stuff in here.

 

I've got a lot of thinking to do.   I may even make up a simple ply box to the same measurements of the engine case (it's one of Beta's soundproof enclosures) to stick in and work out some of the practicalities.

 

Battery tray arrangements... any suggestions there?   

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Loddon said:

This I'm afraid is a lost art ☹️ disappeared about the same time as lacing cord was replaced by cable ties 😯

I can still remember having to spend a month as part of my apprenticeship at Devonport Royal Dockyard being made to wire and lace control panels. The instructor would have a total hissy fit if the cables weren't parallel or a cable coming out of the bundle was not on the outside of the bundle run. He had a special look of disgust if the lacing wasn't tight or in line or not exactly evenly spaced.

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Having been client side of a few big network installs it is amazing how many installers cannot  properly  dress the cabling in a cabinet and think that a multi-coloured explosion in a spaghetti factory is OK.

 

Mind you, it is also amazing the number of IT folks that cannot keep their own  cables tidy even when they were given an immaculate set up at the start.

 

N

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