Age of a boat as a factor when buying.

[LadyG]

8 hours ago, Naartjie said:

As a Newbie planning to buy a NB in the coming months. 

How much should the age of a boat influence my decision when choosing what to buy? 

Most people have a definate budget and an idea of size and even the style. If you intend to liveaboard or cruise in colder weather then heating systems become more important. Avoid taking on a project, it's a can of worms!

Edited January 23, 2023 by LadyG

[Naartjie - Duck Hatch]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

I would think that most NB engines are pretty robust, and anyone with OPs skillset would be able to make visual appraisal by inspection and running it, starting from cold.

Without a survey of hull presumably he can't really know about the steel condition, or even if the propshaft is worn or out of alignment. Just a general look at wiring and  paintwork can indicate the care and maintenance, it always puts me off if the waterline is rusty, and paintwork flaking.

That's one of my questions, gearbox propshaft & stern gland. 

What would be good indicators of propshaft wear/alignment & gearbox condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, Naartjie said:

That's one of my questions, gearbox propshaft & stern gland. 

What would be good indicators of propshaft wear/alignment & gearbox condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Get the weed hatch out ( if there is one ) and give the prop a good tugging up, down and sideways. There should be no play.

Alignment is difficult, if the shaft is central in the stern tube and there is no excessive water drips it may be OK.

Gearbox? Well, oil condition and leaks. does it engage smoothly forward and reverse with engine running?  Straight mechanical boxes do tend to snatch in. Make of box is important, ZF and Hurst mechanical boxes have a poor reputation, PRM boxes are generally good and easy to fix, Technodrive can be a problem.

Avoid yellow Vetus engines/boxes, spares prices are crazy.

[Naartjie - Duck Hatch]

Thanks this really is valuable info.

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Get the weed hatch out ( if there is one ) and give the prop a good tugging up, down and sideways. There should be no play.

Alignment is difficult, if the shaft is central in the stern tube and there is no excessive water drips it may be OK.

Gearbox? Well, oil condition and leaks. does it engage smoothly forward and reverse with engine running?  Straight mechanical boxes do tend to snatch in. Make of box is important, ZF and Hurst mechanical boxes have a poor reputation, PRM boxes are generally good and easy to fix, Technodrive can be a problem.

Avoid yellow Vetus engines/boxes, spares prices are crazy.

 

and anything Vetus for the same reason - spares pricing.

[magnetman]

21 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

and anything Vetus for the same reason - spares pricing.

 

So are we saying if the boat has a Vetus engine in it then don't buy it? 

 

That seems a little harsh. There must be some good Vetus engines. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

So are we saying if the boat has a Vetus engine in it then don't buy it? 

 

That seems a little harsh. There must be some good Vetus engines. 

 

 

 

Not at all, after all it is only a Mitsubishi engine, but with "special" high cost yellow paint on it. If you can afford Vetus spares, then it will be as reliable (more or less) as any other Mitsubishi engine. You buy engines once, but spares forever. However, I don't like the Vetus practice of mounting fuses and relays high up on the engine where they are subject to vibration failure.

 

I also get the impression that they use "razor blade/printer" marketing, where hefty discounts are given to the boat builders and the profit comes from spares and replacements. Not that I can prove it because it s just an impression.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[magnetman]

Could one perhaps use disapproval of Vetus hardware to get the price of a boat reduced ? 

 

Never had one myself but they seem quite common. 

[Tracy D'arth]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

So are we saying if the boat has a Vetus engine in it then don't buy it? 

 

That seems a little harsh. There must be some good Vetus engines. 

 

 

The engines are fine, Mitsubishi stock blocks. Its the OE bits that Vetus hang on them and the gearboxes that they seem to prefer that are daft prices.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

Could one perhaps use disapproval of Vetus hardware to get the price of a boat reduced ? 

 

Never had one myself but they seem quite common. 

 

I don't think anyone has disapproved of Vetus hardware, but two of us have questioned the cost of spares. That does not apply to their engines with Technodrive gearboxes because they are probably better avoided.

 

It is the way they sudden;y started appearing in new boats some years ago that suggest to me the marketing ploy I described above.

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Could one perhaps use disapproval of Vetus hardware to get the price of a boat reduced ? 

 

Never had one myself but they seem quite common. 

The marketing policy seems to be sell the unit at a very competitive price to push out the competitors, then take the profit charging insane prices for the spares afterwards. Friend of mine was quoted a three figure sum for a thruster button switch, I found him the same one on ebay for £9.  It just was not in a Vetus bag and not painted easy flake off yellow.

 

The Techno boxes are noisy and not long lasting in my experience. You can hear the whine when following one.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Tracy D'arth

[magnetman]

I think telling someone to "avoid yellow Vetus engines/boxes" counts as disapproval. 

 

Was this just a reference to paint colour?

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The engines are fine, Mitsubishi stock blocks. Its the OE bits that Vetus hang on them and the gearboxes that they seem to prefer that are daft prices.

 

Case in point of the hanging of bits on. On one range of two cylinders, they used what look like a stock marine thermostat housing that they used on other engines. the result was that it fouled the alternator so you could not slacken the belt right off when changing it. Just a little thing, but not to e expected on something that seems end user priced as premium.

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I think telling someone to "avoid yellow Vetus engines/boxes" counts as disapproval. 

 

Was this just a reference to paint colour?

Please don't be silly looking for an argument, you will not get one.

[LadyG]

8 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Could one perhaps use disapproval of Vetus hardware to get the price of a boat reduced ? 

 

Never had one myself but they seem quite common. 

Yes of course you can negotiate the price for any reason if you are so inclined, weighing up the risks, the checks and the balances. What is a deal breaker for one person is of little concern for another. 

[magnetman]

I'm not looking for an argument. 

 

It was interesting that two of the most knowledgeable people on this forum regarding diesel engines have effectively advised the OP to avoid Vetus engines. 

 

That is what it looks like.

 

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I think telling someone to "avoid yellow Vetus engines/boxes" counts as disapproval. 

 

Was this just a reference to paint colour?

 

If you read the recent posts you will see it has been explained, but for clarity, nothing to do with paint colour a such, but everything to do with spares pricing with aminor questions about the Vetus part of the engine design/mainisation.

[magnetman]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

If you read the recent posts you will see it has been explained, but for clarity, nothing to do with paint colour a such, but everything to do with spares pricing with aminor questions about the Vetus part of the engine design/mainisation.

 

Paint colour was a flippant comment. Sorry about that. 

 

It appears to me that you and Tracy D'Arth are both advising against purchasing a boat with a Vetus engine/gearbox installation. 

 

Is this correct ? 

 

 

[Jon57]

Just now, magnetman said:

 

Paint colour was a flippant comment. Sorry about that. 

 

It appears to me that you and Tracy D'Arth are both advising against purchasing a boat with a Vetus engine/gearbox installation. 

 

Is this correct ? 

 

 

Is it cause it’s yellow. 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm not looking for an argument. 

 

It was interesting that two of the most knowledgeable people on this forum regarding diesel engines have effectively advised the OP to avoid Vetus engines. 

 

That is what it looks like.

 

 

I have never met Tracy and, I think, live well over 100 miles apart so collusion to denigrate Vetus is unlikely, so that just leaves two independent people giving their views based on such experience as they have gained.

 

If the OP finds two boats that suit, but one has Vetus stuff aboard while the other has not, then the advice says that for long term cost savings buy the non-Vetus one. If there is only one suitable boat, but it has Vetus then buy it, but expect expense down the lie if anything goes wrong.

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Paint colour was a flippant comment. Sorry about that. 

 

It appears to me that you and Tracy D'Arth are both advising against purchasing a boat with a Vetus engine/gearbox installation. 

 

Is this correct ? 

 

 

 

Well, I would never buy Vetus if it could be avoided, but others seem to like the feeling of security a big name gives them.

5 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Is it cause it’s yellow. 

 

What is wrong with posters this morning, that question has been well answered.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I have never met Tracy and, I think, live well over 100 miles apart so collusion to denigrate Vetus is unlikely, so that just leaves two independent people giving their views based on such experience as they have gained.

 

 

I was not suggesting anything like that.

 

Equally I have no reason to defend them. Never owned one never want to but just generally interested in boat subjects. 

 

 

[rusty69]

The RNLI boats have historically used yellow caterpillar engines. 

 

Just saying 

[magnetman]

Cats are good but larger. 

 

It's companies who marinise small industrial diesel engines for use in canal boats who are under scrutiny. 

 

Interesting that Mastervolt never went into this business. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The RNLI boats have historically used yellow caterpillar engines. 

 

Just saying 

 

As has been explained, it is the brand that is in question and not the colour. However, for someone who is asking all sorts of questions about buying a NARROWBOAT it seems pointing out that yellow equipment is likely to be Vetus branded with the future cost implications. Not sure many, or even any, narrowboats use Caterpillar engines, so their colour is relevant.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

Not sure many, or even any, narrowboats use Caterpillar engines, so their colour is relevant

I suspect you are right. I did however stipulate RNLI. Dunno if the RNLI have any boats on the canal.