Squirrel 1410 on a 12ft widebeam

[BEngo]

Our Squirrel uses about 25 kg a week on this sort of weather, but we are very well insulated with 50mm sprayfoam absolutely all over.  Even the weedhatch sides got done!

 

If a coal cage made the Panther too low an output, I suspect that if you are not particularly  well insulated a Squirrel will need to be run hard (so lots of heat up chimney) and will use more fuel than you will want to buy.  The life of the Squirrel grates can also be short if run hard.

 

N

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by BEngo

[Old Son]

To put this in perspective, I am paying £400 for gas and electric in my house PER MONTH and I dare say there are others paying a lot more. Boats are fantastic but they are not as cheap to run as some people might suggest. Hopefully the weather will warm up soon and we can go back to normal. 

[magnetman]

A 12 foot widebeam would probably be quite cheap to heat but he has not mentioned the beam. 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

A 12 foot widebeam would probably be quite cheap to heat but he has not mentioned the beam. 

The clues in the title old chap. 

[magnetman]

I thought his boat was a 60ft widebeam.

[GUMPY]

41 minutes ago, Old Son said:

To put this in perspective, I am paying £400 for gas and electric in my house PER MONTH and I dare say there are others paying a lot more. Boats are fantastic but they are not as cheap to run as some people might suggest. Hopefully the weather will warm up soon and we can go back to normal. 

December gas and electric was £348 in the house here. I await January's figures due in the next couple of days.

Boat electric has been £40 and I'm not even there😱

[Richard10002]

20 hours ago, rusty69 said:

We easily use 50kg a week, probably closer to 60kg.

With a Boatman stove, I use 20kg of Excel for 3 days @ 24/7 useage, so a week would be about 47kg. That's a 45ft narrowboat with cruiser stern. The lounge gets toasty, whilst the bedroom remains slightly chilly.

[rusty69]

43 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

With a Boatman stove, I use 20kg of Excel for 3 days @ 24/7 useage, so a week would be about 47kg. That's a 45ft narrowboat with cruiser stern. The lounge gets toasty, whilst the bedroom remains slightly chilly.

Maybe it works out close to 1kg/foot/week then. 

[Peanut]

 Friend's 60 × 12 wide beam has a smaller Squirrel than fitted to blackrose boat.  It keeps the main cabin toasty warm, even too warm, needing side doors to be opened to cool it down.  The bathroom and bedroom are cut off and get no heat unless they are left open.  To heat them, you would need a back boiler and radiators.  It is easy to keep the fire in overnight shutdown to a tick over.  It could burn prodigious amounts of coal if you insist on a blazing fire, but probably uses two to three 20 kg bags a week when kept on 24 × 7.

They have had it for about ten years living aboard, and the centre grate now requires replacing.

[rusty69]

On 20/01/2023 at 18:00, BEngo said:

Our Squirrel uses about 25 kg a week on this sort of weather, but we are very well insulated with 50mm sprayfoam absolutely all over.  Even the weedhatch sides got done!

 

If a coal cage made the Panther too low an output, I suspect that if you are not particularly  well insulated a Squirrel will need to be run hard (so lots of heat up chimney) and will use more fuel than you will want to buy.  The life of the Squirrel grates can also be short if run hard.

 

N

 

I'm amazed at this. Do you load your fire once every 48 hours, and it keeps the boat at a reasonable temperature during this period? 

[Slim]

On 20/01/2023 at 15:31, Higgs said:

 

You could get through 2.5 bags, using the 1410, in very cold weather. 2 x 25Kg bags a week wouldn't be unusual. That's in a 60' trad, 

 

 

I can easily ģet through 2 x25kg bags of fuel a week on a 55 nb. Sometimes one can wish for the impossible. Do the best with what you've got.

[tree monkey]

On 20/01/2023 at 15:23, blackrose said:

 

No, the Panther wouldn't stay in for 48 hours.24 hours at the absolute maximum and I'd probably have to take the extra firebricks out to achieve that.

 

Yes I have a diesel heater and do use it alone when outside temperatures are above 10C. So with the webasto and a Squirrel I guess I'd be ok even when it's very cold? However, I only use my webasto for a few hours/day. I wouldn't want to rely on it.

 

 

Yes although it's a multifuel stove it does seem to perform much better with wood. Perhaps I'll start buying wood instead of coal.

Unless you have a cheap supply of wood oi would be cautious about relying on timber on a cost basis, it's not cheap, plus storage on a boat for the volume required is not easy.

 

I used to use 100% timber but I had access to free, if unprocessed, wood and space to store large volumes 

[blackrose]

8 hours ago, tree monkey said:

Unless you have a cheap supply of wood oi would be cautious about relying on timber on a cost basis, it's not cheap, plus storage on a boat for the volume required is not easy.

 

I used to use 100% timber but I had access to free, if unprocessed, wood and space to store large volumes 

 

I do have a relatively cheap supply of wood so I'm supplementing my coal use by burning wood during the day and just putting coal on at night. I go through a big £4 bag of wood during the day which is cheaper than the inflated coal I was burning. Storage isn't an issue, I just buy several big nets of wood at a time. I rent half a container at my mooring anyway.

On 20/01/2023 at 18:00, BEngo said:

If a coal cage made the Panther too low an output, I suspect that if you are not particularly  well insulated 

 

 

There's no need to suspect my boat's not that well insulated, I mentioned it in my original post.

 

On 21/01/2023 at 09:26, magnetman said:

I thought his boat was a 60ft widebeam.

 

57ft

[Jen-in-Wellies]

39 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I go through a big £4 bag of wood during the day which is cheaper than the inflated coal I was burning.

Inflated coal would also have storage volume problems. Unless you deflate it before storing. That of course means you have to pump it up again before putting it in the stove.

[rusty69]

34 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Inflated coal would also have storage volume problems. Unless you deflate it before storing. That of course means you have to pump it up again before putting it in the stove.

Keeping it Inflated has several benefits. The first being that it will float if dropped overboard. If filled with helium, it could be kept on long bits of string above the boat. This would have the added benefit of allowing the boat to sit higher in the water. A golden opportunity to paint the waterline. 

[David Mack]

33 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

If filled with helium, it could be kept on long bits of string above the boat.

Filling with hydrogen would increase the calorific value.

[BEngo]

12 hours ago, rusty69 said:

I'm amazed at this. Do you load your fire once every 48 hours, and it keeps the boat at a reasonable temperature during this period? 

Load up daily, usually running a fairly small but bright fire all day, switching to a low fire but more fuel in the grate overnight. Stove near the centre with rads in the bedroom and shower.

Front cabin is usually in the 22-23 C sort of bracket, (rising if the oven is on too.)  Bedroom a bit cooler. Cabin tends to cool off overnight.  16 C ish in the morning.

 

Keeping the doors closed as far as practicable is important  but the insulation is the key thing I think.

 

N

 

PS  We  are currently burning Dual, which seems to be an assortment of all varieties and sizes of ovoids.  Since Hills stopped doing bagged fuel I dont suppose we shall be getting any more after this lot.

Edited January 23, 2023 by BEngo
PD

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Load up daily, usually running a fairly small but bright fire all day, switching to a low fire but more fuel in the grate overnight. Stove near the centre with rads in the bedroom and shower.

Front cabin is usually in the 22-23 C sort of bracket, (rising if the oven is on too.)  Bedroom a bit cooler. Cabin tends to cool off overnight.  16 C ish in the morning.

 

Keeping the doors closed as far as practicable is important  but the insulation is the key thing I think.

 

N

And all on 25kg a week. Think we need to rip out our insulation and start over again. 

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

And all on 25kg a week. Think we need to rip out our insulation and start over again. 

 

I'm staggered too. When I had my Squirell I'd burn a 25kg bag every two days in freezing weather like this to keep warm. And I'm burning the same each day plus some wood here on the bank in my hovel. 

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

Yes some boats are extremely well insulated.  Other boats are just poorly ventilated.  Sometimes boaters lie about how much fuel they use.  Some boaters use very little but their boats are cold.  It's really hard to compare.

 

A couple of years ago another boater I know came and asked me how many bags of coal I use over the winter.  I said roughly 40 based on a mix of 20kg and 25kg bags.  She was surprised but commented on how lovely and warm my boat is when she comes over.  She and her husband would use about 15 bags all winter but she confided that the boat was always cold but her husband would insist thats just how boats are.  I imagine our conversation led to a 'heated' discussion between the two of them.

 

Personally, being comfortably warm is very high on my priority list, along with food and shelter it's one of the absolute basics.  So I'll burn as much coal as I need to stay comfortable.  When it's extremely cold I've been known to get through 3 bags in a week on my squirrel, on my 55' narrowboat.  I think the OP is seeing a problem which doesn't actually exist.

[blackrose]

8 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Yes some boats are extremely well insulated.  Other boats are just poorly ventilated.  Sometimes boaters lie about how much fuel they use.  Some boaters use very little but their boats are cold.  It's really hard to compare.

 

 I think the OP is seeing a problem which doesn't actually exist.

 

Yes you're probably right and I'd come to that conclusion earlier in the thread. Some people say they burn half a bag of coal a week but then it turns out they're burning loads of wood. I think there is a tendency amongst boaters to under-report their consumption along with their spending. I'm not sure why that is - probably something to do with a predilection for the virtues of an austere lifestyle. 

[magnetman]

Some people have very small boats. 

[doratheexplorer]

13 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes you're probably right and I'd come to that conclusion earlier in the thread. Some people say they burn half a bag of coal a week but then it turns out they're burning loads of wood. I think there is a tendency amongst boaters to under-report their consumption along with their spending. I'm not sure why that is - probably something to do with a predilection for the virtues of an austere lifestyle. 

I think so too.  It's a type of virtue signalling.

[magnetman]

I thought it was a type of denial. 

[tree monkey]

5 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I think so too.  It's a type of virtue signalling.

What if I have no virtue left to signal about?