57ft NB Dutch Barge

[Athy]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

A 'split second'.

Our forward escape method is via an opening hatch in the roof (as is typical on the vast majority of salty water boats (no front doors) - they have to be a certain size (as specified in the RCD / RCR and obviously applicable to NBs as well ! ) and ours is situated over one of the bunks in the forward cabin, so if you stand on the bed you are already out to your shoulders - foot on top-bunk and you are out 'as quick as a rat up a dreain pipe'.

 

When I was painting the rear deck we used the hatch as our main entry and exit, its no big problem - even for the more rotund of us.

That's reassuring, Alan, thank you.

[booke23]

18 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I would. Yesterday with my panels tilted I ran 3 cycles of my automatic washing machine and topped up the batteries. On clear winter days when the sun is low I get 3 x the wattage out of my panels when they're tilted compared to when they're flat. One of my neighbours has told me she wishes she could tilt her panels. She's got more sq.ft of panels than me but she's not getting as much out of them. This will all change in spring & summer of course, when the sun is higher and tilting won't make much difference, but on bright days in winter the difference is amazing.

 

Some would some wouldn't, it's horses for courses. Depends on your circumstances. 

 

For tilting to be an advantage you need a sunny day (not that common in winter), clear south horizon and the boat oriented in an east west direction (usually, some can tilt their panels all directions). Not that easy when you're cc'ing. You might get three times the wattage but 3 X not very much is still not very much. 

 

However if you are on a mooring in the winter that meets the above requirements it might be worth doing.

 

Depends how the OP is going to use his boat. 

[Jon57]

11 hours ago, magnetman said:

on my

 

11 hours ago, magnetman said:

I've walked on my panels a few times (325,355,365 

35 million times. You must be fit. 😁

[blackrose]

43 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Some would some wouldn't, it's horses for courses. Depends on your circumstances. 

 

For tilting to be an advantage you need a sunny day (not that common in winter), clear south horizon and the boat oriented in an east west direction (usually, some can tilt their panels all directions). Not that easy when you're cc'ing. You might get three times the wattage but 3 X not very much is still not very much. 

 

However if you are on a mooring in the winter that meets the above requirements it might be worth doing.

 

Depends how the OP is going to use his boat. 

 

There are plenty of sunny days in winter, this week is a good example. 3 x 150w with the panels flat on a sunny day is 450w tilted - significantly more output. And yes, you obviously need to tilt the panels towards the sun! 🤣

Edited January 19, 2023 by blackrose

[booke23]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

There are plenty of sunny days in winter, this week is a good example.

 

What about the three weeks before this week....when all that wet stuff fell from the sky! 

 

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

3 x 150w with the panels flat on a sunny day is 450w tilted 

 

3 x 150w panels isn't even 450w in mid June in the UK. 

 

6 minutes ago, blackrose said:

you obviously need to tilt the panels towards the sun! 🤣

 

Obviously. 

 

Don't take it personally when someone offers a counterpoint. I'm not attacking your decision.....if tilting your panels works for you that's great but it depends how individuals use their boat. It would not be worth it for me and it may or may not be worth it for the OP.

[magnetman]

Solar panels tend to work better in the cold. There is a temperature coefficient. It is not much but a very clear winter's day with full sun at 90 degrees to the surface of the module will result in a very good output. Probably more than a hot summer day.

Edited January 19, 2023 by magnetman

[IanD]

30 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Solar panels tend to work better in the cold. There is a temperature coefficient. It is not much but a very clear winter's day with full sun at 90 degrees to the surface of the module will result in a very good output. Probably more than a hot summer day.

 

Not according to all the sites that actually work this out, for example here...

 

https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html

 

Panel tempco is typically about -0.4%/C, so maybe 15% reduction at most -- even with this and optimally tilted panels (~60deg tilt in winter!) the energy output (kWh/day) is only 25% of that in summer.

 

For example, for 1kW of panels (south-facing, ignoring efficiency drop):

tilt=0 : 3.3kWh/day in Jun, 0.34kWh/day in Dec

tilt=30 : 3.3kWh/day in Jun, 0.58kWh/day in Dec

tilt=45 : 3.1kWh/day in Jun, 0.67kWh/day in Dec

tilt=60 : 2.8kWh/day in Jun, 0.71kWh/day in Dec

 

Peak output might be bigger in winter (or at least, not as small...) but the days are much shorter, it's kWh/day that matters not the peak output in W at noon, because it sets how much charge gets into the batteries.

Edited January 19, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

I should have said but obviously did mean peak output as the discussion immediately prior was about getting 450w out of 3x150w panels in winter.

 

Clearly day length is going knock out the kWh output but thats not what I was referring to.

 

 

Also things like air pollution will probably obscure the sun more the lower it is which is why i said clear winter day.

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I should have said but obviously did mean peak output as the discussion immediately prior was about getting 450w out of 3x150w panels in winter.

 

Clearly day length is going knock out the kWh output but thats not what I was referring to.

 

 

Also things like air pollution will probably obscure the sun more the lower it is which is why i said clear winter day.

 

People talk about peak output (because it's easy to think about) but it's the wrong thing to use for battery charging i.e. boats... 😉

 

And incidentally you're still wrong about peak output, the maximum solar irradiance at noon in winter on a clear day drops by more than the panel efficiency goes up because the sun is further away and lower in the sky so travels through more atmosphere -- suggest you go and check the numbers instead of guessing... 🙂

Edited January 19, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

If you actually read it I did write "probably more". 

 

This can't be "wrong" because of the way it is worded.

 

You would be correct to claim I was wrong if I had written "more" but I din't.

 

 

You will also note, no doubt, that my comparison was with a "hot summer day" and there was no mention of whether the sun was actually shining or not.

 

If you want to take it apart a bit more be my guest.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If you actually read it I did write "probably more". 

 

This can't be "wrong" because of the way it is worded.

 

You would be correct to claim I was wrong if I had written "more" but I din't.

 

 

You will also note, no doubt, that my comparison was with a "hot summer day" and there was no mention of whether the sun was actually shining or not.

 

If you want to take it apart a bit more be my guest.

Can't be arsed. You made a "probably" guesstimate which was wrong. If you don't like being corrected, get things right... 😉

Edited January 19, 2023 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, Owls Den said:

This is correct.

 

Hahaha although add adrenaline into your body, does do amazing things!😅

It didn't help the lady in Stone, please dont under estimate the danger

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

There are plenty of sunny days in winter, this week is a good example. 3 x 150w with the panels flat on a sunny day is 450w tilted - significantly more output. And yes, you obviously need to tilt the panels towards the sun! 🤣

If its like here I bet you are doing well today, cold and very bright.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

It didn't help the lady in Stone, please dont under estimate the danger

 

Fires on boats like this are rare but do happen very occasionally, sometimes with fatal consequences.

 

This is why the BSS rules (for commercial/hire boats only, not private?) require fire exits to avoid this problem, which can be normal doors, or side doors, or large opening windows, or large opening roof lights, and the minimum size/area is specified -- whether Houdini hatches (or windows) meet the rules depends on how big they are, presumably small ones don't. Not having such fire exits on a private boat is legally allowed but not advisable...

 

There was an argument on an earlier thread about whether side doors that might be impossible to open in a narrow lock are OK (this is noted in the regulations but they are allowable), but I doubt that there's ever been a boat fire under these circumstances so they're fine as a fire exit.

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

There was an argument on an earlier thread about whether side doors that might be impossible to open in a narrow lock are OK (this is noted in the regulations but they are allowable), but I doubt that there's ever been a boat fire under these circumstances so they're fine as a fire exit.

A sinking boat would probably be a bigger danger there.

 

I passed a boat fire last trip, the fire was at the bows so if anyone had been onboard the only escape would have been the stern, Thankfully there was no one on at the time., but the dogs died.

Edited January 19, 2023 by ditchcrawler

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

A sinking boat would probably be a bigger danger there.

 

Which was you said on the other thread IIRC, and why I said "as a fire exit"... 😉

[ditchcrawler]

29 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Which was you said on the other thread IIRC, and why I said "as a fire exit"... 😉

Most fires seem to happen on moored boats from reports I have seen.

[Silent Flight]

Took the boat out today handled great, engine spot on. It was super icy in places, made it very interesting though ! 
 

Leading on from some helpful points from the forum I went over the boat with a more critical eye.
 

So regarding the safety there is a side hatch in the that is not on the plan(See pic) I spotted it straight away this time as was more conscious of this factor now. Pointed out to current owners that it wasn’t on the plan and they dismissed that. The plan from the brochure was produced later and evidently they agreed it was indeed missed out. But never mind it’s great news for me regardless of the mistake. 

Wheelhouse is still a wheelhouse. The doors do swing back 90 degrees and clip on. No sorry, no tomatoes yet it’s not the right season.

Will reply to some peoples thoughts when I can.
 

Pretty busy as I still loved the boat after today, and can now say I’m the proud owner of her!

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Owls Den

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Owls Den said:

Took the boat out today handled great, engine spot on. It was super icy in places, made it very interesting though ! 
 

Leading on from some helpful points from the forum I went over the boat with a more critical eye.
 

So regarding the safety there is a side hatch in the that is not on the plan(See pic) I spotted it straight away this time as was more conscious of this factor now. Pointed out to current owners that it wasn’t on the plan and they dismissed that. The plan from the brochure was produced later and evidently they agreed it was indeed missed out. But never mind it’s great news for me regardless of the mistake. 

Wheelhouse is still a wheelhouse. The doors do swing back 90 degrees and clip on. No sorry, no tomatoes yet it’s not the right season.

Will reply to some peoples thoughts when I can.
 

Pretty busy as I still loved the boat after today, and can now say I’m the proud owner of her!

 

 

 

Good to get an update.

 

Enjoy your new boat.

[magnetman]

 

Side door is nice to see. 

 

I also like the handrails. You can actually hold onto them which is handy, unlike some. 

 

 

Hopefully they put the boat horizontal before you take it away. 

[Alan de Enfield]

I note that you had placed a deposit, and now you 'own it'.

 

Have you had a survey done on the boat ?

[matty40s]

Side door missing from ABNB brochure..wouldnt have happened in the old days eh, Justin?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Side door missing from ABNB brochure..wouldnt have happened in the old days eh, Justin?

 

Seems like a very significant ommission for sure.

[Guest]

For anybody that knows anything about narrowboats it would stop them even going to see it.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by M_JG

[Silent Flight]

On 19/01/2023 at 09:17, roland elsdon said:

One of my first thoughts on viewing a boat is how do i get out of bed area in a fire.

Sounds morbid I know but once you have seen what can happen its a real concern, I hd to get a person out of aboat who had put a wardrobe  in front of the only doors in the front cabin. The fire was under and round the rear and only exit doors. He was a mess.

Cabin door locks need to be internal and lockable from inside only. ( only one external lock on our boat , if you can get in all exits (5) are open).

 

Its worth thought.

 

Thanks for sharing this, must of been horrific. Did take the points seriously and looked into it. Fire is no joke!

[Silent Flight]

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I note that you had placed a deposit, and now you 'own it'.

 

Have you had a survey done on the boat ?

Indeed! I have a copy of a recent boat survey with copies of paperwork for the work rectified, electrical survey, hull survey blacked in 2020