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Anyone here gone Ventile?


Puffling

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I'm looking at splurging a bit on a decent waterproof jacket. The weather in the past couple of months has been a testbed for most waterproofs, as I'm sure many will agree.

 

This jacket attracted my attention after doing some research. It's made of a traditional cotton fabric called Ventile. Two layers of that fabric, so perhaps a little too heavy for single-handed climbing lock ladders and shinning onto loft bridges.

 

I'd be interested if anyone had used a Ventile jacket on a narrowboat. The key advantages of this material for me are durability and breathability, both claimed to be way ahead of synthetic membrane-based fabrics (pores or hydrophilic coatings). It may be the last waterproof jacket I ever buy, or I'd like it to be so.

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£395 is too expensive to be clambering up greasy slimy lock walls.

Try the local charity shops, I got a North Face jacket for £10, it's totally waterproof and easy to move around in, I've got some shower proof trousers which will do for a few locks .I have my full Ocean. Sailing outfit for those few days when I might be out in full storm conditions, generally I just change after a few hours when I stop for coffee and soup.

 

 

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I haven't tried it but know people who really rate it. A popular application was the Greenspot cycling jacket. Unfortunately it is another great British invention like Pertex that is now owned and manufactured abroad - in the case of Ventile, Switzerland IIRC. Another garment maker targetting a similar market is Hilltrek in Scotland. They have a range of products made from Ventile (similar prices but also colours other than khaki). Typically used by ghillies and forestry folk who have to endure that Scotch mist.

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1 hour ago, Psychalist said:

I haven't tried it but know people who really rate it. A popular application was the Greenspot cycling jacket. Unfortunately it is another great British invention like Pertex that is now owned and manufactured abroad - in the case of Ventile, Switzerland IIRC. Another garment maker targetting a similar market is Hilltrek in Scotland. They have a range of products made from Ventile (similar prices but also colours other than khaki). Typically used by ghillies and forestry folk who have to endure that Scotch mist.

Isn't that the case with so many ideas which did better abroad?

I'd already checked Hilltrek, prices about similar to Country Innovation, though some customer comments about Hilltrek's slightly awkward fit and design put me off this company.

 

I have no issues wearing a khaki garment, in fact it seems rather close in shade to the "lock jizz" (term coined by the Narrowboat Pirate) you might get on clothes while working the locks and climbing ladders as a solo boater. In my experience, once dried the"jizz" brushes off fairly easily.

 

I've owned a variety of waterproof jackets over my life, from the cheapest polyurethane coated nylons, through rugged but clammy neoprene coating to "breathable" Sympatex and Goretex items. All the breathable fabrics proved to be insufficiently breathable in real life conditions (steady rain in cold conditions, with moderate exercise). The impermeable coatings are good for short showers, but you end up as wet when wearing them for hours as just having a fleece on. The advantages of Ventile would seem to be having no pores to clog and being relatively easy to clean, as well as permeability to water vapour in a class of its own.

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Ventile was invented during WW2, and is therefore over 80 years old.   It has been used on many major expeditions, including Everest and Polar crossings.  I've owned various Ventile garments over the years, from my teens and including British Antarctic Survey issue.  TBH, I didn't even know it still existed, so would also be interested to hear of any recent first-hand experiences.

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7 hours ago, Puffling said:

I'm looking at splurging a bit on a decent waterproof jacket. The weather in the past couple of months has been a testbed for most waterproofs, as I'm sure many will agree.

 

This jacket attracted my attention after doing some research. It's made of a traditional cotton fabric called Ventile. Two layers of that fabric, so perhaps a little too heavy for single-handed climbing lock ladders and shinning onto loft bridges.

 

I'd be interested if anyone had used a Ventile jacket on a narrowboat. The key advantages of this material for me are durability and breathability, both claimed to be way ahead of synthetic membrane-based fabrics (pores or hydrophilic coatings). It may be the last waterproof jacket I ever buy, or I'd like it to be so.

Not ventile but check out keela for reasonably priced robust products used by Scottish mountain rescue teams. 

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I owned a Ventile anorak in the seventies. You could get either double Ventile or single Ventile with a cotton poplin lining.  It was completely waterproof in prolonged rain, the outer would be wet, but the inner remained dry.  A breathable fabric, which would withstand abrasion, but became heavy when wet.  A very fine weave like a fine canvas, so that when the fibres swell up it sheds rain, rather like a wooden boat taking up.  You could buy a mountain tent made from it.

I have been thinking of getting another as I liked it so much, but a lot to shell out, I would need to try it on first.  There seem to be more products available recently.  I believe there is only one mill still weaving it in the UK.

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16 hours ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

[...] I've owned various Ventile garments over the years, from my teens and including British Antarctic Survey issue. [...]

 

13 hours ago, Peanut said:

I owned a Ventile anorak in the seventies. You could get either double Ventile or single Ventile with a cotton poplin lining.  It was completely waterproof in prolonged rain, the outer would be wet, but the inner remained dry.  A breathable fabric, which would withstand abrasion, but became heavy when wet. [...]

From your experience with Ventile, can you remember whether it become inflexible when wet, or simply heavy?

What I'm interested in is how suitable it would be for working single handed on locks when the fabric is saturated. If it became incredibly stiff, that would be a big drawback for safety when climbing up and down lock ladders and edging along gunwales.

 

Obviously the fabric needs longer to dry out after a good wetting, unlike nylon material which will often shake fairly dry before replacing in a rucsac.

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1 hour ago, Puffling said:

 

From your experience with Ventile, can you remember whether it become inflexible when wet, or simply heavy?

What I'm interested in is how suitable it would be for working single handed on locks when the fabric is saturated. If it became incredibly stiff, that would be a big drawback for safety when climbing up and down lock ladders and edging along gunwales.

 

Obviously the fabric needs longer to dry out after a good wetting, unlike nylon material which will often shake fairly dry before replacing in a rucsac.

I don't remember it getting inflexible when wet.  I once fell through some sea ice whilst wearing Ventile outer layers, and once I'd extricated myself made my way over a glacier.  I don't remember the material stiffening until it began to freeze!   It does get heavy, though.   The flexibility improves with age and wear - it is certainly tougher than most modern waterproof fabrics.

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5 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

I don't remember it getting inflexible when wet.  I once fell through some sea ice whilst wearing Ventile outer layers, and once I'd extricated myself made my way over a glacier.  I don't remember the material stiffening until it began to freeze!   It does get heavy, though.   The flexibility improves with age and wear - it is certainly tougher than most modern waterproof fabrics.

Tougher then Barbour?

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I've still got a ventile anorak, bought from an army surplus store 50 years ago. But it is now worn out, and I have been searching unsuccessfully for a replacement in second hand shops for about 5 years. I also want it for rough outdoor work, so have been a bit reluctant to shell out £400 for something that will quickly get mucky.

 

It doesn't get stiff when wet, but it does get heavy: as the outer layer absorbs water.

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On 10/01/2023 at 16:22, Puffling said:

I'm looking at splurging a bit on a decent waterproof jacket. The weather in the past couple of months has been a testbed for most waterproofs, as I'm sure many will agree.

 

This jacket attracted my attention after doing some research. It's made of a traditional cotton fabric called Ventile. Two layers of that fabric, so perhaps a little too heavy for single-handed climbing lock ladders and shinning onto loft bridges.

 

I'd be interested if anyone had used a Ventile jacket on a narrowboat. The key advantages of this material for me are durability and breathability, both claimed to be way ahead of synthetic membrane-based fabrics (pores or hydrophilic coatings). It may be the last waterproof jacket I ever buy, or I'd like it to be so.


looks the business,

expensive but would last

and over the years you’ll get your money worth


Trouble is I think I’d find something like that too hot to wear when working locks. 
Great for standing on the back in the cold and rain though, I’d guess. 
 

It’s got an inner zip to attach a fleece, and a snazzy hood too. 👍

 

I’ve a sheepskin coat for the cold and swop to a quilted hi viz when it rains. 
Both are crap for climbing around locks. 
But they do have pockets for the hip flasks 😃

 

The one you got your eyes on has two very big hip flask pockets so mostly likely good value 

 

Edited by Goliath
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  • 4 weeks later...

 

Goretex is waste of money for standing on the back of a boat in the rain- it was designed as we know for outdoor activities where you perspire. 

Also, I'm not personally convinced that the seams on a £150 goretex jacket will be made well enough to be 100% waterproof, I've had a few and none were totally waterproof over several hours hiking in the rain. I suspect you'd need to spend twice that much to get the kind of quality made seams that would keep you dry.

 

For those days where you have to cruise all afternoon in the rain, ventile sounds great in principle, since it doesnt matter if it gets a bit heavier when the outer layer is soaked.

My only concern would be ruining such an expensive coat by doing the dirty jobs in it: climbing those slimy, muddy lock ladders with a filthy muddy rope in one hand (but draping against the jacket), popping out to haul a sack of coal from the roof, manhandling your bike onto the stern when the tyres are full of wet mud- etc etc.  

I think if I got one of those ventile jackets- which I'd very much like to do- I would want to take if off at locks, and put on a cheap anorak. It would feel more like a garment to take some care about, and perhaps to walk down to the local pub on a rainy evening and pretend that I'm civilised. 

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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12 hours ago, Tony1 said:

Goretex is waste of money for standing on the back of a boat in the rain- it was designed as we know for outdoor activities where you perspire. 

Also, I'm not personally convinced that the seams on a £150 goretex jacket will be made well enough to be 100% waterproof, I've had a few and none were totally waterproof over several hours hiking in the rain. I suspect you'd need to spend twice that much to get the kind of quality made seams that would keep you dry.

[...]

My experience is similar. I bought my first Goretex jacket (a Phoenix, IIRC) in the 80s and went for a walk in the rainy Yorkshire Dales, arriving home with the inside quite wet, and plain leakage through the seams. Returned it to the shop in Otley where I'd bought it, and was happy to receive a new one in exchange. Another rainy walk later proved the replacement to be no better. They refunded my money at the shop and I went for a Craghoppers "cagjac" - plain polyurethane coated nylon but about £80 cheaper. It became damp inside after exercise but was taped competently over the seams. I became rather attached to that jacket, until the zip tape rotted through after around eight years of solid use, and I had to ditch it. I made a number of jackets after that myself using a domestic sewing machine, a homebrew tape sealer and materials bought from Pennine Outdoor in Holmfirth. They were always equal to or better than the best commercial jackets I've tried. Nowadays, though, my eyes are too bad to be threading sewing machine needles and stitching French seams.

 

I also accept your point (and that made by @Goliath ) that a Ventile will be too warm for lock work, and probably too smart. So, on the principle of the magnesium anode attached to a steel hull, I have bought a cheaper "sacrificial jacket" and intend to get the single Ventile one later for off-lock work and town use. By happy chance I saw a Craghoppers jacket reduced to half price last week. It's in a mossy lock-slime green colour, so should be happy getting smeared and smudged. A nice breathable fabric, lined but not Goretex and not too heavy.

12 hours ago, Tony1 said:

[...] manhandling your bike onto the stern when the tyres are full of wet mud- etc etc.  

[...]

I keep two bikes aboard my boat, inside the cabin space, and never have a mud issue with them. After riding along the muddy towpath, the tip is to dip them in the canal, rotating one wheel at a time while holding a stiff brush to the tyre. The mud just oozes off! You might find three hands or a bit of string an advantage at first, but I manage it solo. Then stand the bike on its own (propped against the boat or an a stand if it has one) and work methodically along the frame, brushing off mud clumps with that same stiff brush dipped periodically into the canal. You can then go inside then and unload your shopping or change out of outdoor wear into something comfortable. When you come back, the bike will have dripped off and you can bring it on board 🚲

Edited by Puffling
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29 minutes ago, Puffling said:

the tip is to dip them in the canal, rotating one wheel at a time while holding a stiff brush to the tyre. The mud just oozes off! You might find three hands or a bit of string an advantage at first, but I manage it solo. Then stand the bike on its own (propped against the boat or an a stand if it has one) and work methodically along the frame, brushing off mud clumps with that same stiff brush dipped periodically into the canal. You can then go inside then and unload your shopping or change out of outdoor wear into something comfortable. When you come back, the bike will have dripped off and you can bring it on board 🚲

 

The bike I ride in winter is an ebike with mountain bike style tyres, and it weighs I think 25kg.

The idea of suspending that sort of weight it into the water with one hand, and brushing off mud with the other, would probably work on the front wheel, if I could suspend the weight over the side of the boat with one hand- but the rear wheel has hub motor that I dont want to risk getting dipped in water.   

Using canal water to rinse the wheels and the underside of the frame is a great idea though. I could rinse the mud  off on the bank just before I lift it aboard.

My issue is that I do want to leave an ebike loose on the towpath whilst I go inside to unpack shopping.  So the cleaning off routine would have to be done before going inside, and if its raining and freezing cold, realistically I'm not going to bother washing it- I just want to get inside. 

 

 

Edited by Tony1
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3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

The bike I ride in winter is an ebike with mountain bike style tyres, and it weighs I think 25kg.

The idea of suspending that sort of weight it into the water with one hand, and brushing off mud with the other, would probably work on the front wheel, if I could suspend the weight over the side of the boat with one hand- but the rear wheel has hub motor that I dont want to risk getting dipped in water.   

Using canal water to rinse the wheels and the underside of the frame is a great idea though. I could rinse the mud  off on the bank just before I lift it aboard.

My issue is that I do want to leave an ebike loose on the towpath whilst I go inside to unpack shopping.  So the cleaning off routine would have to be done before going inside, and if its raining and freezing cold, realistically I'm not going to bother washing it- I just want to get inside. 

 

 

Ah, the he(e)ave-bike dilemma! That certainly is a bit more weight than either my city bike or the all-terrain one. You pay for the advantage of having motor assistance, as you have realised. I wouldn't be able to lift a 25kg ebike down my steps into the cabin on a regular basis.
Maybe some way of lifting the back wheel clear of the ground so it can be rotated and cleaned on the bank without doing the dipping action? I sometimes have a bowl filled with canal water to save my back when stooping. Why not just sling a chunky chain through the wheels while you go inside and the bike drips off? Unless you are near a road, a would-be thief would surely never carry the bike along the towpath in order to pilfer it?

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On 10/01/2023 at 20:59, M_JG said:

Avoid Berghaus.

 

Overated, probably made in China rubbish.

 

Would never have another.

When we first moved onboard we bought two Berghaus waterproofs. One each of course.

 

Mine is still waterproof after 8+ years where as ‘hers’ isn’t.

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2 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

When we first moved onboard we bought two Berghaus waterproofs. One each of course.

 

Mine is still waterproof after 8+ years where as ‘hers’ isn’t.

 

I've re proofed mine a couple of times but the problem I have with mine is the zips. They keep opening from the 'wrong' end. Started doing it after only a couple of months.

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52 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

I've re proofed mine a couple of times but the problem I have with mine is the zips. They keep opening from the 'wrong' end. Started doing it after only a couple of months.

It used to be that insisting on Japanese YKK zips got you reliability for the life of the garment. I've noticed a deterioration in the quality of so-called YKK zips in recent years, though.

Could it be a case of the market flooded with counterfeit zips?

Edited by Puffling
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