Which liveaboard is best?

[VincePam]

2 hours ago, pearley said:

If you want to talk things through and are happy to come to Hartford send me a PM.

I surely will. Probably soon and over a beer if you allow me

[GUMPY]

I wouldn't go near a fibreglass boat as an inland live aboard.

Personally for that area I would be considering something like this

https://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/barges-luxe-motor-for-sale/636776

Yes I know its expensive but its far more likely to keep the family on board than a plastic fantastic.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

Nene and Great Ouse allow direct discharge into the waterway. This would help. 

 

I know (as does the River Trent), but if the intention is to occasionally 'escape' and get onto C&RT waters then the "Sh!t will hit the fan".

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I know (as does the River Trent), but if the intention is to occasionally 'escape' and get onto C&RT waters then the "Sh!t will hit the fan".

Not easy with a fat boat on the Cam

[David Mack]

14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I wouldn't go near a fibreglass boat as an inland live aboard.

Personally for that area I would be considering something like this

https://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/barges-luxe-motor-for-sale/636776

Yes I know its expensive but its far more likely to keep the family on board than a plastic fantastic.

But at nearly 2 1/2 times the OP's stated budget. At that price point there are a lot more options.

[magnetman]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I know (as does the River Trent), but if the intention is to occasionally 'escape' and get onto C&RT waters then the "Sh!t will hit the fan".

Yes but you can't get into CRT waters with a wide craft from that area unless you go around the coast. 

[Tony1]

28 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I wouldn't go near a fibreglass boat as an inland live aboard.

Personally for that area I would be considering something like this

https://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/barges-luxe-motor-for-sale/636776

Yes I know its expensive but its far more likely to keep the family on board than a plastic fantastic.

 

In fairness, you and your OH are both perfectly happy to spend weeks at a time on narrowboats- but as I said, the number of women who are truly comfortable and happy on a narrowboat is not that large, and it is that factor that makes me ponder a wider beam boat (as well as a personal interest in them, so I'm being honest about that).

 

If a widebeam GRP has double glazing and full insulation, plus a SF stove and decent size water tanks etc, what would be your objections to that scenario? 

If they are purely based on aesthetics and the plastic looks, that is of course valid, but a plasticky appearance may not be of the slightest importance to the OP's wife. 

She may prioritise space over the outer appearance of the craft. Roses and castles are utterly irrelevant to many women- I bet they would prefer a spacious lounge that fits two sofas facing each other with a coffee table or a large rug in between for the dog, with large windows with lots of natural light. 

 

But the point really is that we dont know her preferences on these issues either way..

So my advice to the OP would be to take his wife and younger child down to a few brokers and step aboard a few of the likely craft- including narrowboats of course. 

If feasible, hire a narrowboat for a few days and see if all three of you are ok with the space and the various compromises. 

If you can live with the space constraints narrowboats are definitely the best solution, but not everyone can live happily with those constraints. 

My ex loved the idea of a narrowboat when we initially talked about it and looked at some pics and videos of them, but after a single holiday on a narrowboat, she went off the whole idea, permanently. 

This is predominantly a narrowboat cruising forum, but I think it would be wrong to blithely assume that his wife will be fine with living aboard one, when actually the majority of wives are not ok with that. 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Tony1

[enigmatic]

On the size issue, a widebeam or cruiser gets you all the way to Northampton in one direction and Bedford in the other, which is quite a lot of fun summer cruising. At least it does if no fixed point on your boat is more than about 6'5 above water level (in which case you won't get through Upwell on the Middle Level or Oundle after that)

 

For related reasons, if you buy a widebeam elsewhere in the country it'll need you to pay someone to put it onto the back of the lorry to move it, but that might be better than some of the options on Anglian waterways (many of which are cruisers designed very much for short breaks in the middle of summer)

 

 

A 60-70ft narrowboat gets you everywhere (apart from Wicken Fen and a couple of canals wayyy up north) and can have a separate-ish bedroom for your son but it still might feel a very small place. If he's expecting to move out in a couple of years after finishing college I'd still be tempted to wait until then...

 

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Yes but you can't get into CRT waters with a wide craft from that area unless you go around the coast. 

 

As I said many post ago- and even attached a map showing why, and how to 'get out'.

[Tony1]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

As I said many post ago- and even attached a map showing why, and how to 'get out'.

 

I think Mr M's point here is that the example boats I linked are sited in Chertsey, so a large lorry would be needed to get them to Cambridge. But those were just random examples, there will be others (although less numerous), that can be cruised to the OPs home area.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Tony1

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

I wouldn't go near a fibreglass boat as an inland live aboard.

Personally for that area I would be considering something like this

https://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/barges-luxe-motor-for-sale/636776

Yes I know its expensive but its far more likely to keep the family on board than a plastic fantastic.

 

Wow what a FANTASTIC boat. I'm almost tempted to do a bit of overtime and buy it!

 

All I'd need next would be a field next to the oxford canal and an old JCB....

 

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Wow what a FANTASTIC boat. I'm almost tempted to do a bit of overtime and buy it!

 

All I'd need next would be a field next to the oxford canal and an old JCB....

 

 

 

 

Or you could just do what some landlords do and overinflate your rents and then as a plumber jack up your prices.

 

Jobs a guddun..

[ditchcrawler]

Lots of widebeams under 5 years old for sale. Their owners soon fell out of love with them

[MtB]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Lots of widebeams under 5 years old for sale. Their owners soon fell out of love with them

 

 

Yes it always strikes me how with most couples on boats, you can see how one is fully committed to it but you can see in the eyes of their partner how they are only along 'for the ride'. Passively there to keep the other partner happy, rather than because they'd have made the same choice independently had they not been with that person. 

 

Its not always this way but I have to say, when a couple on a boat seem equally contented with their lifestyle decision they are most often on a relatively new and vast steel widebeam. 

[magnetman]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Lots of widebeams under 5 years old for sale. Their owners soon fell out of love with them

 

Indeed. The old "sailaway" scam. Sell a dream. 

 

I have never been entirely sure why this worked because the boats don't come with sails and inland waterways have lots of bridges. 

 

I suppose "motoraway" would not bring up wonderful visions of a life free of strife and beautiful dreams of sunny paradise type of areas. 

 

Many a dream broken here I think.

 

I still think it is a bit naive of people to think you can sail canal boats. Maybe they should have done more research. 

[VincePam]

12 hours ago, Loddon said:

I wouldn't go near a fibreglass boat as an inland live aboard.

Personally for that area I would be considering something like this

https://barges.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/barges-luxe-motor-for-sale/636776

Yes I know its expensive but its far more likely to keep the family on board than a plastic fantastic.

Thant is a really nice one. How much maintenance in time and cost will it be per annum? 

[VincePam]

15 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I've posted this before - but "a picture is worth 1000 words"

 

Bridge 'heights' can vary tremendously depending on the shape of the boat.

 

 

 

So that matters as the min headspace needs to be there

[VincePam]

14 hours ago, magnetman said:

I did 12 yars of solitary in narrow boats 32ft up to 72ft, have had a big boat and finally settled on having two steel boats a bit wider than narrow boats but not very big. 40x9 and 30x10ft6. 

 

 

The situation with the OP is a need to rent the house out and get money AND accommodate parents and an older offspring in a boat. Presumably this is a cost cutting measure and quite understandable. 

 

The point with GRP boats is they are usually made for summer use. If there is no suitable insulation, which is possible, how are you going to heat the boat? This is assuming it is large enough to accommodate two adults and a teenage offspring unit. 

 

Insulating a boat after the event is a serious bit of work. 

Not really.  My plan with my wife was to start travelling around. Our jobs won't change, nor revenues, which are already ok as they are. Renting house is additional revenue but not a need. However the young boy still has to have his environment (school and friends) stable, so while waiting for that to change, the idea is to start moving aboard, making a small step just in case the rest of the family, now enthusiastic, will find it not a good lifestyle. Hence a limit to the budget, as first step, and looking for something that can be sold back to the market as we could go back to standard life or buy something different after having the experience of the first boat, or the boy going to Uni, whichever happens first. So target is to buy something that I cannot regret after a month, easy to maintain (not enough experience to do most of it on my own and I work so do not want to perform bad at work because I have to fix something every day on the boat), comfortable enough (heat and dry included) to properly live and work on board. I understood that if around Cambridge can be a wider beam, but that will have limitations in the future if touring the north especially. However the investment on the boat and fittings should make sense in case we resell it in two years or so to upgrade or have new lifestyle ideas ( or old lifestyle ideas) as I find it not particularly clever to work a lot and spend a lot to fit a boat meant to be sold 2 years later and start over again.

 

15 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

As mentioned above there are likely to be insulation problems with this sort of craft and therefore very fast heat loss. Yes it does have a fire in there but if there is no actual insulation then it could end up being a very costly fire to run and you would get shed loads of condensation..

 

I think this will be a damp boat. 

Lots of windows and grp. I see your point. Target is something dry and warm. I am getting to old to live in a dump and cold environment  

[VincePam]

15 hours ago, Loddon said:

This comment is ringing alarm bells for me.

It leads me to think that wife and kid have not bought into this new style of living 100% and its something hubby wants to do.

Means it could well end in disaster, I have seen it happen multiple times.

 

we all have. No experience in canal liveaboard. But we'll give it a try. We sure know how is to leave in a house. Comfy but we need a bit more excitement (without having to live like in a trench)

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, VincePam said:

we all have. No experience in canal liveaboard. But we'll give it a try. We sure know how is to leave in a house. Comfy but we need a bit more excitement (without having to live like in a trench)

 

Living in a narrowboat is akin to living in a 6 foot diameter sewer pipe.

 

 

30 minutes ago, VincePam said:

So that matters as the min headspace needs to be there

 

Boats and bridges are 3 dimensional and as such all three characteristics must 'work' for you to get thru a bridge :

 

Height of boat above the water (Airdraft)

Width of boat (beam)

Shape of boat.

 

Height of bridge 

Width of bridge

Shape of bridge (eg an arched bridge will be very restrictive to a widebeam, compared to a 'flat' bridge)

 

A canal narrows where a bridge is built across it (called a bridge 'hole') you may be able to get your boat along a 20 foot wide canal, but a 12 foot beam boat won't go thru a 10 foot wide 'bridge hole' irrespective of how high the bridge is.

 

Well designed boats (both narrow and wide) will have cabin sides that slope inwards (called tumblehome) so that the boat is narrower at height and can fit thru bridges and tunnels without smashing the 'corners' of the cabin on the brickwork. Cheaply built boats designed for 'living the London life' and offering maximum space will have vertical cabin sides.

Having tumblehome makes it much easier to walk along the gunwales - vertical sides try to 'push you off balance'.

[VincePam]

14 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

This one is outside the OPs budget at £75k, so mainly for interest (although it was valued at £50k and has had some work done since that doesn't really increase its  value to £75k).

 

This one has had a lot of rebuild and refit work done, including apparently both floor and wall insulation, and some form of extra glazing for insulation. 

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/wilds-bahama-42-for-sale/720095

 

Not perfect by any means, and they've under specced a few of the components (only a 1.6kw inverter for example, which might be a bit feeble for a family situation). 

Also it has bottled gas heating, which could be very expensive, and a SF stove might be better? 

But its an example that there are at least a few examples out there of wide beam GRPs that have been fixed (or could be fixed) to address the insulation issue. 

I wouldn't fancy a 1975 perkins diesel, even if reconditioned in 2017, so that is a significant issue in my eyes.

But its had a shedload of work done, and (with some limitations) its probably almost ready to just turn the key and cruise. 

 

 

This looks attractive. Thanks

[TheBiscuits]

23 minutes ago, VincePam said:

we need a bit more excitement (without having to live like in a trench)

 

Yeah, who would want to live in a muddy ditch filled with water! 

 

[VincePam]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Living in a narrowboat is akin to living in a 6 foot diameter sewer pipe.

 

 

 

Boats and bridges are 3 dimensional and as such all three characteristics must 'work' for you to get thru a bridge :

 

Height of boat above the water (Airdraft)

Width of boat (beam)

Shape of boat.

 

Height of bridge 

Width of bridge

Shape of bridge (eg an arched bridge will be very restrictive to a widebeam, compared to a 'flat' bridge)

 

A canal narrows where a bridge is built across it (called a bridge 'hole') you may be able to get your boat along a 20 foot wide canal, but a 12 foot beam boat won't go thru a 10 foot wide 'bridge hole' irrespective of how high the bridge is.

 

Well designed boats (both narrow and wide) will have cabin sides that slope inwards (called tumblehome) so that the boat is narrower at height and can fit thru bridges and tunnels without smashing the 'corners' of the cabin on the brickwork. Cheaply built boats designed for 'living the London life' and offering maximum space will have vertical cabin sides.

Having tumblehome makes it much easier to walk along the gunwales - vertical sides try to 'push you off balance'.

Always very useful comments. Thanks. I will now have to start viewing some of those boats 

[ditchcrawler]

35 minutes ago, VincePam said:

Not really.  My plan with my wife was to start travelling around. Our jobs won't change, nor revenues, which are already ok as they are. Renting house is additional revenue but not a need. However the young boy still has to have his environment (school and friends) stable, so while waiting for that to change, the idea is to start moving aboard, making a small step just in case the rest of the family, now enthusiastic, will find it not a good lifestyle. Hence a limit to the budget, as first step, and looking for something that can be sold back to the market as we could go back to standard life or buy something different after having the experience of the first boat, or the boy going to Uni, whichever happens first. So target is to buy something that I cannot regret after a month, easy to maintain (not enough experience to do most of it on my own and I work so do not want to perform bad at work because I have to fix something every day on the boat), comfortable enough (heat and dry included) to properly live and work on board. I understood that if around Cambridge can be a wider beam, but that will have limitations in the future if touring the north especially. However the investment on the boat and fittings should make sense in case we resell it in two years or so to upgrade or have new lifestyle ideas ( or old lifestyle ideas) as I find it not particularly clever to work a lot and spend a lot to fit a boat meant to be sold 2 years later and start over again.

 

Lots of windows and grp. I see your point. Target is something dry and warm. I am getting to old to live in a dump and cold environment  

This to me suggests that if you want a boat you should buy the very best you can afford so hopefully other than routine maintenance you don't need to do anything to it. That way if it doesn't work out you will still have a valuable asset to sell. Buy something that needs work and investment and it doesn't work out, if work has started on it it will be a lot harder to sell and a lot less valuable, so you could lose a lot.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Yeah, who would want to live in a muddy ditch occasionally filled with water! 

 

FTFY