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testing for gas leaks using a bubble tester


paul wilderness

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I am currently having a disagreement with a BSS examiner about the correct way to check gas system for leaks using a bubble tester.

The set up on my boat is very simple .I have one gas bottle in a cabinet at the stern. I fitted the bubble tester a few inches away from the valve on the bottle. This was done more than 10 years ago and has proved to be satisfacory at previous BSS examinations. The gas is supplied to the original hob (as built) thus has no flame failure device. There is also a Propex heater.

I use the bubble tester occasionally and have always believed that the test for leaks should be as folllows;     

 

Turn off all appliances.   Turn the gas supply on at the bottle.   Press down the red button on the tester and wait for at least ten seconds.  If there are no bubbles in the glass, there are no leaks in the system.  My examiner did not carry out that procedure and subsequently stated that he was unable to continue the testing of the gas system (fail)

I am not saying on this post what the examiner actually did becaause I wish to find someone on this forum who is intrigued to know what happened.

I look forward to responses

  Paul

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Formal letter of complaint to the BSS office asking for a refund - not tat you are likely to get one or get any effective action against the examiner if precedent is anything to go by. I am sure the procedure you describe is as it should be, but happy for someone who has one to say differently.

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You are one of the latest boaters to fall foul of the BSS system..

Unfortunately the examiners are not required to do what is written in the guidelines, thay are simply allowed to interpret the rules to mean whatever they want them to mean.

There have been a number of examples of something 'failing' and having to be replaced / changed, and then the next examiner fails that and insists it should be turned back to how it was previously.

 

 I have complained, a number of times, to the BSS and the best you are likely to get is "we will discuss with the examiner and decide if he needs further training" nothing is ever heard again.

 

You will not get a refund, you will not get an apology and if you go to another examiner, you'll just have to pay it all again. Just shrug your shoulders and accept the BSS is just a cost of getting a licence.

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1 hour ago, paul wilderness said:

I use the bubble tester occasionally and have always believed that the test for leaks should be as folllows;     

 

 

Have you considered consulting the instructions?

 

I usually happen to have a bubble tester about my person so will post a photo of the relevant bit shortly...

 

:)

 

Edit to add:

The manual says pretty much the same as you are doing but I'm fairly sure the test period was extended to one minute a few years ago. This one I have here is actually about ten years old.

 

 

Edited by MtB
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1 hour ago, paul wilderness said:

I use the bubble tester occasionally and have always believed that the test for leaks should be as folllows;     

 

Turn off all appliances.   Turn the gas supply on at the bottle.   Press down the red button on the tester and wait for at least ten seconds.  If there are no bubbles in the glass, there are no leaks in the system. 

 

The prescribed test depends on the model and age of your bubble tester and is detailed in Appendix D & D1 of the BSS Examination and checking procedures. (pages 101-104)

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/299273/bss-examination-checking-procedures-interim-public-version.pdf

 

It's not what you posted ...

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1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

@MtB it's not that either!

 

See my previous post.

 

In the world of gas, the MI are the ultimate authority. If you can prove you followed the MI then any prosecution will fail.

 

The BSS office is regarded as a loose cannon and a complete PITA according to someone I know who does HSE investigations (into what they euphemistically refer to as 'gas incidents').

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24 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

In the world of gas, the MI are the ultimate authority. If you can prove you followed the MI then any prosecution will fail.

 

The BSS office is regarded as a loose cannon and a complete PITA according to someone I know who does HSE investigations (into what they euphemistically refer to as 'gas incidents').

Forgive my ignorance

MI?

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Formal letter of complaint to the BSS office asking for a refund - not tat you are likely to get one or get any effective action against the examiner if precedent is anything to go by. I am sure the procedure you describe is as it should be, but happy for someone who has one to say differently.

Thanks for your reply.  The examiner went to the gas locker and asked me to stand by the cooker . He called to me asking me to light the cooker. He pressed the button on the tester and (not surprisingly) the lit cooker was extinguished. We repeated that several times although I was sure that was not the correct procedure.   Some sources say that having san appliance lit is likely to damage the tester

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38 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

@MtB it's not that either!

 

See my previous post.

 

May I ask that you show the actual text you refer to. As far as I can see there is reference to "see check 7.12.1 but the text seems to jumps 8 before you get to 7.12.1, maybe I missed it in some way, but I don't think so

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1 minute ago, paul wilderness said:

Thanks for your reply.  The examiner went to the gas locker and asked me to stand by the cooker . He called to me asking me to light the cooker. He pressed the button on the tester and (not surprisingly) the lit cooker was extinguished. We repeated that several times although I was sure that was not the correct procedure.   Some sources say that having san appliance lit is likely to damage the tester

 

 

This is insane!

 

Of course the cooker will go out. Is he (presumably he) saying this constitutes a fail?

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

May I ask that you show the actual text you refer to. As far as I can see there is reference to "see check 7.12.1 but the text seems to jumps 8 before you get to 7.12.1, maybe I missed it in some way, but I don't think so

 

49 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Appendix D & D1 of the BSS Examination and checking procedures. (pages 101-104)

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/299273/bss-examination-checking-procedures-interim-public-version.pdf

 

 

It's not in the checklist, it's the appendix that details the test preparation and process. Pages 101-104 on the link.

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6 minutes ago, paul wilderness said:

The examiner went to the gas locker and asked me to stand by the cooker . He called to me asking me to light the cooker. He pressed the button on the tester and (not surprisingly) the lit cooker was extinguished. We repeated that several times although I was sure that was not the correct procedure.

 

D.2 Procedure: Fluid Check

1. Ignite a small burner (e.g. on gas hob / pilot burner).

2. Depress fully the test button, fit the proprietary clamp, and check for bubbles appearing in the fluid chamber.

 

Note 2 When the test button is depressed bubbles should appear in the fluid chamber thereby confirming that fluid is present and the detector is operating. Allow the bubbles to flow for at least 10 seconds. If no bubbles appear there may be insufficient fluid in the chamber or the detector may not be operating correctly. If no bubbles appear do not proceed with the test and record a fail at 7.12.1.

 

Note 3 When bubbles are seen during this fluid check procedure, but they are erratic in their flow rate or size, it is likely that the detector is faulty and it should therefore be taken that it is not operating correctly. Under such circumstances do not proceed with the test and record a fail at 7.12.1.

 

3. Turn off the small burner.

 

(Page 102-103)

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10 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

D.2 Procedure: Fluid Check

1. Ignite a small burner (e.g. on gas hob / pilot burner).

2. Depress fully the test button, fit the proprietary clamp, and check for bubbles appearing in the fluid chamber.

 

Note 2 When the test button is depressed bubbles should appear in the fluid chamber thereby confirming that fluid is present and the detector is operating. Allow the bubbles to flow for at least 10 seconds. If no bubbles appear there may be insufficient fluid in the chamber or the detector may not be operating correctly. If no bubbles appear do not proceed with the test and record a fail at 7.12.1.

 

Note 3 When bubbles are seen during this fluid check procedure, but they are erratic in their flow rate or size, it is likely that the detector is faulty and it should therefore be taken that it is not operating correctly. Under such circumstances do not proceed with the test and record a fail at 7.12.1.

 

3. Turn off the small burner.

 

(Page 102-103)

 

I agree, but surely the examiner should have given the reason for he failure - Failed fluid test, possibly lack of fluid or faulty tester. If he bypassed the leak test I would want to know why.

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13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I agree, but surely the examiner should have given the reason for he failure - Failed fluid test, possibly lack of fluid or faulty tester. If he bypassed the leak test I would want to know why.

 

We don't know if he did or not provide a reason as @paul wilderness hasn't said what his failure notice says - or indeed if he ever got given one.

 

While I'm strongly in favour of pulling up BSS examiners who make up their own rules, it seems a bit much to berate them for actually following the procedures.

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11 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

We don't know if he did or not provide a reason as @paul wilderness hasn't said what his failure notice says - or indeed if he ever got given one.

 

While I'm strongly in favour of pulling up BSS examiners who make up their own rules, it seems a bit much to berate them for actually following the procedures.

 

I agree, but neither of us were there and in light of a series of complaints/reports on here I would tend to side with the OP. I have never had a BSS failure because I made  sure the boat was complaint, but not every one can do that.

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22 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

We don't know if he did or not provide a reason as @paul wilderness hasn't said what his failure notice says - or indeed if he ever got given one.

 

While I'm strongly in favour of pulling up BSS examiners who make up their own rules, it seems a bit much to berate them for actually following the procedures.

 

What is the procedure in the event of an examination discovering a 'fail' point? I read sometimes of examiners terminating an inspection at the first fail point. 

 

I'd expect the examiner to complete the examination in case there are other fail points too, then issue a fail certificate listing the fail points and what needs to be done. But the OP is vague on whether this happened and he received a written fail ticket. 

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1 hour ago, paul wilderness said:

Yes, that was the end of the examination (fail)


If you have paid your money I think it would be reasonable to expect him to continue testing everything else. This is certainly what would happen in a vehicle MOT. After all it would be annoying if he found a fault and went away, you fixed the fault, you had to pay for a retest, and then he found another fault a bit further down the test schedule.

 

However it does seem he was right to fail the gas test. Checking that the bubble tester does actually detect leakage is an important part of the test, after all there is no point in having a bubble tester If it doesn’t allow gas to flow through when the button is pressed.

 

Obviously I wasn’t there and I have no idea what sort of person you are, but one possibility for his conduct is that your demeanour after he said the gas was a fail, made him want to leave. Please don’t take offence, that is not an accusation, I have no idea how things transpired, but as we know there are 3 different truths in every tale, what you experienced, what he experienced, and what actually happened.

 

 

Edited by nicknorman
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The examiner should complete the BSS examination so all fail points are identified, that said, if the tester was deemed defective (eg no test fluid) then it is impossible for the examiner to check the lpg system for leaks, so that would not be completed.  But the rest eg fuel systems, electrics etc should be done.  However if it is possible the gas system ‘might’ be leaking (ie it can’t be checked) and the boater refused to turn off the gas at the bottle, then it would be reasonable for the examiner to terminate the test if they felt the boat was potentially unsafe - which I am sure was not the case with the op.

  • Greenie 1
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