Metal connector piece dropped into gearbox

[booke23]

The main drain plug is underneath the gearbox on the PRM 120. I'd get this off and see what you can feel. I think it also has a side drain plug towards the rear of the gearbox....both 18mm bolt heads If I remember. 

 

Before you go paying lots of money for RCR to fix it or do anything else, maybe order one of these borescopes and have a look around inside the gearbox and report back here. 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by booke23

[magnetman]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If you are going to take the gearbox off, can't you just turn it upside down and try and shake the thing out of the hole it went in through?

 

From the original Amazon picture it looks like the item is quite long. About 2 inches which would make it awkward to line up. 

 

This object presumably 

 

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

From the original Amazon picture it looks like the item is quite long. About 2 inches which would make it awkward to line up. 

 

 That is my fear about trying to use any of the linked items to get it out. At least the shuftyscope should allow you to see where it has lodged.

[magnetman]

Suction could work I think. Reduce the vacuum cleaner intake size down to something like a garden hose and just stick it in there and wiggle it around. You might have to tape over the pressure relief valve on the vacuum cleaner and possibly best not to use an immaculate one but usually one can find dysons in the bin due to their awful quality. "It made the wife more approachable" was the marketing I believe. 

 

It could work.  At least worth a go although if he can't run the engine he won't have power to run a vac anyway. 

 

 

[howardang]

On an earlier boat with a BMC engine and PRM gearbox, I went to check the gearbox oil level. The dipstick was a nut which you loosened with a spanner with the dipstick had unscrewed itself from the nut and fallen into the gearbox. We were moored in the country not too far from Fradley and I had already had the engine in gear that morning so I had no idea how long since the dipstick had become unattached but there were no adverse sound effects from the gearbox so I took a risk and set off slowly towards Fradley, arriving safely about an hour later with no issues. It took about an hour for the engineer about an hour to fish the dipstick out and we were on our way after a lucky escape! 

 

Howard

Just now, howardang said:

On an earlier boat with a BMC engine and PRM gearbox, I went to check the gearbox oil level. The dipstick was a nut which you loosened with a spanner with the dipstick attached. On inspection the dipstick had unscrewed itself from the underside of the nut  the nut and fallen into the gearbox. We were moored in the country not too far from Fradley and I had already had the engine in gear that morning so I had no idea how long since the dipstick had become unattached but there were no adverse sound effects from the gearbox so I took a risk and set off slowly towards Fradley, arriving safely about an hour later with no issues. It took about an hour for the engineer about an hour to fish the dipstick out and we were on our way after a lucky escape! 

 

Howard

 

[Tony1]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Just checked the web, it seems the front of the box comes off, so no need to remove the coupling.

 

Thanks Tony, that would be a relief. Its PRM120 D2, serial no V015100

But the RCR guy who called said he would have to strip the box to get the metal out- he didn't even mention options of trying to fish it out. 

Thankfully I had the foresight to charge up the batteries to 80% before I started the oil change, so I've got enough power for tonight, but if he doesn't sort it out tomorrow I might be in trouble. 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 That is my fear about trying to use any of the linked items to get it out. At least the shuftyscope should allow you to see where it has lodged.

 

I do like the look of that scope but it wont arrive until tomorrow late afternoon, and by then the RCR guy will have been in site for a couple of hours hopefully.

 

 

Apologies for not replying individually to all these helpful responses folks- thanks very much, I have read them all but I need to get a couple of things sorted so not much time to reply properly at the moment. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

It doesn't help sort out your problem, but I wondered why you wouldn't just use the supplied drain plug - unscrew it and catch the oil in a ice cream tub (other tubs available) 

 

Why would you try and use a syringe in the 1st place ?

[rusty69]

33 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Suction could work I think. Reduce the vacuum cleaner intake size down to something like a garden hose and just stick it in there and wiggle it around. You might have to tape over the pressure relief valve on the vacuum cleaner and possibly best not to use an immaculate one but usually one can find dysons in the bin due to their awful quality. "It made the wife more approachable" was the marketing I believe. 

 

It could work.  At least worth a go although if he can't run the engine he won't have power to run a vac anyway. 

 

 

Yep. I know someone that had success using this method.Though he mai have just been lucky.

 

(I left a spelling error in for you to pick up on. Hop that is oK)

 

ETA. For clarity, the vacuum thing in the gearbox, not the wife thing.

Edited January 5, 2023 by rusty69

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Yep. I know someone that had success using this method.Though he mai have just been lucky.

 

(I left a spelling error in for you to pick up on. Hop that is oK)

The gearbox or the wife?

[rusty69]

Just now, magnetman said:

The gearbox or the wife?

See my edit. Cos, I just knew you was gonna say that.

[magnetman]

That's good to hear it can work. I never tried it but when another poster mentioned a straw it suddenly occurred to me. 

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

That's good to hear it can work. I never tried it but when another poster mentioned a straw it suddenly occurred to me. 

I don't think his wife was best please. Maybe he didn't drain the oil out of the gearbooox first.

[magnetman]

Do you have an issue with the letter o? Is it a sticky key by any chance. 

[rusty69]

Just now, magnetman said:

Do you have an issue with the letter o? Is it a sticky key by any chance. 

Yes, I di as ot happens.Ot's right next to the 'i' on my keyboard. Whoever desogned the qwerty keybiard obvs didn't firsee their use on smartphines. AZERTY, COLEMAK and DVORAK are nit much better. O kniw. O've Troed the lit.

[Tony1]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I suspect not, I think it is a layshaft box, so parts and gears will be turning all the time the engine is running. As Cheshire Cat advises stick your finger or a length of soft wood up the drain plug hole to see how much gap there is between case and gears.

 

Thanks for your advice Tony- and once again thanks everyone for your advice and suggestions.

 

I'm going to move the boat closer to Ellesmere services tomorrow- plan is to tow past moored boats by walking down the outside gunnels with the rope, and thanksfully the wind will be pushing the boat towards me rather than away.

If possible I might try to get it into the boatyard mooring next to the dry dock- if I can push it across the cut  somehow. 

I'm not sure I'll manage that because there will be a pretty fresh breeze blowing against me, but you never know, and a few boaters have already offered to help move it.

But either way the most useful thing I can do is to get it closer to where he can park his van, and get the oil drained out of it ready for his arrival.

 

PS - I edited the pics so they will now upload. 

I told the RCR guy it was a PRM120D and he seemed pretty sure that it would have to come apart to get at the insides. 

He's not arriving until early afternoon tomorrow, so I hope he's able to complete the full job in a few hours, or I am at risk of running out of charge tomorrow evening.

There's not even anywhere local I could buy a genny, unless I catch a bus to Oswestry. 

 

It has made me think that it might be worth buying a genny as a backup, although in fairness this is the first time in over 2 years that I've not been able to use the engine. 

 

[Feeby100]

So am I correct in thinking rcr would come out and remove box and repair all in the gold cover ? 
so to good I must have it wrong

[Alan de Enfield]

The normal process is :

 

They come and look at it and say - I don't have the correct tools with me . I'll come back tommorow.

day two they come back and remove the gear box

day 3 ( or 4 or 5 or 6 depending) they will call you and say we can offer you a refurbished gearbox today, or you can wait another week or so to get yours repaired. You accept.

 

Next day they come back with a reconditioned gear box and fit it on the boat. If your part is 'on the list' then it will be supplied FoC. If it is not then you get charged for it.

In your case I would expect that as you dropped the part into the gearbox, they will charge you for the 'repair'.

 

 

 

The following is not covered by Replacement Parts Cover:

Wear and tear of Specified Parts which has not resulted in complete failure

Bolts, brackets and welding that attach the Specified Part

Lack of oil in the gearbox due to poor maintenance

Outboards & outdrives which are not serviced annually (evidence required when making claim)

Any part not listed

Costs to get access to part (i.e. dismantling / removal of engine).

Consumables such as cables, filters, rubber components and the like that require routine wear and tear replacement

All warranty’s on parts supplied are provided by the manufacturer, refurbished or supplier.

Fuel contamination (such as diesel bug or water in fuel) leading to failure of part.

Water ingress leading to failure of part.

All warranty’s on parts supplied are provided by the manufacturer, refurbished or supplier.

 

 

Your 'old' gearbox is then stripped and the bit of metal removed, it is then sold to the next person as a replacement.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[magnetman]

There is that, yes.

 

Careful now !

[system 4-50]

If it was me it would be worth one final thorough check that the missing piece did not fall off and is now laying under the gearbox, but its not.

[magnetman]

Is there some sort of expression here like "I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them and my throwing arm is broken" to be applied here?
 

 

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Just to check- is it safe to run the engine in neutral?

 

At least way I'll have plenty of charge until RCR can sort it

 

Bits of the box will still be spinning with it in neutral as the input shaft will be spinning.

 

You think you have problems, I was working on a North Sea Offshore Supply boat where the "engineer" did basically the same thing on one of the gearboxes. About 3 days work retrieving it

[Tony1]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Bits of the box will still be spinning with it in neutral as the input shaft will be spinning.

 

You think you have problems, I was working on a North Sea Offshore Supply boat where the "engineer" did basically the same thing on one of the gearboxes. About 3 days work retrieving it

 

To be honest Brian, other than the boat sinking, none of these problems are as scary as issues that happen offshore, especially in bad weather. 

All being well, I'll haul the boat to where they can access it and it the gearbox will be stripped, emptied, and reassembled tomorrow or the day after. 

The worst that should happen is I have to spend a night with candles and no fridge. 

But since you mention it, I'm actually wondering about the idea of moving onto a sailboat in 2 or 3 years and cruising to the Med and beyond, but it will depend on how able-bodied I am at the time. 

 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

A lot of people who live on the ditches here go through this process of considering the life at sea. I think this is what the roses and castles thing on the doors was about.

 

I sometimes wonder how many of them actually end up doing it. A life under canvas on the open seas without a care in the world must be a beautiful thing.

 

 

[Tony1]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

A lot of people who live on the ditches here go through this process of considering the life at sea. I think this is what the roses and castles thing on the doors was about.

 

I sometimes wonder how many of them actually end up doing it. A life under canvas on the open seas without a care in the world must be a beautiful thing.

 

 

 

Wow, I had no idea that was the inspiration for the roses and castles art.

I suspect very few canal boaters end up on salt water, because the truth is that cruising across oceans on a 35ft sailboat is way more hardcore than CCing on a 57ft narrowboat- and why would anyone put themselves through that ultra minimalist lifestyle just to see lots of waves and emptiness? Especially solo sailing, with persistently interrupted sleep, limited food options, very limited water? 

I spent a week on a tall ship decades ago, and I was as sick as a dog for the first 18 hours of rough weather- it was a nightmare.

And I was amazed to hear that in some parts of the Southern Oceans, the nearest human beings might be the people on the international space station, as it orbits about 200 miles up, and you may be a thousand miles from the nearest land. 

Most people, quite sensibly, would prefer to take an airliner, and get to their destination in an afternoon.  

To be honest I could stand the isolation, but crossing the Atlantic with the same size water tank as I have to cruise the Llangollen might be a bit too hardcore for me. 

At the moment it seems unlikely, but it is an idea that has been poking at me. 

 

 

[Slim]

22 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

To be honest Brian, other than the boat sinking, none of these problems are as scary as issues that happen offshore, especially in bad weather. 

All being well, I'll haul the boat to where they can access it and it the gearbox will be stripped, emptied, and reassembled tomorrow or the day after. 

The worst that should happen is I have to spend a night with candles and no fridge. 

But since you mention it, I'm actually wondering about the idea of moving onto a sailboat in 2 or 3 years and cruising to the Med and beyond, but it will depend on how able-bodied I am at the time. 

 

 

 

 

 

When the box is removed is the engine sitting securely on all it's mountings? If so I can see no reason why the engine cannot be started to give you a bit of charge. Mind you I've not seen your set up so may be talking rubbish.