Mooring at Llangollen to rise to £20 per night?

[Tonka]

3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I think CRTs objectives need to considered, if they were to increase the number of pay-to-moor locations, to include places like Nantwich and Chester etc. 

Are they trying to solve a problem of overstaying in popular spots, or do they want to gain more revenue- or perhaps both?

The level of enforcement doesn't seem overly strict at the moment, judging from the number of boats I've seen stay for more than a week on the 48 hour Nantwich moorings. 

And to make the enforcement effective it would probably require more staff patrolling those paid moorings- perhaps a third of a full-time person to enforce at Nantwich?

So there is a significant staff cost in implementing that, plus the up front cost of the IT system plus an app to manage it, plus any hardware/electricity meters etc.

And the mooring price would have to be set such that they would at least recoup the annual enforcement cost, but it would also have to be acceptable to the target customers.

CRT know that there are thousands of boaters who would hardly ever use the Nantwich moorings again if there was a daily charge, so they don't want to go too high and have the moorings deserted most of the time. 

I bet they've already done a quick estimate of how much revenue there might be form paid visitor moorings. 

If there were (very roughly) 50 paid moorings marked out at Nantwich, and if they had a bit under 30% occupancy over a year, then they'd see a total of maybe 5,000 uses per year? 

To recoup a staff/enforcement cost of say £20k per year, and to also encourage more use of the moorings, you'd want to set the charge at £4 or £5, right?

So it could probably pay for itself (not including the cost of the IT system and the app), but then you'd have lots of boats moored (for free) just to the south of Nantwich, more or less semi-permanently, so the congestion problem would just move south.  

I don't honestly see that much revenue in it for them, at first glance anyway.

Llangollen is a special case as it includes the electricity, which itself now has a significant cost.

not if CRT put a small turbine at Horseshoe falls

[frahkn]

19 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Is that an actual fact?

because i get fed up with the news reports where they show poor people who always seem to have the latest smartphone, designer trainers and fags.

I could not be fairly described as "poor" but I don't have a smart phone.

 

I have never smoked (not tobacco anyway) and I haven't owned a pair of trainers in 20 years.

 

This doesn't prove anything about the real world, nor do "news reports".

[ditchcrawler]

28 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Is that an actual fact?

because i get fed up with the news reports where they show poor people who always seem to have the latest smartphone, designer trainers and fags.

I think it is. I have only taken to a smart phone recently, the old one was definitely better for making phone calls and there are people who are a lot more luddite than me. A member on here has always professed he doesnt have a credit card

[MtB]

Given what a useful tool a smartphone is for modern life, it always strikes me as plain perverse not to have one.

 

Especially for people who already have a computer, as they will know how useful a mobile computer in your pocket could be. 

 

 

[Momac]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

If this is a serious suggestion, then only if they thought they wouldn't get caught. Have you seen the threads on paying for Thames moorings by App. not all boaters have a smart phone or a credit card.

I get the smart phone thing among the very  elderly  although I wouldn't want to be without one on the boat even if its shared with  the chief officer .

Payments for parking (mooring ) can be made using a regular old school  phone. Next you will suggest there re boaters who don't even have that.

But really there are people who own a boat but  don't have a credit /debit card ? If so I doubt they would be the sort that would consider stopping any where there requires a mooring fee to be paid.

 

Anyway this is a discussion forum so I am just making conversation . It seems there are  already moorings that require payment so seems like an opportunity for C&RT to create income by more of the same .

Naturally enough I can see folks objecting of they think they will be worse off. 

C&RT need more money otherwise they will have to cut costs drastically which would probably involve  shutting down some navigations . Open to offers on alternative ways for C&RT  to make money.

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I get the smart phone thing among the very  elderly  although I wouldn't want to be without one on the boat even if its shared with  the chief officer .

Payments for parking (mooring ) can be made using a regular old school  phone. Next you will suggest there re boaters who don't even have that.

But really there are people who own a boat but  don't have a credit /debit card ? If so I doubt they would be the sort that would consider stopping any where there requires a mooring fee to be paid.

 

Anyway this is a discussion forum so I am just making conversation . It seems there are  already moorings that require payment so seems like an opportunity for C&RT to create income by more of the same .

Naturally enough I can see folks objecting of they think they will be worse off. 

C&RT need more money otherwise they will have to cut costs drastically which would probably involve  shutting down some navigations . Open to offers on alternative ways for C&RT  to make money.

 

 

 

So where do you stop, charge at every designated visitor mooring, charge more per night on a 2 day mooring than a 14 day one. Charge for Watford, Foxton, Bingley locks. Its sounds a very slippery slope for boaters to me.

 

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

So where do you stop, charge at every designated visitor mooring, charge more per night on a 2 day mooring than a 14 day one. Charge for Watford, Foxton, Bingley locks. Its sounds a very slippery slope for boaters to me.

 

Charging for Foxton Inclined Plane

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Charging for Foxton Inclined Plane

That would be a very slippery slope 😏

[Arthur Marshall]

4 hours ago, Tonka said:

Is that an actual fact?

because i get fed up with the news reports where they show poor people who always seem to have the latest smartphone, designer trainers and fags.

I'm poor, and I haven't got one... it's the Eton boys who have fags, anyway.

[Tony1]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I'm poor, and I haven't got one... it's the Eton boys who have fags, anyway.

 

Arthur, you gotta get hip with the times.

Only squares don't have a smartphone these days.

Us cool cats all have them, daddio.

 

[MtB]

21 hours ago, MartynG said:

But really there are people who own a boat but  don't have a credit /debit card ? If so I doubt they would be the sort that would consider stopping any where there requires a mooring fee to be paid.

 

I think there quite possibly are. 

 

I certainly encounter people once in while who say they are off the system, paying cash for everything and claiming not to have even a bank account. 

 

I'm not sure I believe them though as I think living truly under the radar must be quite difficult. One would need to not have an NI number, or conventional employment, or a GP I think. And never claim any sort of benefits. Once you are ON the system, I think it must be difficult to just vanish off it. 

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

On 09/01/2023 at 12:55, ditchcrawler said:

So where do you stop, charge at every designated visitor mooring, charge more per night on a 2 day mooring than a 14 day one. Charge for Watford, Foxton, Bingley locks. Its sounds a very slippery slope for boaters to me.

 

A slippery slope but one which CRT may well have to go down if the waterways are to be maintained to a useable standard.

[Momac]

On 09/01/2023 at 12:55, ditchcrawler said:

So where do you stop, charge at every designated visitor mooring, charge more per night on a 2 day mooring than a 14 day one. Charge for Watford, Foxton, Bingley locks. Its sounds a very slippery slope for boaters to me.

 

I would say the charges would be more connected with facilities provided by C&RT.

The idea of charging to moor already exists . Its just a matter of expanding on that .

 

I had hoped there would be suggestions of other ways that C&RT could make money but it seems not at present.

 

[Paul C]

On 08/01/2023 at 14:37, ditchcrawler said:

I don't care what CRT want to charge to moor in their Marina, If I wanted to moor in there I would pay what they wanted. What I object to is paying to moor on the towpath. There is nowhere in Llangollen you can moor without paying, where next London, Banbury, Oxford. or anywhere where people want to moor?

 

 

I appreciate that you're entitled to object, but I don't believe there is a valid legal challenge to be made here. If you disagree, there is the option to remain disgruntled or start a judicial review on the charge. I am surprised its not been done already though.

On 09/01/2023 at 12:55, ditchcrawler said:

So where do you stop, charge at every designated visitor mooring, charge more per night on a 2 day mooring than a 14 day one. Charge for Watford, Foxton, Bingley locks. Its sounds a very slippery slope for boaters to me.

 

 

I imagine there is a balance to be struck for additional income vs cost of enforcement, so only popular, easily-policed spots would incur a charge.

[Arthur Marshall]

18 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

I appreciate that you're entitled to object, but I don't believe there is a valid legal challenge to be made here. If you disagree, there is the option to remain disgruntled or start a judicial review on the charge. I am surprised its not been done already though.

 

I imagine there is a balance to be struck for additional income vs cost of enforcement, so only popular, easily-policed spots would incur a charge.

Not worth challenging via any bit of the justice system. Would be a sheer waste of time and money.

I think popular, town and city centre moorings will be charged for, maybe, as at Llangollen, with a short free period to allow shopping and moving on.  There used to be a mooring at Stone, by the car park, with a 2 hour stay limit for easy shopping, but after one boat stayed there for a couple of years CRT obviously gave up and changed it to 48 hour.

[Pie Eater]

4 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Not worth challenging via any bit of the justice system. Would be a sheer waste of time and money.

I think popular, town and city centre moorings will be charged for, maybe, as at Llangollen, with a short free period to allow shopping and moving on.  There used to be a mooring at Stone, by the car park, with a 2 hour stay limit for easy shopping, but after one boat stayed there for a couple of years CRT obviously gave up and changed it to 48 hour.

I think that you are allowed to stay in the Llangollen basin until 5.00pm. After that the £6 charge applies.

[nbfiresprite]

On 10/01/2023 at 10:09, MtB said:

 

I think there quite possibly are. 

 

I certainly encounter people once in while who say they are off the system, paying cash for everything and claiming not to have even a bank account. 

 

I'm not sure I believe them though as I think living truly under the radar must be quite difficult. One would need to not have an NI number, or conventional employment, or a GP I think. And never claim any sort of benefits. Once you are ON the system, I think it must be difficult to just vanish off it. 

 

 

It is a fact that not everyone has a Bank or Building Society account, Although the percentage of people who are unbanked in the UK is relatively small, it still amounts to about 1.3 million people (FCA 2021). 

[PCSB]

31 minutes ago, Pie Eater said:

I think that you are allowed to stay in the Llangollen basin until 5.00pm. After that the £6 charge applies.

You get 4 hours free, after that the fee becomes payable.

[Arthur Marshall]

19 minutes ago, PCSB said:

You get 4 hours free, after that the fee becomes payable.

It suits me - just enough time to get to the bookshop and a bit of shopping.

[PCSB]

3 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It suits me - just enough time to get to the bookshop and a bit of shopping.

I think that is the general idea, dump the rubbish, top off with water and do some shopping.

[Pie Eater]

2 hours ago, PCSB said:

You get 4 hours free, after that the fee becomes payable.

I used to leave an overnight mooring early in Trevor and get to Llangollen basin before 10am and leave at 5.00pm.

 

Never noticed a 4 hour restriction.

[PCSB]

13 hours ago, Pie Eater said:

I used to leave an overnight mooring early in Trevor and get to Llangollen basin before 10am and leave at 5.00pm.

 

Never noticed a 4 hour restriction.

Yeah, it is on the blue sign near the waste bins. Not obvious if you don't moor that side of the basin.

[pig]

From today's Boater's Update:

 

"And for those who’ve seen online chatter about the moorings in Llangollen Basin, we are currently reviewing a range of options for the moorings at Llangollen, to improve them for visiting boaters and better reflect increasing costs.  More information will be released in the next couple of weeks, and we’d welcome the views of boaters and other users."

[Arthur Marshall]

I like the bit about improving the mooring for  visitors. I assume that means letting them pay more for no extra benefit.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Arthur Marshall