vintage astern/ahead wheel

[Tony Brooks]

29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Can you possibly explain to me what the bowden type cable(s) on the bottom left of the unit do ?

 

They do not look like bowden or even heavy duty morse cables to me. I think they look like metal hydraulic pipes that have been squashed when someone tried to put a bend in them I think that in the OP's setup they will be behind the pedestal.

 

There is what looks like a control cable on the OP's image, on the left and I take that to be for the small lever sticking out of the casting. Be it throttle, engine stop, or something else.

 

Edited to add: It would not surprise me if the light coloured scarf/rag wrapped around  the wheel shaft in the OP's photo does not turn out to be absorbing oil leaks.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

They do not look like bowden or even heavy duty morse cables to me. I think they look like metal hydraulic pipes that have been squashed when someone tried to put a bend in them I think that in the OP's setup they will be behind the pedestal.

 

Sorry to labour it - but there appears to be two large (1" od ?) rubber hydraulic hoses (yellow) feeding into each side of the rear of the wheel, those I could understand, but its the small one(s) that go up into the bottom of where the indicator button is, (Red) and disappear on the LH side behind the wheel that I cannot see a purpose for.

 

 

 

[Dav and Pen]

The cable you have ringed in red is for the speed control which is lever on the right hand. It’s quite a complicated set up and as it’s behind the steerer not easy to use when maneuvering. Below is how the gear wheel on the GU boats was situated, these were purely mechanical and in this case operated a parsons box on a PD2.

[Tony Brooks]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Sorry to labour it - but there appears to be two large (1" od ?) rubber hydraulic hoses (yellow) feeding into each side of the rear of the wheel, those I could understand, but its the small one(s) that go up into the bottom of where the indicator button is, (Red) and disappear on the LH side behind the wheel that I cannot see a purpose for.

 

 

 

 

Now we know which photo you are talking about. I said "There is what looks like a control cable on the OP's image, on the left and I take that to be for the small lever sticking out of the casting. Be it throttle, engine stop, or something else."

 

That is as far as I can go without inspecting the boat.

[jonesthenuke]

2 hours ago, EllaGlssp said:

Thanks so much! I’m actually in that group but never saw a post about it. Really appreciate the time

So EllaGlssp can we see photos of the engine and gearbox as you have raised our interest ?????

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, Dav and Pen said:

The cable you have ringed in red is for the speed control which is lever on the right hand. It’s quite a complicated set up and as it’s behind the steerer not easy to use when maneuvering. Below is how the gear wheel on the GU boats was situated, these were purely mechanical and in this case operated a parsons box on a PD2.

 

Is that an optical illusion, or is it really as low down as it appears?

It wouldn't make getting in and out without bruising your head any easier!

[Split Pin]

The one in the picture is the Gardner type that was supplied for both the 2UC & 3UC Gearboxes, most of which will have been fitted to fishing boats

Edited December 31, 2022 by Split Pin

[Split Pin]

The wheel drives a gear pump which is piped to a double acting cylinder, so depending on the direction of rotation of the hand wheel will engage Ahead or Astern.

The bowden cable connect to the gearchange mechanism and moves the position indicator.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Split Pin

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, Split Pin said:

The wheel drives a gear pump which is piped to a double acting cylinder, so depending on the direction of rotation of the hand wheel will engage Ahead or Astern.

The bowden cable connect to the gearchange mechanism and moves the position indicator.

 

Ah, so what I thought looked like a stop lever is, in fact, the gear indicator. Thanks, all good info.

[magnetman]

16 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Sorry to labour it - but there appears to be two large (1" od ?) rubber hydraulic hoses (yellow) feeding into each side of the rear of the wheel, those I could understand, but its the small one(s) that go up into the bottom of where the indicator button is, (Red) and disappear on the LH side behind the wheel that I cannot see a purpose for.

 

 

 

Without this cable and the sliding indicator which is the round slotted bolt head sliding up and down the cutout on the left of the header tank you wouldn't know if the gear change had actually worked  If the hydraulics were faulty the wheel would still turn but you would not know what was happening.  Well you might do on a small boat as you could feel it but on a big fishing boat engine a long way away from helm it would not be obvious. 

 

The OP needs to take the screwed cap off the top and make sure there is hydraulic fluid in the tank. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by magnetman

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

Without this cable and the sliding indicator which is the round slotted bolt head sliding up and down the cutout on the left of the header tank you wouldn't know if the gear change had actually worked  If the hydraulics were faulty the wheel would still turn but you would not know what was happening.  Well you might do on a small boat as you could feel it but on a big fishing boat engine a long way away from helm it would not be obvious. 

 

The OP needs to take the screwed cap off the top and make sure there is hydraulic fluid in the tank. 

 

I have a similar concept (but a far less complicated mechanism) with hydraulic steering and a rudder position indicator on both of my boats.

It is also connected into the autopilot (but I obviously could not use the AP on the canals and rivers)

[magnetman]

Yes. Hydraulics are a bit of a nuisance as you can't have a king spoke in the wheel. The bloke who built my wheel-steered trawler style boat got around this by having a duplex chain from back of steering wheel to drive to a sprocket on a 1 inch steel bar which travels to the stern via a universal joint then transfers movement via "something clever" to the rudders. I expect it is a gearbox of some sort but have not actually seen it. This means there is no creep or backlash it is a solid link and you can tell where the rudders are from the position of the wheel. There is a rudder indicator as well but it running straight off the back of the wheel. 

 

Prior to that I have had two boats with hydraulic steering including one identical to the steering in the OP photo. No rudder indicators in those boats but you can get centre by knowing how many turns it is "lock to lock", wind it over one way till it stops then wind it half way back. 

 

This is a good way to check that the rudder is unobstructed and everything is working properly. Every time you start moving do a full spin of the wheel and back to the middle. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by magnetman

[Richard Carter]

17 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Is that an optical illusion, or is it really as low down as it appears?

It wouldn't make getting in and out without bruising your head any easier!

 

Isn't this about the trade-off between "too-low-and-bash-the head" and "too-high-and trap-your-hand"? The one I used on Baldock (AS2 and Parsons F-type box) was high enough that when turning clockwise - into forward gear - you had to take hold of it at about 7 or 8 o'clock or risk squashing your knuckles against the hatches, especially as you had to yank it over quite firmly. Getting into the cabin I learned to swing in holding the gear wheel, so you know where it is ...

[Tracy D'arth]

I never knew that Heath Robinson worked at the big house in Patricroft. Looks like some of his handiwork.

[jonesthenuke]

53 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I never knew that Heath Robinson worked at the big house in Patricroft. Looks like some of his handiwork.

Agreed but definitely made to last - like the engines.

 

[BWM]

The surrounding woodwork shows dents where many a knuckle has been bashed. One thing about these controls is that if the original engine is changed for another with opposite rotation the control wheel tells lies!