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Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.


Alway Swilby

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4 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

A friend of mine cruised continuousy around the system for most of the year, but based himself for a few months in the winter on an official winter mooring. He went to the Local Council in which the winter mooring was based, offering to pay Concil Tax, but they said there was no proceedure for him to pay, so he payed nothing despite attmpting to pay!!

 

He found out he was not eligible. I wouldn't have bothered even enquiring. When bills are handed to me, I pay. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Second/holiday homes do, at an increased rate in some areas.

 

If it's a floating cottage in the same area there's an argument to be made in favour.

 

Combined with the above inflation licence fee hikes coming towards us I can foresee a sudden glut of boats on the market!

By the same token, you could suggest adding a levy to the vehicle exise duty on all motorhomes, and introduce a licence for all caravans. 

31 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One could argue that the basic principle is that if you opt out of the system then you don't get looked after by the system.

 

Save the taxes and spend the money on coal. Council tax can be a grand a year. You'd have to have a pretty big boat to need that much to pay for your heating and electric. 

 

 

Council is very rarely as low as a grand a year.

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2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Local Authorities where property is expensive end up with more revenue coming through council tax than do areas with cheap housing.  I'm not sure who would think that areas with expensive housing would need more money going to that council, when the evidence points to the opposite being true.

I don't think that I the case. The government assesses how much Council Tax each local authority can raise, based on the type and mix of property in the council area, and adjusts the central government payment to compensate.

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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've never seen why one shouldn't try to get the best of all worlds!

Boaters don't pay council tax, but they also don't have the security that bricks and mortar give, and I would suggest that cancels out the financial advantage.  There are plenty of people living in bricks and mortar who have no security of tenure.  We have other expenses householders don't have. Logically, council tax should be scrapped and replaced with a local income tax this has the same issue as council tax, namely that low income areas end up with impoverished councils. - it no longer performs its original function of funding councils which rely increasingly on central government. Exactly my earlier point, which is why councils should be funded by central government via income tax.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I don't think that I the case. The government assesses how much Council Tax each local authority can raise, based on the type and mix of property in the council area, and adjusts the central government payment to compensate.

Which is what I pointed to later in my post.  It's basically an admission by government that the principle of council tax is unfair.  If central government needs to step in now to try and level the playing field, you might as well have central government grants replacing all of the council tax revenue and funding that from income tax.

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25 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

By the same token, you could suggest adding a levy to the vehicle exise duty on all motorhomes, and introduce a licence for all caravans. 

Council is very rarely as low as a grand a year.

I pay £950* a year Council Tax for my inner London residential mooring but nothing for the boat I live on part of the time on the country estate. Both have coal fires I wonder if I can get two allocations of this cost of living help. 

 

The topic is about boats. A residential mooring will likely be on the lowest band. 

 

*Looks like it is £1050 this year. 

 

Edited by magnetman
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1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

And abolish council tax?

 

 

 

Yes, preferably a local income tax coolected at the rate set by the local council. Two council ID letters on the end of the tax code would syffice to show how muchto pay. Then all those earning would pay, not juts a minority.

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Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

Yes, preferably a local income tax coolected at the rate set by the local council. Two council ID letters on the end of the tax code would syffice to show how muchto pay. Then all those earning would pay, not juts a minority.

What would be the advantage of a local income tax over simply adding an extra amount to existing national income tax?

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Just now, doratheexplorer said:

What would be the advantage of a local income tax over simply adding an extra amount to existing national income tax?

 

Makes the local councilors responsible for its level so if enough votesr thiknk it is too high they can vote them out. Juat putting it on general taxation lets the locals off the hook.

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14 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Yes, preferably a local income tax coolected at the rate set by the local council. Two council ID letters on the end of the tax code would syffice to show how muchto pay. Then all those earning would pay, not juts a minority.

 

When I was a young man, we had income tax and NI. Granted, the tax was 33%, but I'm for simplifying, so I prefer higher tax rates and one tax.

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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6 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

When I was young man, we had income tax and NI. Granted, the tax was 33%, but I'm for simplifying, so I prefer higher tax rates and one tax.

 

 

We still do, though NI now is really just an additional income tax that no government dares amalgamate as it would look like they were increasing income tax. A local income tax would give a council a bit of leeway as to how they spent it,  though they'd really still be at the mercy of the government grant - which we have seen this year is often apportioned for political reasons rather than by need (though I suppose the need to get your bloke re-elected is still a need!).

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17 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

  If the ones in the article are paying council tax then they should have no problems claiming it as it should be a residential mooring. But it looks like they can’t claim it, so what moorings are they on, one’s in the town centre, the others say just outside the centre? This is one of the arguments on here, they are probably using services provided by local council without paying Council tax and want the same fuel allowance as people paying Council tax in the town.

 The allowance works out at less then £8 a week, I would say if people need £8 or it makes a massive difference, then how are they going to cope with increases in the future with License and food? I’m not rich but neither poor, but an extra £8 a week would make little difference and if it did I would be living a miserable life on the canal.
  

Just found that article, and am surprised that boaters draw attention to themselves.   Us liveaboards are actually having it quite good, the price increase in diesel, coal and gas is much less than what housedwellers are getting with their electric bills.

There is a whole load of history and grandfathers rights on the Rochdale canal, but its still sometimes good to just maintain a low profile 😀

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1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

We still do, though NI now is really just an additional income tax that no government dares amalgamate as it would look like they were increasing income tax. A local income tax would give a council a bit of leeway as to how they spent it,  though they'd really still be at the mercy of the government grant - which we have seen this year is often apportioned for political reasons rather than by need (though I suppose the need to get your bloke re-elected is still a need!).

 

No sure whose bloke you're speaking of. I think we have enough points of taxation flying around. All new tax initiatives should come with the abolition of at least one other. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, magnetman said:

One could argue that the basic principle is that if you opt out of the system then you don't get looked after by the system.

 

Save the taxes and spend the money on coal. Council tax can be a grand a year. You'd have to have a pretty big boat to need that much to pay for your heating and electric. 

 

 

Your behind the times, band A here in the Fens is £1477.19. Anyone hanging around on the towpath in Hebden Bridge and not paying council tax are £1,311.78 better off. In a effect they have had the rebate more than twice.  

Edited by nbfiresprite
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3 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

Your behind the times, band A here in the Fens is £1477.19. Anyone hanging around on the towpath in Hebden Bridge and not paying council tax are £1,311.78 better off. In a effect they have had the rebate more than twice.  

Oh well.

 

Never mind.

 

My mooring is band A and in Tower Hamlets in London. I imagine they are behind the times as well. 

 

 

 

IMG_20230306_161011.jpg.830c1d9c0b12ea176a89ca119953f709.jpg

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7 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

Your behind the times, band A here in the Fens is £1477.19. Anyone hanging around on the towpath in Hebden Bridge and not paying council tax are £1,311.78 better off. In a effect they have had the rebate more than twice.  

 

Not for someone that isn't liable for CT. They simply haven't been liable for CT. If they haven't had a fuel rebate, they haven't had a fuel rebate. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

Not for someone that isn't liable for CT. They simply haven't been liable for CT. If they haven't had a fuel rebate, they haven't had a fuel rebate. 

 

 

 

He meant that the saving achieved by not paying council tax was more than twice the value of the "cost of living" payment. 

 

Out of interest do you think it would be appropriate if nobody paid any council tax? 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

He meant that the saving achieved by not paying council tax was more than twice the value of the "cost of living" payment. 

 

Out of interest do you think it would be appropriate if nobody paid any council tax? 

 

 

 

There are no savings to be made, if you were never liable to pay CT. The payment doesn't exist, to be classed as a saving. Do people that drive cars ride around thinking pedestrians should also pay the bills they have to pay? 

 

I'm sure councils need financing. I finance, in my own limited way, CRT.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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3 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

There are no savings to be made, if you were never liable to pay CT. The payment doesn't exist, to be classed as a saving. Do people that drive cars ride around thinking pedestrians should also pay the bills they have to pay? 

 

That is silly.

Infrastructure for use by road vehicles is not funded by car drivers.

 

Why do you think someone is not liable for council tax ? Are you referring to someone who never uses a NHS doctor or a public footpath?

 

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10 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Not for someone that isn't liable for CT. They simply haven't been liable for CT. If they haven't had a fuel rebate, they haven't had a fuel rebate. 

 

 


 

They’re better off (by virtue of being not liable for CT) than if they were.

 

Very very few residences are not liable to CT or claim some kind of exemption, in effect those are already better off and have been for years. Whether they realised this and managed their finances, or simply spent the difference on something else, is the issue they have for themselves.

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If you mean there is no mechanism for applying council tax to itinerant people then that is just a loophole. Most people will recognise when they are benefiting from a loophole. These have a tendency to be closed.

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1 minute ago, Paul C said:


 

They’re better off (by virtue of being not liable for CT) than if they were.

 

Very very few residences are not liable to CT or claim some kind of exemption, in effect those are already better off and have been for years. Whether they realised this and managed their finances, or simply spent the difference on something else, is the issue they have for themselves.

 

Whether they are better off or not is neither here not there. They are not liable for council tax. Lots of people are better or worse off, depending on their circumstances. 

 

 

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