Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.

[nbfiresprite]

31 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'm fascinated to find out how I might get the grant in my hovel. I'm bemused as to how anyone in authority will know I have oil heating.

 

I buy a tankful of oil two or three times a year from whichever supplier is cheapest on the day, so how on earth will anyone handing out the grants know I do this, even though I have the residential address you mention. 

 

 

 

 

The national grid gas main database, lists every address with a gas main connection, As long your on the council tax database, you should get it.

[Paul C]

6 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

 

That's where it will prove interesting in my case as it will with others in my marina, as planning list my mooring as non-residential, yet Council tax is charged on it.

 

Council tax liability and PP residential status aren't the same thing, not the same department at the Council etc. Whilst it might seem logical they are directly linked, its not the way local government works. Hence, you might find yourself in the situation of being liable for CT but not receiving the grant. 

[Momac]

Can a business that runs a caravan park ,park home site or marina claim a subsidy on electricity?

If so should this saving be passed on to customers?

[Alan de Enfield]

33 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Can a business that runs a caravan park ,park home site or marina claim a subsidy on electricity?

If so should this saving be passed on to customers?

 

No (well we are told we cannot) 

Businesses do not get the 'energy support' or 'energy price cap' that an individual gets.

 

We will get it for our domestic usage as we pay CT on the 'main residence'. The caravan park is on a seperate meter / account. and doen't pay CT it just pays 'Rates'. (Based on the rateable value of the park).

[nbfiresprite]

Had a call this morning from a old friend who moved last year from Foxes to Riverside Island Marina on the River Lark, which is just in West Suffolk by a few feet. The only info he had to supply was Name, Address, Phone Number, Email, Council Tax Ref No and Bank details. He let me know if the application is aproved by the Anglian Revenues Partnership.

[wandering snail]

17 hours ago, Ewan123 said:

Oh great. Boats on a continuous crossing licence are specifically excluded. I wonder whether that's the end or there might just be another route for us? I presume that's overly optimistic.

 

https://www.gov.uk/apply-energy-bill-support-if-not-automatic

 

 

Maybe the Alternative Fuel Payment will be different...

But there's no such thing as a 'continuous cruising' boat licence. I've had a look at the form to apply on. There's a tick box for boaters but the next page gives a choice of two types of boat licence which also don't exist, a 'Permanent residential mooring licence' and a 'Continuous cruising licence' so boaters won't be able to proceed from there. This will impact on boaters on the Llangollen, who do come under a pilot area from applying.

[Paul C]

1 minute ago, wandering snail said:

But there's no such thing as a 'continuous cruising' boat licence. I've had a look at the form to apply on. There's a tick box for boaters but the next page gives a choice of two types of boat licence which also don't exist, a 'Permanent residential mooring licence' and a 'Continuous cruising licence' so boaters won't be able to proceed from there. This will impact on boaters on the Llangollen, who do come under a pilot area from applying.

 

There is, but its based on an interpretation, not the black & white of what's printed on the forms.

[Cheese]

13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

According to the emails received from my oil suppliers I don't need to claim.

 

The government checks every house / dwelling / Hovel that has an electricty account and checks to see if that post code is within an area where mains gas is available. If it is not available then you automaticcaly get the grant.

 

You only need make an application if you are one of the 'non-standard' users (residential caravan, or boat on a residential site/mooring, or someone who has neither 'mains electricity or mains gas')

Not sure it's quite as simple.  Aged parent has a property with no mains gas, but no oil either, just electric storage heaters. On your logic she would automatically get the new grant.  But she is already receiving the £400 rebate from her electricity supplier, so I don't think she is eligible for this new one as well.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Not sure it's quite as simple.  Aged parent has a property with no mains gas, but no oil either, just electric storage heaters. On your logic she would automatically get the new grant.  But she is already receiving the £400 rebate from her electricity supplier, so I don't think she is eligible for this new one as well.

 

I could be totally wrong, but, my understanding is that they are two very different grants.

 

There is the 1st grant that is to help set against the huge increases in the cost of electricity and have also introduced the price -cap.

This latest one is for users of oil or bottled gas who do not have a potential mains gas supply so are at the 'whim' of the oil & gas uppliers where there is no price cap.

 

I have had my £400 in staged payments and now think I'm due to the £200 grant for using oil

 

How do I get the £400 energy grant?

The way you receive the grant will depend on how you pay for your energy:  

• Direct debit and standard credit customers paying either monthly or quarterly will automatically have the money credited to their account by their supplier
• 'Smart' pre-payment meter users will also see the grant automatically added to their account
• Those using traditional or 'non-smart' pre-payment devices will instead receive a discount voucher in the first week of each month, either via text, email or in the post. Homeowners will then need to redeem these in person at their usual top-up point.  

 

 

What if I live off-grid or use heating oil?

Prior to the government's update(opens in new tab) on the Energy Bills Support Scheme in December, it had already been confirmed that households using heating oil or biomass boilers will receive £200 as part of the Energy Bills Support Scheme. We know now that this will be paid in February.

The government has also confirmed that around 900,000 off-grid households without a direct relationship to a domestic energy supplier, including many care home residents and those living in park homes, will be able to apply online for an additional £400 under an Alternative Fuel Payment (AFP).

 

The £400 energy grant: How much you'll receive in February before the scheme ends | Homebuilding

[Lady M]

As someone else who is not on the gas grid but mainly (and expensively) uses electricity for heating, I certainly hope to qualify for the extra £200.

[wandering snail]

44 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

There is, but its based on an interpretation, not the black & white of what's printed on the forms.

I've just checked on CRT's website and there is only one boat licence, as per the Waterways Act. I know CRT keep wording it to somehow imply that there's two different ones.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

I've just checked on CRT's website and there is only one boat licence, as per the Waterways Act. I know CRT keep wording it to somehow imply that there's two different ones.

 

 

 

And yet in their own documentation ....................................

 

 

GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR BOAT LICENCES (EXCLUDING BUSINESS LICENCES)

Introduction In accordance with s.43(3) of the Transport Act 1962, boat licences are subject to the conditions which apply to the Use of a boat on any Waterway which We own or manage. These are necessary to protect third parties and to help Us manage the Waterways well for the benefit of all Our users. If You breach any of these Conditions the Trust can terminate Your Licence, which may result in the removal of Your boat from Our Waterways. Charges for boat licences are an important contribution to the cost of maintaining and improving the waterway network. Our powers to charge for and manage the use of the Waterways come from a series of Acts of Parliament. All boats must have the right type of licence for the planned use of the boat. We use Our statutory powers to remove boats from the waterways that are not correctly licenced.

 

Types of Licences The following types of licence can be applied for.

These Conditions (including any Schedules) below apply to these options:

 

• A Pleasure Boat Licence (“standard boat licence”) for either 3, 6 or 12 months is required to navigate on Our Canals & Rivers. You will need a home mooring for Your boat for this licence type.

 

• A Rivers Only Licence is valid for ‘River Waterways’. These are defined in Schedule 1 of the British Waterways Act 1971, as amended. A Rivers Only Licence constitutes a “pleasure boat certificate” for the purposes of the Act.

 

• A Continuous Cruising licence does not need Your boat to have a home mooring. This licence is either for 6 or 12 months and You’ll have to follow Our ‘Guidance for Boaters Without a Home Mooring’.

 

 

 

And they incorrectly keep calling the Rivers Only Registration a 'licence' just so they can charge 20% VAT when a 'registration is rated at Zero VAT.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[wandering snail]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

And yet in their own documentation ....................................

 

 

GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR BOAT LICENCES (EXCLUDING BUSINESS LICENCES)

Introduction In accordance with s.43(3) of the Transport Act 1962, boat licences are subject to the conditions which apply to the Use of a boat on any Waterway which We own or manage. These are necessary to protect third parties and to help Us manage the Waterways well for the benefit of all Our users. If You breach any of these Conditions the Trust can terminate Your Licence, which may result in the removal of Your boat from Our Waterways. Charges for boat licences are an important contribution to the cost of maintaining and improving the waterway network. Our powers to charge for and manage the use of the Waterways come from a series of Acts of Parliament. All boats must have the right type of licence for the planned use of the boat. We use Our statutory powers to remove boats from the waterways that are not correctly licenced.

 

Types of Licences The following types of licence can be applied for.

These Conditions (including any Schedules) below apply to these options:

 

• A Pleasure Boat Licence (“standard boat licence”) for either 3, 6 or 12 months is required to navigate on Our Canals & Rivers. You will need a home mooring for Your boat for this licence type.

 

• A Rivers Only Licence is valid for ‘River Waterways’. These are defined in Schedule 1 of the British Waterways Act 1971, as amended. A Rivers Only Licence constitutes a “pleasure boat certificate” for the purposes of the Act.

 

• A Continuous Cruising licence does not need Your boat to have a home mooring. This licence is either for 6 or 12 months and You’ll have to follow Our ‘Guidance for Boaters Without a Home Mooring’.

 

 

 

And they incorrectly keep calling the Rivers Only Registration a 'licence' just so they can charge 20% VAT when a 'registration is rated at Zero VAT.

Disingenuous to say the least, there is only one boat licence but, like a lot of things at the moment, state it enough times and it becomes the accepted reality.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

Disingenuous to say the least, there is only one boat licence but, like a lot of things at the moment, state it enough times and it becomes the accepted reality.

 

 

It should just take someone  to call C&RT and say "I'm trying to apply for a CC licence  but cannot find the form - can you tell me where it is ?"

 

And when told, there is no separate form & just use the 'Pleasure Boat Licence form' you can say "but your terms and conditions say there is a CC licence, and then you go onto say All boats must have the right type of licence for the planned use of the boat, & you use your statutory powers to remove boats from the waterways that are not correctly licenced. How do I get correctly licenced ?

 

They do repeatedly make themselves look stupid !

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Arthur Marshall]

30 minutes ago, wandering snail said:

Disingenuous to say the least, there is only one boat licence but, like a lot of things at the moment, state it enough times and it becomes the accepted reality.

 

It's because us leisure boaters do it for fun, but CRT know there's no pleasure in being a continuous cruiser.

I suspect it's because they got fed up with being asked stupid questions, so have tried to make it obvious that you need a licence whether you're a hobbyist or living on. Next year there'll be a special licence category for people without a home mooring (ie leisure boaters) but not cruising in any real meaning of the word.

[Momac]

12 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 CRT know there's no pleasure in being a continuous cruiser.

Do they know that?

Are there no continuous cruisers who enjoy the experience?

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's because us leisure boaters do it for fun, but CRT know there's no pleasure in being a continuous cruiser.

I suspect it's because they got fed up with being asked stupid questions, so have tried to make it obvious that you need a licence whether you're a hobbyist or living on. Next year there'll be a special licence category for people without a home mooring (ie leisure boaters) but not cruising in any real meaning of the word.

 

 

Are you saying that CCers can only be liveaboards and liveaboards can only be CCers ?

[Paul C]

1 hour ago, wandering snail said:

I've just checked on CRT's website and there is only one boat licence, as per the Waterways Act. I know CRT keep wording it to somehow imply that there's two different ones.

 

 

I'm not your audience. Its a pretty boring cul-de-sac of discussion, all told. 

[nbfiresprite]

2 hours ago, wandering snail said:

But there's no such thing as a 'continuous cruising' boat licence. I've had a look at the form to apply on. There's a tick box for boaters but the next page gives a choice of two types of boat licence which also don't exist, a 'Permanent residential mooring licence' and a 'Continuous cruising licence' so boaters won't be able to proceed from there. This will impact on boaters on the Llangollen, who do come under a pilot area from applying.

 

Permanent residential mooring licence does exist on CRT, EA and the MLC, under different names and rules. Other waterways may also have them. Many harbours and marinas around the coast may also have residential mooring permits.

 

CRT (In the FAQ, no price listed)

Houseboat certificates are only issued for boats where the houseboat certificate and the mooring agreement run at the same time and have the same expiry date.

Houseboat means a boat not mainly used for navigation and which has planning permission for the site where it is moored, if needed.

Houseboat certificates are generally linked to a particular waterside moorings long term mooring permit and carry with them a limited right of assignment of the mooring permit.

 

EA (50% off Licence)

 

“Houseboat” means any type of private domestic or commercial space, whether used for accommodation or not, built within or upon a navigable hull originally intended to be towed by a tug, whether or not it is still towed or is permanently moored (including a converted dumb barge, lighter or butty), or any type of private domestic or commercial space, whether used for accommodation or not, built within or upon a navigable hull but either not originally fitted with a means of propulsion or with the means of propulsion removed or permanently disabled (including a Dutch barge, Humber Keel barge, wide beam or narrowboat).

 

Middle Level (£124 (22/23))

 

When the Middle Level Act of 2018 was passed an undertaking was given that the annual level of charges for a vessel that is used as a dwelling for any year in which that vessel does not use any of the waterways in the Middle Level but remains in a marina adjacent to one of those waterways. For administering the application for registration, checking that the vessel complies with any relevant requirements imposed under any byelaws made under section 12; and enforcing compliance with those requirements. A copy of the Council Tax bill as evidence that the vessel is used as a permanent residence.

 

 

[nbfiresprite]

9 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

Council tax liability and PP residential status aren't the same thing, not the same department at the Council etc. Whilst it might seem logical they are directly linked, its not the way local government works. Hence, you might find yourself in the situation of being liable for CT but not receiving the grant. 

 

Using the planning permission as a method to process application would be more than problematic, in view that anything built before the The Town and Country Planning Act 1932 introduced the concept of 'Planning Permission' into British legal history, would not have planning permission. Plus that records before 1990 (Average date for the introduction of PC's in councils) will only be on paper. Long process searching through boxes and boxes of records. Hence the used of the council tax database to process applications.

[Paul C]

On 22/12/2022 at 11:20, MartynG said:

 

Thought for the day: does the NBTA membership and the wider group of CCers and liveaboards with a mooring, have confidence in NBTA that their approach of "intensive discussions.......to ensure [they] will be included" is the right approach? And if not, what next?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

34 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Thought for the day: does the NBTA membership and the wider group of CCers and liveaboards with a mooring, have confidence in NBTA that their approach of "intensive discussions.......to ensure [they] will be included" is the right approach? And if not, what next?

Yes , yes, and yes again ✊

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

12 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Yes , yes, and yes again ✊

 

 

 

it does of course depend on your view of the 1932 planning application whether you can get a grant in 2023,

what a cock!!

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Goliath

[Paul C]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

 

it does of course depend on your view of the 1932 planning application whether you can get a grant in 2023,

what a cock!!

 

there realty are some twits about that’d rather see some one go cold this winter

 

That's very random, you've lost me now....you quoted your own post which was in itself, hard to understand because it replied to one question with 3 answers. 1932 planning application???

 

I don't think anyone is arguing against that it would be fair that everyone receives some additional help for additional energy costs. Its just that, we're back at square 1, "how?". And possibly the follow-on question, "how much for a boater, given their space is much smaller than an average house but their fuel costs may differ significantly to on-grid gas and electricity?".

 

NBTA made a bold promise, which we needed to wait until now to see if it came to fruition or not. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

That's very random, you've lost me now....you quoted your own post which was in itself, hard to understand because it replied to one question with 3 answers. 1932 planning application???

 

I don't think anyone is arguing against that it would be fair that everyone receives some additional help for additional energy costs. Its just that, we're back at square 1, "how?". And possibly the follow-on question, "how much for a boater, given their space is much smaller than an average house but their fuel costs may differ significantly to on-grid gas and electricity?".

 

NBTA made a bold promise, which we needed to wait until now to see if it came to fruition or not. 

Yes looking back it seemed to look random: Quoting myself. 
 

To clarify Yes 👍 I continue  to support the NBTA 

 

and introducing a  1932 planning permission Act into the discussion ? 
is cock

 

sorry, but it don’t help