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Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.


Alway Swilby

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21 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Well all I can say is that Kerosene (heating oil) prices are at the highest I've seen them in 20 years.

 

These are the actual prices (pence per litre exc VAT) I have paid for deliveries of 1500 litres.

 

June '05 = 34.95 ppl

May '06 = 36.20

Nov '07 = 39.00

Feb '08 = 40.40

July '08 = 58.45

June '09 = 37.08

May '10 = 44.43

 

March '13 = 59.00

Feb '14 = 53.50

Oct '15 = 31.60

Jan '16 = 23.90

April '16 = 27.25

Dec '16 = 37.50

Feb '17 = 38.63

Oct '17 = 38.23

 

No '19 = 44.20

Feb '20 = 40.11

Feb '21 = 38.45

Oct '21 = 51.90

June '22 = 95.46

Jan '23 = 82.50

 

These are Boilerjuice's UK average price (including 5% VAT) for the last 4 years. The impact of the Ukraine invasion is clear to see.

Capture.PNG.8a833b448161f8a06e3d1ea263429994.PNG

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1 hour ago, Lady C said:

I still find it hard to believe that any boater is spending the average £2.5k pa on heating, cooking & lighting. 


I find it hard to believe the average householder is spending that too. 

Especially on a vacant second property. 
Maybe the gluttons for electricity should readdress their needs and not be so free and easy with their use. 

 

…in my day, we switched lights off behind us and heating was restricted to the front room where we all sat and watched the same shit TV with shit programmes until the BBC switched off at midnight and told us to go bed. 

..anyway. 

Most agree there’s a group of people who are not getting any hand out from the state but ought to get something towards their energy bill. 
 

 

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39 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Not all CCs are live aboards, not all live aboards are CCs

Yep, that’s been clearly established.

 

I think the conversation is now about, do they use a simplified criteria which also encompasses leisure boaters (an analogy can be drawn with 2nd home owners), or is some robust and more focused way to ensure those who need the money, get it, at the same time reducing the amount of claimants who don’t need it so much.

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6 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Yep, that’s been clearly established.

 

I think the conversation is now about, do they use a simplified criteria which also encompasses leisure boaters (an analogy can be drawn with 2nd home owners), or is some robust and more focused way to ensure those who need the money, get it, at the same time reducing the amount of claimants who don’t need it so much.

Leisure boaters can't be equated with second home owners. We're like holiday caravanners. Continuous cruisers who don't live on board are the ones analagous with second home owners, which is why only CRT can tell the difference.

 

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30 minutes ago, Goliath said:


I find it hard to believe the average householder is spending that too. 

Especially on a vacant second property. 
Maybe the gluttons for electricity should readdress their needs and not be so free and easy with their use. 

 

…in my day, we switched lights off behind us and heating was restricted to the front room where we all sat and watched the same shit TV with shit programmes until the BBC switched off at midnight and told us to go bed. 

..anyway. 

Most agree there’s a group of people who are not getting any hand out from the state but ought to get something towards their energy bill. 
 

 

 

I agree that those living off-grid should be getting something but in my view the £200 off grid payment would be more appropriate than the full £600.  Also a smaller amount could attract less concern about scams.  It costs well over the average £2.5k to run my home and it isn't actually very warm a lot of the time.

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44 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Leisure boaters can't be equated with second home owners. We're like holiday caravanners. Continuous cruisers who don't live on board are the ones analagous with second home owners, which is why only CRT can tell the difference.

 

How do CRT distinguish between liveaboard CCers and non liveaboard CCers?

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45 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Leisure boaters can't be equated with second home owners. We're like holiday caravanners. Continuous cruisers who don't live on board are the ones analagous with second home owners, which is why only CRT can tell the difference.

 

But how do CRT know if CCs are live aboards?

 

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5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But how do CRT know if CCs are live aboards?

 

 

They don't. They only know which licence holders have a home mooring and those that do not.

 

Not having a home mooring doesn't necessarily equate to living aboard.

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I believe that the CRT do actually know 'more or less' which cc boats are lived on and which aren't.

 

No proof of this but it seems enormously probable that the data collectors will not only be logging index number and location. Presumably there is a 'does the boat look occupied' tick box.

 

This is all supposition but it would be so easy to implement and it is relevant data at the end of the day.

 

Having said that a boat could 'look lived on' but not actually be a primary residence.

 

There are certain clues that can indicate to an observant person whether a boat is used as a primary residence.

Edited by magnetman
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7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I believe that the CRT do actually know 'more or less' which cc boats are lived on and which aren't

I'm sure they have a good idea about some boats without a home mooring. But that's a long way from knowing about all such boats sufficiently to form the basis of grants to eligible boaters. 

And I'm also pretty sure that CRT want nothing to do with any such scheme. It's an administrative burden they aren't funded to carry out and has lots of potential to (further) damage relations between CRT and boaters.

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Just now, David Mack said:

And I'm also pretty sure that CRT want nothing to do with any such scheme. It's an administrative burden they aren't funded to carry out and has lots of potential to (further) damage relations between CRT and boaters.

 

Definitely.

 

Same as GP's which has been suggested.

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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

How do CRT distinguish between liveaboard CCers and non liveaboard CCers?

 

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

They can’t.

 

58 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

They don't. They only know which licence holders have a home mooring and those that do not.

 

Not having a home mooring doesn't necessarily equate to living aboard.

If you got round to reading what I said instead of endlessly picking on the same thing, let's try again.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

You need a circle that includes ALL liveaboards who don't have a home mooring. All of them will be registered with CRT as not having a home mooring, ie being CC. That sorts that out. Simple, see?

It's just the same as everyone with a house and an electricty bill getting the money. Some, because they have two houses, get it twice. Some boaters, because they have a house and a boat but no mooring, get it twice. See? Hoorah. IT DOESN'T MATTER.

It is impossible, as we have established weeks ago, to identify genuine liveaboards from other CCers, who shall be referred to as dumpers, due to possible deficiencies in various Acts and the fact that neither BW nor CRT have thought it worthwhile, though they might pretty soon. What we don't want, because it would not be allowed, is everyone with a house and a boat they might only visit once a year to get it. All you want to do is make sure everyone who lives on without a mooring gets it, and everyone in a legal residential mooring gets it. It doesn't matter if a  few freeloaders get a bonus dollop.

You find me another way to do it, without it costing more to run than it pays out. Alan's suggestion of all CCers getting 600 quid knocked off their licence would work just as well.

 

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I'm sure they have a good idea about some boats without a home mooring. But that's a long way from knowing about all such boats sufficiently to form the basis of grants to eligible boaters. 

And I'm also pretty sure that CRT want nothing to do with any such scheme. It's an administrative burden they aren't funded to carry out and has lots of potential to (further) damage relations between CRT and boaters.

Councils don't want to do it either. Why should CRT be any different?

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I've got a residential mooring where I pay council tax but it is a boat and no it is not at all expensive to heat and I use next to no electricity so why claim?

 

This seems to be an opportunity to get a free cordless chainsaw or some beer.

Own no land or property. I do have a second boat which for all intense purposes I live on.

Can I get two cordless chainsaws out of this?

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2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 

 

If you got round to reading what I said instead of endlessly picking on the same thing, let's try again.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

 

 

Calm down dear I actually didn't read your post, I was responding to someone else.

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If dumpers get it, those with a leisure mooring should get it too, their use of the boat is the same. If you exclude moored, you have excluded liveaboards on leisure moorings - many of which are doing so compliantly, because they spend enough time away from the mooring to satisfy the mooring provider’s rules in that aspect.

 

In reality, it was addressed about 10 pages ago - link it to CT. If it’s deemed too much of an administrative burden to collect CT, then the same applies for the grant. Instead of saving (say) £1000 by not paying CT, they are saving (say) £600. (The figures are obviously plucked from the air as a rough guess).

Edited by Paul C
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It does seem rather ridiculous to pay it to people who don't pay local community tax. They have chosen to be outside of the system in order to save money every year so why should the system then support them?

 

Odd one really. Surely the saved money has been kept somewhere sensible for just this sort of situation.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It does seem rather ridiculous to pay it to people who don't pay local community tax. They have chosen to be outside of the system in order to save money every year so why should the system then support them?

 

Odd one really. Surely the saved money has been kept somewhere sensible for just this sort of situation.

 

 


because it’s got nowt to do with Council Tax 🥱

 

....and around we go again

 

That’s it, I’m grabbing my coat and going pub.

At least I found my coolant leak today, something positive done.

Time for a beer or two 🍺🍺

 

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58 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It does seem rather ridiculous to pay it to people who don't pay local community tax. They have chosen to be outside of the system in order to save money every year so why should the system then support them?

 

Odd one really. Surely the saved money has been kept somewhere sensible for just this sort of situation.

 

 

I have certainly kept the money I have saved in a bank account for the last 24 years. I was pleasantly surprised to notice the other day that the nice people at the bank have doubled my interest rate to 0.02%.Not only that, but as an added bonus, inflation has made it worth half of what it was. I think you'll agree, that was pretty shrewd planning on my part. 

 

I can't accept all the glory though, today in the newspaper I see I have had rather a good turn of luck as our new PM has decided that I need to work yet another extra year, to 68 before claiming my state pittance. 

 

I think you'll agree, good planning and lady luck have stood me in good stead. 

 

Right, I'm off to chuck another bag of 50's on the Woodburner. 

 

Cheerio. 

Edited by rusty69
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Of course I do get a warm glow inside knowing that my retirement age is probably being extended to pay for the fuel subsidies of house dwellers, so I don't actually need it myself. 

 

Fortunately a pal of mine has told me about something called 'bit coin'. I intend to heavily invest in these, and when the price increases and my pile of 50's  has depleted, I shall start burning them instead. 

 

I do feel somewhat fortunate though, knowing that I will never likely be able to afford to get on the property ladder. Moving onto a boat just before house prices increased by 400% was certainly a lucky move on my part, and the subsequent influx of youngsters moving onto the inland waterways must feel equally blessed.

Edited by rusty69
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50 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Of course I do get a warm glow inside knowing that my retirement age is probably being extended to pay for the fuel subsidies of house dwellers, so I don't actually need it myself. 

 

Fortunately a pal of mine has told me about something called 'bit coin'. I intend to heavily invest in these, and when the price increases and my pile of 50's  has depleted, I shall start burning them instead. 

 

I do feel somewhat fortunate though, knowing that I will never likely be able to afford to get on the property ladder. Moving onto a boat just before house prices increased by 400% was certainly a lucky move on my part, and the subsequent influx of youngsters moving onto the inland waterways must feel equally blessed.

If I had invested my hard earned legacy in a house 30 yars ago I would now have a 2 million pound house. All I have is 2 boats and no money. 

 

And you feel hard done by?

And a council tax bill, and rent, no job and children. 

How the mighty have fallen 🤣

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2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

And you feel hard done by?

 

No, of course not. My pal in the city tells me these 'bit coin' things are a dead cert. I intend to put ALL of my money on them. He tells me that within a year I will have enough of the things to put news sides and a new bottom on our boat. He tells me that they can be welded on like washers.

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