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Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.


Alway Swilby

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1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said:

You are the one that is wrong. I contacted both the Peterborough and the Cambridge offices of the VOA, both told me to take the matter up with the council and that they act on the information that is given to them by the council. The Valuation Office Agency is only responsible for banding properties and entering them in the Council Tax list. It is the cpuncil that provide the VOA with the information they need to allocate a band.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/understand-how-council-tax-bands-are-assessed

As you say, it is the VOA that compiles and maintains the domestic list.  The local Council may or may not provide information to assist, but the Listing Officer is appointed by the Commissioners of Inland Revenue.  See S20 and s22 of the Local Government Finance Act 1992 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/14/section/20.  The listing officer must send a copy of the list to the billing authority - not vice versa.

 

If the Council tells the VOA of a new dwelling or a mooring that has (in its view) become liable to be included in the list, it is likely to act upon it.

 

But no way should a hereditament be added to the domestic list just because the occupier does not have a Council Tax bill in its name elsewhere.  There are numerous reasons why this might be the case.  He may be cc'ing or in prison or living in a house where the Council tax is the responsibility of parents or reside overseas or dwell in hotels.

 

Edited by Tacet
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12 minutes ago, Tacet said:

As you say, it is the VOA that compiles and maintains the domestic list.  The local Council may or may not provide information to assist, but the Listing Officer is appointed by the Commissioners of Inland Revenue.  See S20 and s22 of the Local Government Finance Act 1992 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/14/section/20.  The listing officer must send a copy of the list to the billing authority - not vice versa.

 

If the Council tells the VOA of a new dwelling or a mooring that has (in its view) become liable to be included in the list, it is likely to act upon it.

 

But no way should a hereditament be added to the domestic list just because the occupier does not have a Council Tax bill in its name elsewhere.  There are numerous reasons why this might be the case.  He may be cc'ing or in prison or living in a house where the Council tax is the responsibility of parents or reside overseas or dwell in hotels.

 

 

 

From my own experince of opening a (static) caravan park, which, in most of the governments legislation is 'lumped in' with moorings.

 

We had planning permission from the LA, and once it was all complete (water, power, concrete bases, roadways etc the LA came to inspect it was in accordance with the PP, it was, so they issued a licence.

 

A few months later when we had the caravans in place got a knock at the door and it was the VoA (ID card said so anyway) who had come to value the park for Rates / CT.

(Obviously the LA had informed them that a new 'premises' needed valuing)

 

The rateable value was based on the number of beds available (adding together the number in each individual caravan) .

 

This would have been around 2012.

 

We went thru a similar process in 2005 when we had the house built - the VoA visited and gave a value based on similar properties in the area (of which there are non) and we appealed the Band G but lost.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

From my own experince of opening a (static) caravan park, which, in most of the governments legislation is 'lumped in' with moorings.

 

We had planning permission from the LA, and once it was all complete (water, power, concrete bases, roadways etc the LA came to inspect it was in accordance with the PP, it was, so they issued a licence.

 

A few months later when we had the caravans in place got a knock at the door and it was the VoA (ID card said so anyway) who had come to value the park for Rates / CT.

(Obviously the LA had informed them that a new 'premises' needed valuing)

 

The rateable value was based on the number of beds available (adding together the number in each individual caravan) .

 

This would have been around 2012.

 

We went thru a similar process in 2005 when we had the house built - the VoA visited and gave a value based on similar properties in the area (of which there are non) and we appealed the Band G but lost.

If your caravan park is domestic (residential use) it would be assessed for Council Tax based on its capital value.

 

If it appears in the non-domestic list it has an RV based on its rental value and a rate per bed or per caravan will be a starting point.  The VOA is very keen to maintain the tone of the list and avoid anomalies.  Beacon properties are established and valuations tend to relate to these, rather than risk creeping errors.

 

In the mid 1990s, I worked for a large property consultancy with a contract from the VOA to reassess the appealed properties in the Council Tax list.  This involved a full-ish inspection and a reasonable fee.

 

A friend of mine was engaged in establishing the values for the original list.  There was then a tough depression and the rates were about £5 per dwelling in urban areas.  External inspections were undertaken - he reckons on foot rather than using 2nd gear in a car.  But I know he is a keen cyclist.....

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Whatever you think of the NBTA they seem to be doing a lot of the running on this....heres the latest update from them...Pity the RBOA and indeed CRT aren't as proactive I think.

 

https://www.bargee-traveller.org.uk/energy-bill-support-scheme-grants-interim-update/

 

Its going to be a bit drawn out by the looks of it but slightly more hopeful.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, frangar said:

Whatever you think of the NBTA they seem to be doing a lot of the running on this....heres the latest update from them...Pity the RBOA and indeed CRT aren't as proactive I think.

 

https://www.bargee-traveller.org.uk/energy-bill-support-scheme-grants-interim-update/

 

Its going to be a bit drawn out by the looks of it but slightly more hopeful.

 

 

Hoping any itinerant boaters in those areas will respond, showing there is a need and the problems with accessing the grants.

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34 minutes ago, frangar said:

Whatever you think of the NBTA they seem to be doing a lot of the running on this....heres the latest update from them...Pity the RBOA and indeed CRT aren't as proactive I think.

 

https://www.bargee-traveller.org.uk/energy-bill-support-scheme-grants-interim-update/

 

Its going to be a bit drawn out by the looks of it but slightly more hopeful.

 

 


yes, I’ve been following this too and it does seem very long winded. 
But possibly more hopeful. 
 

I was also see there’s a possibility of claiming for both the £400 and the £200. 

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On 11/01/2023 at 21:56, Goliath said:

Why would a marina ask for evidence of a Council Tax bill?

 

I blame LadyG for this wholly unnecessary talk about Council Tax.

She started it

🤓

Recollections may vary.

I've been looking at the Gov.uk website, then briefly at TB, where I linked to the NBTA site, where I found the latest info, dated 19jan 2023, it was unbiased, as far as I can see, so I've joined. 

Edited by LadyG
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1 hour ago, Goliath said:

Maybe small scale as a tester?

🤷‍♀️
To see if it’s workable. 

 

 

It has to be workable, or what do they say ...... "the majority of claimants failed our test, bad luck"

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9 hours ago, frangar said:

Whatever you think of the NBTA they seem to be doing a lot of the running on this....heres the latest update from them...Pity the RBOA and indeed CRT aren't as proactive I think.

 

https://www.bargee-traveller.org.uk/energy-bill-support-scheme-grants-interim-update/

 

Its going to be a bit drawn out by the looks of it but slightly more hopeful.

 

 

 

Firstly - are there any canals/rivers (run by CRT), or CCers in the 4 trial areas? I am not sure there are

Secondly - I know they say in motor racing "winning ugly is better than losing pretty" but that doesn't look like a win for NBTA or liveaboard boaters. I think it will only be once the trial is expanded to a much wider area, maybe nationally, then sufficient numbers of CCers eg in the London area can go through the process and report the success or otherwise.

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10 hours ago, frangar said:

Whatever you think of the NBTA they seem to be doing a lot of the running on this....heres the latest update from them...Pity the RBOA and indeed CRT aren't as proactive I think.

 

https://www.bargee-traveller.org.uk/energy-bill-support-scheme-grants-interim-update/

 

Its going to be a bit drawn out by the looks of it but slightly more hopeful.

 

 

Spreading misinformation you mean, People are more prone to believe misinformation when they are emotionally connected to what they are listening to or are reading. Other groups don't keep blowing their own trumpet, instead get on with the job.

I contacted this morning, Leonie Roberts Media Officer, Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy. She tells me that the application portal for the Energy Bills Support Scheme Alternative Funding is due to open by 30th January 2023 , along with a dedicated helpline to assist people without online access. They will be able to fill out a short form on GOV.UK with a few simple details, including their name and address. Much of this data will be verified up-front to reduce burdens on Local Authorities, who will then verify the address and administer the payment. When asked about the trial zones that the NBTA claim. it was the first she had heard of this. You would think the press office would had been informed of this. The next press release is due to go out next week, information like this if true would be important yet the press office was not informed.   

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6 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

Spreading misinformation you mean, People are more prone to believe misinformation when they are emotionally connected to what they are listening to or are reading. Other groups don't keep blowing their own trumpet, instead get on with the job.

I contacted this morning, Leonie Roberts Media Officer, Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy. She tells me that the application portal for the Energy Bills Support Scheme Alternative Funding is due to open by 30th January 2023 , along with a dedicated helpline to assist people without online access. They will be able to fill out a short form on GOV.UK with a few simple details, including their name and address. Much of this data will be verified up-front to reduce burdens on Local Authorities, who will then verify the address and administer the payment. When asked about the trial zones that the NBTA claim. it was the first she had heard of this. You would think the press office would had been informed of this. The next press release is due to go out next week, information like this if true would be important yet the press office was not informed.   

Just “getting on with the job” is less than helpful in this regard. What’s needed are updates even if they say nothing is happening. Radio silence isn’t helpful to anyone. 
 

I am far from the baton twirlers biggest fan but the silence from this matter from all the other boating groups is deafening. They might be jumping the gun etc but at least they are making some noise rather than remaining silent. 
 

If you have any contacts either within govt or boating groups then use it and let people know what’s going on….that way those affected can contact their MP’s etc as they see fit with concise information. 
 

Personally I’m not surprised a press officer doesn’t know what’s going on. They often don’t. Perhaps she needs a wake up call too. 

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10 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

Spreading misinformation you mean, People are more prone to believe misinformation when they are emotionally connected to what they are listening to or are reading. Other groups don't keep blowing their own trumpet, instead get on with the job.

I contacted this morning, Leonie Roberts Media Officer, Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy. She tells me that the application portal for the Energy Bills Support Scheme Alternative Funding is due to open by 30th January 2023 , along with a dedicated helpline to assist people without online access. They will be able to fill out a short form on GOV.UK with a few simple details, including their name and address. Much of this data will be verified up-front to reduce burdens on Local Authorities, who will then verify the address and administer the payment. When asked about the trial zones that the NBTA claim. it was the first she had heard of this. You would think the press office would had been informed of this. The next press release is due to go out next week, information like this if true would be important yet the press office was not informed.   

I honestly think the NBTA update sounds a lot more plausible. The media officer is basically saying "It's all going fine! Don't worry, it'll be really easy and we're doing a great job!" Which, I suppose, is what she's there for. 

 

"They will be able to fill out a short form on GOV.UK with a few simple details" and voila, no problems now or later. Right...

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14 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

I honestly think the NBTA update sounds a lot more plausible. The media officer is basically saying "It's all going fine! Don't worry, it'll be really easy and we're doing a great job!" Which, I suppose, is what she's there for. 

 

"They will be able to fill out a short form on GOV.UK with a few simple details" and voila, no problems now or later. Right...

It sounds like work in progress, which is not surprising. The government don't want to have to check every single claim in forensic detail, but they cant just accept that every Tom Dick or Harriet is eligible, even if living on their boat, or indeed someone else's boat.

Edited by LadyG
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Technically, they don't contradict each other:

 

NBTA

Trial 'this week' (since they said that on Thu 19th Jan, we must deduce 'this week' means either Mon-Sun 16-22 Jan, or they meant next week, 23-29 Jan)

Full nationwide roll-out 'before mid-February' (so......any time 19 Jan - 13 Feb)

 

Press Office

Trial areas not known about, so we must assume national rollout, by 30th Jan ie 20-30 Jan

 

I don't think the trial is significant at all, its such a small area. Hence why it probably wasn't communicated to the press office. The dates for the national rollout are in the same range.

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23 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Getting payments to off-grid people was a topic in today's "Moneybox" on BBC Radio 4 ( to be repeated tomorrow). Apparently the government are still investigating how to do it. Canal-dwellers were not specifically mentioned.   

I’ll have a listen later.

Do they mention off grid itinerants at all?

 

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4 hours ago, Ewan123 said:

"They will be able to fill out a short form on GOV.UK with a few simple details" and voila, no problems now or later. Right...

 

 

And what's the betting the first 'simple detail' to put on the form will turn out to be the address and postcode of the off-grid CCing boat....

 

 

 

 

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