Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.

[Arthur Marshall]

49 minutes ago, IanD said:

That was exactly my point too -- as Goliath said, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

 

Let's hope that the NBTA are correct and not just trying to claim kudos they don't deserve...

 

 

Whether they get what they wanted or not, at least they had a go.

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Whether they get what they wanted or not, at least they had a go.

Currently they are the only ones that try Arthur. 

[nbfiresprite]

2 hours ago, peterboat said:

Currently they are the only ones that try Arthur. 

 

I spoke to the RBOA, RYA and NABO at the Southampton Boat Show in September about the rebate, all three had since June, had been consulted by the Department for Business and Energy on the best way to move forward on.  Getting on with the Job is what these organisations do, they had no need to make a song and dance about what they were doing. Unlike the NBTA who make a song and dance about everything they do. 

 

I'm sure that the NBTA supporters along the canals in London and the lower River Lee, rather the Government sent someone walking down the towpath chucking bundles of notes, no questions asked on to every boat they pass. Many don't want to be on any database, and may well be in hidding. From what? could be anything from owning money to outstanding warrents. They tend to have a psychological need to hide when ever they see anyone in unform. Some through choice don't have a address where post can be sent or have any form of account.

 

Any application will need to be cross checked over a number of databases to prevent fraud and double payment for some will be temped to try. People whose boats are on legal moorings and pay council tax on the mooring should be a quick and simply process.

 

The NBTA claim to speak for all Liveaboards in the UK.  Most Liveaboards are in-fact based on legal moorings in Harbours and river estuary's in Marinas or on swing moorings, far out numbering liveaboards on the canals. Most of the owners of these are either members of the Residential Boat Owners' Association or The Royal Yachting Association or both, Most of them will have never heard of the NBTA.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by nbfiresprite

[peterboat]

8 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

 

I spoke to the RBOA, RYA and NABO at the Southampton Boat Show in September about the rebate, all three had since June, had been consulted by the Department for Business and Energy on the best way to move forward on.  Getting on with the Job is what these organisations do, they had no need to make a song and dance about what they were doing. Unlike the NBTA who make a song and dance about everything they do. 

 

I'm sure that the NBTA supporters along the canals in London and the lower River Lee, rather the Government sent someone walking down the towpath chucking bundles of notes, no questions asked on to every boat they pass. Many don't want to be on any database, and may well be in hidding. From what? could be anything from owning money to outstanding warrents. They tend to have a psychological need to hide when ever they see anyone in unform. Some through choice don't have a address where post can be sent or have any form of account.

 

Any application will need to be cross checked over a number of databases to prevent fraud and double payment for some will be temped to try. People whose boats are on legal moorings and pay council tax on the mooring should be a quick and simply process.

 

The NBTA claim to speak for all Liveaboards in the UK.  Most Liveaboards are in-fact based on legal moorings in Harbours and river estuary's in Marinas or on swing moorings, far out numbering liveaboards on the canals. Most of the owners of these are either members of the Residential Boat Owners' Association or The Royal Yachting Association or both, Most of them will have never heard of the NBTA.

 

 

 

I am a member of RBOA, not seen much about it haven't read the latest magazine though yet. NBTA are making a fuss about it consulting members and other boaters groups on Facebook, they seem to be very proactive in getting the promised money 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I am a member of RBOA, not seen much about it haven't read the latest magazine though yet. NBTA are making a fuss about it consulting members and other boaters groups on Facebook, they seem to be very proactive in getting the promised money 

They're certainly making plenty of noise about it. Whether this noise has actually accomplished anything or just irritated the government (whose documentation still says "houseboats with a registered address" IIRC) remains to be seem...

Edited December 24, 2022 by IanD

[nbfiresprite]

7 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I am a member of RBOA, not seen much about it haven't read the latest magazine though yet. NBTA are making a fuss about it consulting members and other boaters groups on Facebook, they seem to be very proactive in getting the promised money 

 

Very proactive in promoting themselves and making song and dance about everything they claim to do.

 

NBTA are moaning, That CRT spends more money on enforcement than on boaters' facilities on the London waterway, When they and their members are the cause of the need for CRT to spend more on enforcement in the first place. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by nbfiresprite

[Arthur Marshall]

36 minutes ago, IanD said:

They're certainly making plenty of noise about it. Whether this noise has actually accomplished anything or just irritated the government (whose documentation still says "houseboats with a registered address" IIRC) remains to be seem...

If you don't make a noise, you don't get. It's a shame, but it's still true. You can negotiate quietly and sensibly until you're blue in the face but as an awful lot of people appear to have suddenly found out, you just get quietly and sensibly ignored.

Why do you think people write to the consumer pages in the papers? Because without the threat of bad publicity (or any publicity at all) you get nowhere. At least the government is aware there's a problem and is unable to pretend it doesn't know about it.

[IanD]

38 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If you don't make a noise, you don't get. It's a shame, but it's still true. You can negotiate quietly and sensibly until you're blue in the face but as an awful lot of people appear to have suddenly found out, you just get quietly and sensibly ignored.

Why do you think people write to the consumer pages in the papers? Because without the threat of bad publicity (or any publicity at all) you get nowhere. At least the government is aware there's a problem and is unable to pretend it doesn't know about it.

I'm not saying they shouldn't make a noise, as you say that's often the only way to get things done.

 

Whether the noise results in any actual change in the rules as opposed to NBTA press releases remains to be seen...

Edited December 24, 2022 by IanD

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, IanD said:

I'm not saying they shouldn't make a noise, as you say that's often the only way to get things done.

 

Whether the noise results in any actual change in the rules as opposed to NBTA press releases remains to be seen...

There are lots of boaters out there that really need that money Ian, you know that as you possibly see London boaters more often than me? On our moorings we have 3old Moores that are hand to mouth, Carolyn helps them claim what they are entitled to as it's her job for the blind in the real world 

[IanD]

Just now, peterboat said:

There are lots of boaters out there that really need that money Ian, you know that as you possibly see London boaters more often than me? On our moorings we have 3old Moores that are hand to mouth, Carolyn helps them claim what they are entitled to as it's her job for the blind in the real world 

I completely agree that all boaters should get the money, everyone is suffering from high energy costs.

 

The question is will the government make this happen, and if they do will this be due to the NBTA or not?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

13 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

The NBTA claim to speak for all Liveaboards in the UK.  Most Liveaboards are in-fact based on legal moorings in Harbours and river estuary's in Marinas or on swing moorings, far out numbering liveaboards on the canals. Most of the owners of these are either members of the Residential Boat Owners' Association or The Royal Yachting Association or both, Most of them will have never heard of the NBTA.

If we can be clear about one thing, can we be clear that the NBTA are not speaking for all boaters. 
The NBTA are speaking for intinerant boaters. 

They are not a voice for residential boaters they are a voice for boaters without a home mooring. 
 

Neither are they necessarily a voice for all those with a Continuous Cruiser license, because as we know some with a continuous cruiser license might only use their boat for a weekend every fortnight. 
 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Goliath

[Jon57]

3 hours ago, IanD said:

I'm not saying they shouldn't make a noise, as you say that's often the only way to get things done.

 

Whether the noise results in any actual change in the rules as opposed to NBTA press releases remains to be seen...

Better to have tried and failed than never to try in the first place. 

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Goliath said:

The NBTA are speaking for intinerant boaters. 

 

Isn't that an oxymoron ?
The definition of itinerant is "travels from place to place"

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Isn't that an oxymoron ?
The definition of itinerant is "travels from place to place"

Yes, I travel from place to place therefore I am itinerant. 
 

An itinerant travels from place to place, traditionally seeking employment of some sort. 

And here we go again..”NBTA are baton twirlers who don’t move anywhere”

 

To add: for me it’s not an oxymoron 👍

Edited December 24, 2022 by Goliath

[Richard10002]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

Yes, I travel from place to place therefore I am itinerant. 
 

An itinerant travels from place to place, traditionally seeking employment of some sort. 

And here we go again..”NBTA are baton twirlers who don’t move anywhere”

 

I wonder what is the opposite of itinerant? 

[Paul C]

35 minutes ago, Goliath said:

If we can be clear about one thing, can we be clear that the NBTA are not speaking for all boaters. 
The NBTA are speaking for intinerant boaters. 

They are not a voice for residential boaters they are a voice for boaters without a home mooring. 
 

Neither are they necessarily a voice for all those with a Continuous Cruiser license, because as we know some with a continuous cruiser license might only use their boat for a weekend every fortnight. 
 

 

 

So they're a voice for a subset of CCers?

 

Here's a neat solution to the "problem". Why don't NBTA share how they determine those boaters deemed worthy enough to be represented by them, and the government could simply copy & paste it. And voila! A rigorous criteria/determination which is foolproof, to be used for determining the £400 payments.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Paul C

[Arthur Marshall]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Isn't that an oxymoron ?
The definition of itinerant is "travels from place to place"

And a Traveller is someone who travels, except many now don't as where they can travel is limited. Luckily, words can change their meanings.

Whether the NBTA members, if you can call it a membership, actually travel is irrelevant, really, as we all know they should, and none of us know who of them does and who doesn't. As I've said many times, everyone breaks laws and rules, so it's a bit hypocritical to kep pounding one particular section of rulebenders. The baton twirler joke is getting a bit tired.

[Arthur Marshall]

9 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

So they're a voice for a subset of CCers?

Surely they're just a voice? To use the current phrase, you'd self-identify with them, or not. If their argument spills over to help those who don't, so what? They aren't arguing that help should be only available to their members to the exclusion of everyone else. It may be of benefit to those they claim to represent and to others they don't. Sometimes it may backfire and upset some subsets of boaters, but I can't see how anything they do can actually damage people working within both the spirit and the letter of the law.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Arthur Marshall

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

7 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

So they're a voice for a subset of CCers?

I guess for those with a continuous cruising license that consider themselves itinerant.
 

 

13 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

So they're a voice for a subset of CCers?

 

Here's a neat solution to the "problem". Why don't NBTA share how they determine those boaters deemed worthy enough to be represented by them, and the government could simply copy & paste it. And voila! A rigorous criteria/determination which is foolproof, to be used for determining the £400 payments.

from Website;

 

National Bargee Travellers Association

Welcome to the National Bargee Travellers Association

The NBTA seeks to represent the interests of all itinerant live aboard boat dwellers – “Bargee Travellers” – in respect of

• pursuing our way of life
• upholding minority demographic rights
• lobbying at both central government and local government levels
• defending the legal rights of members
• engagement with the local community

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Up to you whether you deem yourself worthy, no obligation to support 👍

[Paul C]

Found it: here's the definition they use:

 

"1.2 “Bargee Traveller” means itinerant boat dweller, boat dweller without a home or permanent mooring, travelling boat dweller, live-aboard continuous cruiser or itinerant live-aboard boater and includes anyone whose home is a boat and who does not have a permanent mooring for their boat with planning permission for year-round residential use."

 

So they welcome (as in, allow to become ordinary members and vote at the AGM) those with a non-residential mooring too, but who deems it their home.

 

I'm all for it, with the caveat that their constitution is somewhat in its early stages of evolution. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

12 minutes ago, Paul C said:

So they welcome (as in, allow to become ordinary members and vote at the AGM) those with a non-residential mooring too, but who deems it their home.

 

..it does looks that way, yep. 

[Arthur Marshall]

49 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Found it: here's the definition they use:

 

"1.2 “Bargee Traveller” means itinerant boat dweller, boat dweller without a home or permanent mooring, travelling boat dweller, live-aboard continuous cruiser or itinerant live-aboard boater and includes anyone whose home is a boat and who does not have a permanent mooring for their boat with planning permission for year-round residential use."

 

So they welcome (as in, allow to become ordinary members and vote at the AGM) those with a non-residential mooring too, but who deems it their home.

 

I'm all for it, with the caveat that their constitution is somewhat in its early stages of evolution. 

Does it have an AGM or a membership as such? I was under the impression it no longer did.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

51 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Found it: here's the definition they use:

 

"1.2 “Bargee Traveller” means itinerant boat dweller, boat dweller without a home or permanent mooring, travelling boat dweller, live-aboard continuous cruiser or itinerant live-aboard boater and includes anyone whose home is a boat and who does not have a permanent mooring for their boat with planning permission for year-round residential use."

 

So they welcome (as in, allow to become ordinary members and vote at the AGM) those with a non-residential mooring too, but who deems it their home.

 

I'm all for it, with the caveat that their constitution is somewhat in its early stages of evolution. 

I think they’ve been going for 11 years or so now. 
 

did you know a good supporter/member of the NBTA has been appointed to CRT’s Council for sometime now?

they have grown over the years and do do some good stuff. 
For instance I like the fact there are regular emails that put supporters in touch with each other to provide help. Perhaps to fix something or deliver something, or give a tow somewhere (yes they do move). 
I was once able to give assistance through this exchange of information. 
They do seem to be a community, unlike other organisations.
I don’t have much to do with them because I haven’t the time to offer and have rarely headed South where they seem mostly active. 

 

2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Does it have an AGM or a membership as such? I was under the impression it no longer did.

they do have AGM’s

 

As far as I am aware there is no formal membership. 
 

You would join by simply providing some basic details including your email address

you then get involved as much (or little) as you want/can. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Goliath

[nbfiresprite]

2 hours ago, Goliath said:

If we can be clear about one thing, can we be clear that the NBTA are not speaking for all boaters. 
The NBTA are speaking for intinerant boaters. 

They are not a voice for residential boaters they are a voice for boaters without a home mooring. 
 

Neither are they necessarily a voice for all those with a Continuous Cruiser license, because as we know some with a continuous cruiser license might only use their boat for a weekend every fortnight. 
 

 

 

They have been claiming so since 2013

 

Their twitter profile clear states that

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by nbfiresprite