Historic boat owner film maker

[IanD]

22 minutes ago, BEngo said:

I understand that it was extremely slow to work and the conventional lock alongside continued to be available, so it was quicker to put a pair of boats through that in sequence than to work the two in parallel, especially in the middle of a group of boats where the steel lock would need to be filled and emptied (or vice versa).

 

The lack of use would seem to be corroborated by the dearth of photos of  boats actually using it.

 

N

 

I have a vague memory of going through it back in the 70s and it being a slow PITA, but I might be imagining this and just saw it -- anyone know when it stopped being used?

[GilesMorris]

26 minutes ago, BEngo said:

I understand that it was extremely slow to work

 

The lack of use would seem to be corroborated by the dearth of photos of  boats actually using it.

 

 

I used it twice (just because). It was slow and had a strange clangy-bendy feel to it.

[John Brightley]

1 hour ago, Kate_MM said:

 

Thank you - a very good pointer! I'll get in touch with them

Kate - I've been in conversation with Mike (Pluto of this forum) and as I know one of the archivists at Warwick Uni I'm going to try to get access to the relevant documents in the archive (permission from UNITE is required to view them). I'm happy to liaise with you but wouldn't want you to duplicate what I'm doing!

[Ray T]

35 minutes ago, IanD said:

I have a vague memory of going through it back in the 70s and it being a slow PITA, but I might be imagining this and just saw it -- anyone know when it stopped being used?

Demolished November 1987.

Article from Waterways World Jan 1988.

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

It may, of course, be another myth, but my understanding is that the design of Thurlwod Steel Lock was very poor, with moving parts effectgivly "built into" the steel structure making maintenance and/or replacement exceedingly difficult, and hence very expensive.

If that's incorrect, I'd love to hear another explanation as to why it fell out of use.

 

As for possible preservation, I  can't imagine the house occupants there were sorry to see it scrapped.  It really was one of the ugliest waterways structure ever, with no aesthetic appeal whatsoever.

 

The first time I came across Thurlwood Steel Lock was in the late 70''s. It was in use then with a board explaining it's very complicated use. We chose to use the standard lock instead.

 

It is something I have regretted ever since, because the next time we passed that way it was out of use and then dismantled in the late 80's.

Edited February 20, 2023 by cuthound
Memory malfunction

[David Mack]

23 hours ago, IanD said:

I have a vague memory of going through it back in the 70s and it being a slow PITA, but I might be imagining this and just saw it -- anyone know when it stopped being used?

I first boated that way in the early 80s. I fully intended to pass through the steel lock, but when we got there it was closed. But we could still walk all around it and see how it worked. I don't think I took any photographs, but the things I remember are the external steel pipe paddle 'culverts' (which looked rather small to my mind and may have resulted in slow operation) and a locking bar which ran the full length of the chamber under the walkway, which prevented both guillotines being opened at the same time.

[IanD]

19 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I first boated that way in the early 80s. I fully intended to pass through the steel lock, but when we got there it was closed. But we could still walk all around it and see how it worked. I don't think I took any photographs, but the things I remember are the external steel pipe paddle 'culverts' (which looked rather small to my mind and may have resulted in slow operation) and a locking bar which ran the full length of the chamber under the walkway, which prevented both guillotines being opened at the same time.

 

The remaining guillotine locks that I've been through are also a PITA, notably the ones at Slaithwaite (160 turns on the windlass IIRC!) and Salterhebble (pictured) -- any others still in use?

[Scholar Gypsy]

Lots  in the Fens of course and on the Nene. All but seven on the Nene are electrically operated.

 

Here's a little video of Bottisham on the River Cam.
 

 

[TheBiscuits]

17 hours ago, IanD said:

The remaining guillotine locks that I've been through are also a PITA, notably the ones at Slaithwaite (160 turns on the windlass IIRC!) and Salterhebble (pictured) -- any others still in use?

 

Todmorden.

 

At least Tod and Salterhebble are powered!

 

Slaithwaite is a pain, especially going uphill as you can't sensibly moor anywhere near it - simple enough with energetic ground crew but a real beggar (or a long walk!) singlehanded.

 

 

[Ian Mac]

On 20/02/2023 at 13:28, BEngo said:

I understand that it was extremely slow to work and the conventional lock alongside continued to be available, so it was quicker to put a pair of boats through that in sequence than to work the two in parallel, especially in the middle of a group of boats where the steel lock would need to be filled and emptied (or vice versa).

 

The lack of use would seem to be corroborated by the dearth of photos of  boats actually using it.

 

N

 

I have used it several times, it was slow and hard work, but it had to be done so you could claim to have used it. There were two ways of doing it one as designed by using the paddles, the second way was just to wind the gate up, which worked  quite well. This was the method the boatmen used. 
With todays technology we would have had lots of pictures, I only know of very few. The old boatmen used the old lock alongside, in preference, which was not well maintained, but far quicker.
There had been lots of problems around this area with Brine subsidence. It is important to understand that unlike coal subsidence Brine did not attract high levels of compensation. If it had they would have just had a new lock rebuilt. The steel lock was a way they hoped of lowering the cost. However once built the area has not subsided again, so the cost of maintenance became far more than keeping the old lock going, and thus the eventual decision to scrap it.

--

Ian Mac

[Pluto]

One of Roger Lorenz's photos from the early 1970s.

[Ian Mac]

Ohh! look at the colour of the gates - Not Black!

--

cheers Ian Mac

[Pluto]

I am not sure if grey counts as a colour, though I am sure a modern colour chart would call it something like 'English morning'.

[GUMPY]

Black and white are not strictly colours either🥱

As far as light is concerned 

Black is an absence of colour 

White is all the colours combined 😎

[Ray T]

Black & White is also a song. 😁

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

20 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Black and white are not strictly colours either🥱

As far as light is concerned 

Black is an absence of colour 

White is all the colours combined 😎

Probably not PC ether

[Ronaldo47]

The steel lock was intact but out of use when we went that way doing the 4 Counties Ring in a week in the early 1980's. It was just myself and my wife, and I remember having real difficulty in pushing the top gate "uphill" to get it open due to the angle subsidance had left it at.  I did just manage it without having to nudge it with the boat. 

[Derek R.]

Look on any colour chart and you will find many colours of grey, and many names of those colours.

Black & White Cigarettes:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30085118

Also a Whisky.

 

PC my ar**.

[Jim Riley]

5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Probably not PC ether

A relative of Officer dibble? As for the colour, what about going posh paint style, "Old  Chough" 

[IanD]

5 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

The steel lock was intact but out of use when we went that way doing the 4 Counties Ring in a week in the early 1980's. It was just myself and my wife, and I remember having real difficulty in pushing the top gate "uphill" to get it open due to the angle subsidance had left it at.  I did just manage it without having to nudge it with the boat. 

I thought it had guillotine gates at both ends?

 

In which case it's not surprising you had trouble pushing the top gate "uphill"... 😉

 

Aha, just realised you went through the other lock -- never mind, that explains it...

Edited February 23, 2023 by IanD
had a lightbulb moment...

[Ian Mac]

12 hours ago, Pluto said:

I am not sure if grey counts as a colour, though I am sure a modern colour chart would call it something like 'English morning'.

I just happen to have a proper colour chart by my desk. This is the 1948 BS 381C chart which has all the proper colours, like Bold Green & Cherry Red, also this is where  Black, White & Aluminium are defined.

There are 16 Greys listed at a quick glance.

626 Camouflage Grey
627 Light Aircraft Grey
630 French Grey

631 Light Grey
632 Dark Admiralty Grey

633 RAF Blue/Grey
637 Medium Sea Grey

638 Dark Sea Grey

639 Light Slate Grey

640 Extra Dark Sea Grey

676 Light Weatherwork Grey
677 Dark Weatherwork Grey
692 Smoke Grey
693 Aircraft Grey
694 Dove Grey
697 Light Admiralty Grey

 

The grey used looks fairly close to camouflage grey.

--

Cheers Ian Mac
 

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Ian Mac said:

I just happen to have a proper colour chart by my desk. This is the 1948 BS 381C chart which has all the proper colours, like Bold Green & Cherry Red, also this is where  Black, White & Aluminium are defined.

There are 16 Greys listed at a quick glance.

626 Camouflage Grey
627 Light Aircraft Grey
630 French Grey

631 Light Grey
632 Dark Admiralty Grey

633 RAF Blue/Grey
637 Medium Sea Grey

638 Dark Sea Grey

639 Light Slate Grey

640 Extra Dark Sea Grey

676 Light Weatherwork Grey
677 Dark Weatherwork Grey
692 Smoke Grey
693 Aircraft Grey
694 Dove Grey
697 Light Admiralty Grey

 

The grey used looks fairly close to camouflage grey.

--

Cheers Ian Mac
 

I thought there were 50 shades 

[Pluto]

4 minutes ago, Ian Mac said:

I just happen to have a proper colour chart by my desk. This is the 1948 BS 381C chart which has all the proper colours, like Bold Green & Cherry Red, also this is where  Black, White & Aluminium are defined.

There are 16 Greys listed at a quick glance.

626 Camouflage Grey
627 Light Aircraft Grey
630 French Grey

631 Light Grey
632 Dark Admiralty Grey

633 RAF Blue/Grey
637 Medium Sea Grey

638 Dark Sea Grey

639 Light Slate Grey

640 Extra Dark Sea Grey

676 Light Weatherwork Grey
677 Dark Weatherwork Grey
692 Smoke Grey
693 Aircraft Grey
694 Dove Grey
697 Light Admiralty Grey

 

The grey used looks fairly close to camouflage grey.

--

Cheers Ian Mac
 

Yes, lots of greys have been produced, but they will all have colour pigments added, rather than a true grey.

[Ronaldo47]

These days I think the "Pantone" system is used to define colours.  For Registered Trademarks that include colours, the colours are expressed as Pantone numbers. 

 

I still have a set of accurately calibrated logarithmically-graduated grey scale wedges produced photographically by Kodak that were/are used by professional photographers to establish the correct exposure and colour balance of colour films. They would be positioned in an area that could be cropped out, and when printing,  adjusting the colour balance to  reproduce the grey scale accurately would ensure that the colours of the prints accurately matched the original scene.   I bought them in the 1980's when I was experimenting with long time exposures with colour film, which causes the colour balance to shift due to "reciprocity failure". Not really a problem these days with digital photography.  

Edited February 23, 2023 by Ronaldo47
typos

[GUMPY]

Years ago all our equipment and flight cases were coloured BS 18b29 a very pleasant greyish colour

Strangely 40 years later I can still remember the number