Historic boat owner film maker

[ditchcrawler]

Not sure the title is 100% correct as I am not sure exactly what they are doing

 

[Ray T]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Not sure the title is 100% correct as I am not sure exactly what they are doing

 

"What it was like for the people working on the narrowboats, life, love, children working conditions."

 

First of all, you have much research ahead of you. 

I have been doing this for about 10 years and am still only scratching the surface.

Get yourself up to the Audlum MIll bookshop with a fat wallet, many books available there: Audlem Mill - Home

 

 

 

 

[PD1964]

Here’s a link to her YouTube, one of the many Social media Narrowboaters.

https://youtube.com/@EarleWrites

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, Ray T said:

"What it was like for the people working on the narrowboats, life, love, children working conditions."

 

First of all, you have much research ahead of you. 

I have been doing this for about 10 years and am still only scratching the surface.

Get yourself up to the Audlum MIll bookshop with a fat wallet, many books available there: Audlem Mill - Home

 

 

 

 

More interesting then anything she’s put on👍

[Tam & Di]

5 hours ago, Ray T said:

"What it was like for the people working on the narrowboats, life, love, children working conditions."

 It's certainly nothing like she will be doing. It was work - what you did. You got paid mostly by the ton carried, so no looking at the weather and thinking it was too cold/wet/hot to get up - as Arthur Bray once said talking about the jam 'ole run, you felt the boat move slightly at 0430 or whatever, so you knew someone else was on the move, and you leapt out of bed, into the enginehole, and whoosh - off you were gone. In our own rather limited experience we often had it happen we would work through the night to get to e.g. Roses, ready for emptying first thing. We'd arrive at midnight after a long hard day, only to have someone come over at at 0700 to say they had to unload a lorry first as he had to go all the way back to Birmingham, and we only loaded at Brentford. So he was an hour or so away, where Brentford was 10-12 hours, but it was impossible to explain.

If a boatman's partner died they'd have to find a new partner asap as single handed commercial boating was not a real option, and what else would you do if that was all you knew? There were no mobile phones, certainly no internet - you might leave messages written on lock walls for your loved one maybe, or perhaps messages with a lock keeper. But against that, it was a way of life, not just a job. In the 70s when commercial boating was effectively ended we often spoke to boatmen who said they'd 'go back tomorrow' if it were possible. But speak to the wives and it was another tale altogether.

The OP will no doubt hear of the romance of the life - the roses and the castles and so on. She may even hear tell some of the downsides, a bit as I just wrote. But without actually doing it she will have no real idea. There is some element of the communal experience among genuine continuous cruisers, but there is no way whatsoever of returning to the pre-phone/internet self-sufficient days of yore, or truly understanding them.

 

Tam

Edited December 18, 2022 by Tam & Di

[roland elsdon]

Work was something you cycled to, films were taken to boots, and a phone call involved walking to find a phone box.

communication was chalk on the lock beams.

I remember when we got cb radio on the boats!

[Laurie Booth]

4 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Work was something you cycled to, films were taken to boots, and a phone call involved walking to find a phone box.

communication was chalk on the lock beams.

I remember when we got cb radio on the boats!

That's a big ten four 

 

[Derek R.]

The daydreams of modern man. Do they not realise it's all been done before? - Films, documentaries, books and magazines? It was hard graft. Yes it had its own lifestyles which are now gone, but how many would have swopped their back cabin on cold wet days for a council house and bath.

 

'A Big Ten four' - Broderick Crawford in Highway Patrol. Used to love that as a kid.

[Captain Pegg]

8 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

 It's certainly nothing like she will be doing. It was work - what you did. You got paid mostly by the ton carried, so no looking at the weather and thinking it was too cold/wet/hot to get up - as Arthur Bray once said talking about the jam 'ole run, you felt the boat move slightly at 0430 or whatever, so you knew someone else was on the move, and you leapt out of bed, into the enginehole, and whoosh - off you were gone. In our own rather limited experience we often had it happen we would work through the night to get to e.g. Roses, ready for emptying first thing. We'd arrive at midnight after a long hard day, only to have someone come over at at 0700 to say they had to unload a lorry first as he had to go all the way back to Birmingham, and we only loaded at Brentford. So he was an hour or so away, where Brentford was 10-12 hours, but it was impossible to explain.

If a boatman's partner died they'd have to find a new partner asap as single handed commercial boating was not a real option, and what else would you do if that was all you knew? There were no mobile phones, certainly no internet - you might leave messages written on lock walls for your loved one maybe, or perhaps messages with a lock keeper. But against that, it was a way of life, not just a job. In the 70s when commercial boating was effectively ended we often spoke to boatmen who said they'd 'go back tomorrow' if it were possible. But speak to the wives and it was another tale altogether.

The OP will no doubt hear of the romance of the life - the roses and the castles and so on. She may even hear tell some of the downsides, a bit as I just wrote. But without actually doing it she will have no real idea. There is some element of the communal experience among genuine continuous cruisers, but there is no way whatsoever of returning to the pre-phone/internet self-sufficient days of yore, or truly understanding them.

 

Tam

Might it be churlish to point out the existence of the book Ramlin Rose to the owner?

 

Or the two academic studies into the subject concerned.

 

I also wonder why they refer to Malvern as “Maggie”. If it’s an arbitrary pet name then “Mollie” would be better. Or perhaps they are not aware of how Malvern is normally pronounced.

 

 

[Bee]

Funny innit. Some jobs just get a kind of romance about them. Trucking in the USA has a whole culture about it and to some extent so has driving over here. Mostly its pretty boring, the motorways are as boring as hell, parking up overnight in Scunthorpe is not romantic, getting flu or a bad cold or any other illness is just plain horrible when you have 4 more nights out, you can lose your licence for a very long list of things, its terrible for your health and the pay is only any good if you work your maximum hours.  The thing that would have put me off boating for a living was standing on the back of a narrowboat being rained/sleeted/snowed on for 12 hours and being frozen to the tiller.

[Ray T]

Following on from a comment Tam made about the boating wives and I’ve met a few. All the men boater’s I’ve met have remarked “Given the chance I’d do it all again.” Ask their wives and you will get a totally different answer.

To quote from a poem by Ray White:

 

”These folk who glamorise it often have no clue

Of what it’s like to drive a horse all day in pouring rain

Then wake up in the morning - and do it all again.”

 

A different world then.

[roland elsdon]

Even when we did it ‘for fun’ it was bloody hard. Getting the motor off the bottom with a load on is hell, when the pounds dropped overnight, and going up Hatton and then up lapworth  in the same day bowhauling the butty , is fine  in the summer with no pressure on , but every few days, in the winter, ? No.  

We had days when we just gave up, wind rain snow ice, and that was going off our moorings on ‘trips’ . If you had to deliver or collect no way fun, and frequently unsafe.

Sue went in at the top of the Aylesbury arm bow hauling the butty into the top lock, the butty started going over her and she had to swim through into the lock. Fortunately I had opened the gate, or she would have been under the boat against the gate, that was on a warm dry April day.
 

Hard resilient people, many died young.

[Captain Pegg]

56 minutes ago, Bee said:

Funny innit. Some jobs just get a kind of romance about them. Trucking in the USA has a whole culture about it and to some extent so has driving over here. Mostly its pretty boring, the motorways are as boring as hell, parking up overnight in Scunthorpe is not romantic, getting flu or a bad cold or any other illness is just plain horrible when you have 4 more nights out, you can lose your licence for a very long list of things, its terrible for your health and the pay is only any good if you work your maximum hours.  The thing that would have put me off boating for a living was standing on the back of a narrowboat being rained/sleeted/snowed on for 12 hours and being frozen to the tiller.

 

Did you note the working day being described as "half four in the morning 'til half ten in the evening" or something similar? You wouldn't have survived doing 12 hour days.

[Ray T]

23 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Did you note the working day being described as "half four in the morning 'til half ten in the evening" or something similar? You wouldn't have survived doing 12 hour days.

 

Many years ago, I took Mike to John Barrett's funeral at St. Thomas, Longford.

During his eulogy the vicar mentioned it was a long working day for the boaters' often getting up a 6 am in the morning.

At this I hear a loud snort from my left followed by the comment "Part timers."

In the summer months Mike would often be on the move at 3 am at the latest then often working 'till 10 pm or on occasions, later.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Ray T

[Rob-M]

I took Scorpio and Leo down the 21, it was raining continually.  By the time we got to Wheaton Aston lock, soaked through, cold and tired I pulled the motor in just before the lock mooring and the butty behind.  There was a hire boat that was trying to work out what they needed to do as it was their first lock so showed them what to do and then decided that was enough and went to the pub.  I wouldn't have wanted to have had to carry on to make a living.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I’ve had a skip through some of her YouTube films.

I think she’s found how difficult it can be at times simply moving for pleasure.

 

I wish her luck all the same

It’ll be interesting to see if she sticks at it

Hope she does

[Mike Hurley]

28 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I’ve had a skip through some of her YouTube films.

I think she’s found how difficult it can be at times simply moving for pleasure.

 

I wish her luck all the same

It’ll be interesting to see if she sticks at it

Hope she does

I think she spent a few months sailing with one of the big sailing you tubers, SV Delos? Out in the Atlantic/Pacific, bit calmer on the cut.

[Captain Pegg]

7 hours ago, Ray T said:

Following on from a comment Tam made about the boating wives and I’ve met a few. All the men boater’s I’ve met have remarked “Given the chance I’d do it all again.” Ask their wives and you will get a totally different answer.

To quote from a poem by Ray White:

 

”These folk who glamorise it often have no clue

Of what it’s like to drive a horse all day in pouring rain

Then wake up in the morning - and do it all again.”

 

A different world then.

 

Those boaters still around and willing to talk about their lives were of course the diehards who stuck at it to the end and are enthusiasts as much as they are workers.

 

I've mentioned here before how my great grandmother refused to bring up her daughters on a boat, having herself been subjected to that fate. She raised seven infant sons aboard before her eighth (live) born gave her a daughter. That's how the family came to the bank and the younger children went to school while my great grandfather and his older sons continued to work the boats. Although my great granddad worked until a considerable age - seemingly converting from an owner-operator horse boater to a motor steerer for Samuel Barlow's at about 70 years of age - he outlasted all but one of his sons because they hated it.  Legend also has it that the one who remained a boatman in adult life had to escape to Uxbridge (from Coventry) to get away from his dad.  There was also pressure on the men to get jobs with regular days, hours and pay once they were married.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Captain Pegg

[Tam & Di]

Life as a working boatman was a strange contradiction - there was the self sufficiency, the self determination, but against that was the job, being a 'delivery driver' and having to be at a particular place and time determined by others. When we first semi-retired and took our barge Friesland to France it was very strange, arriving at a junction with a choice of places to go, and we never did really get into pleasure boating as it is generally done. We had no need to stop every five minutes for morning coffee, lunch, or afternoon tea, and we didn't. We could eat on the move, and take turn to steer if necessary. If we were going some place we would most often set off the moment the locks opened and keep going until they closed for the night, summer or winter. But that was because our major interest is we really love the art of boating, and how to do it as rapidly and effortlessly as possible.

I'm sure that the reason canals are so popular is they accommodate such a wide range of interests, and none are intrinsically better than any others. I guess someone needs to explain that to the boater dawdling along in front and not letting anyone by, or taking half an hour to pass a lock  😃

Edited December 19, 2022 by Tam & Di

[Dav and Pen]

1 hour ago, Tam & Di said:

Life as a working boatman was a strange contradiction - there was the self sufficiency, the self determination, but against that was the job, being a 'delivery driver' and having to be at a particular place and time determined by others. When we first semi-retired and took our barge Friesland to France it was very strange, arriving at a junction with a choice of places to go, and we never did really get into pleasure boating as it is generally done. We had no need to stop every five minutes for morning coffee, lunch, or afternoon tea, and we didn't. We could eat on the move, and take turn to steer if necessary. If we were going some place we would most often set off the moment the locks opened and keep going until they closed for the night, summer or winter. But that was because our major interest is we really love the art of boating, and how to do it as rapidly and effortlessly as possible.

I'm sure that the reason canals are so popular is they accommodate such a wide range of interests, and none are intrinsically better than any others. I guess someone needs to explain that to the boater dawdling along in front and not letting anyone by, or taking half an hour to pass a lock  😃

I can concur with why Tam says. We always wanted to be on the move as soon as possible and to boat as professional as possible. In our early days with NB we did our best to keep our heads down and not be thought to be acting as the born and bred boat people who’s world had come to an end whilst we had found new traffic in the retail coal trade and camping boats. I was lucky in knowing the Brays Collins Whitlocks and others who often gave gentle criticism and occasion actual help. We also finished up pleasure boatings but still went about it as before and when we finished up in Europe with an old Dutch barge we tried to keep out of the way of the professionals and when we did have to share locks with them we were determined to be as fast as possible as with the working boatmen on the English canals time is money. The biggest compliment we were paid on the continent was by a very smart Belgian barge who came on the radio and said” you look after your boat Englishman Mr de Kimper was a friend of mine and you are keeping it well” fame indeed. 
nobody now can imagine the work life of the narrow boatmen even the famed jam hole run was only part of it as they often went and loaded sand at Leighton Buzzard and then back to London to shovel out 50 tons of sand by hand, like to see one of these U tubers trying it.

see

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

Life as a working boatman was a strange contradiction - there was the self sufficiency, the self determination, but against that was the job, being a 'delivery driver' and having to be at a particular place and time determined by others. When we first semi-retired and took our barge Friesland to France it was very strange, arriving at a junction with a choice of places to go, and we never did really get into pleasure boating as it is generally done. We had no need to stop every five minutes for morning coffee, lunch, or afternoon tea, and we didn't. We could eat on the move, and take turn to steer if necessary. If we were going some place we would most often set off the moment the locks opened and keep going until they closed for the night, summer or winter. But that was because our major interest is we really love the art of boating, and how to do it as rapidly and effortlessly as possible.

I'm sure that the reason canals are so popular is they accommodate such a wide range of interests, and none are intrinsically better than any others. I guess someone needs to explain that to the boater dawdling along in front and not letting anyone by, or taking half an hour to pass a lock  😃

 

That is how we boat, rarely stopping until the end of the day except to.allow the dog the odd comfort break. Even then I pull into the side, Mrs Hound and the dog get off and I carry on until they are ready to get back on board.

 

However as we have got older our cruising hours per day have gone from 12+ to about 6.

[Jubbly]

14 hours ago, Dav and Pen said:

I can concur with why Tam says. We always wanted to be on the move as soon as possible and to boat as professional as possible. In our early days with NB we did our best to keep our heads down and not be thought to be acting as the born and bred boat people who’s world had come to an end whilst we had found new traffic in the retail coal trade and camping boats. I was lucky in knowing the Brays Collins Whitlocks and others who often gave gentle criticism and occasion actual help. We also finished up pleasure boatings but still went about it as before and when we finished up in Europe with an old Dutch barge we tried to keep out of the way of the professionals and when we did have to share locks with them we were determined to be as fast as possible as with the working boatmen on the English canals time is money. The biggest compliment we were paid on the continent was by a very smart Belgian barge who came on the radio and said” you look after your boat Englishman Mr de Kimper was a friend of mine and you are keeping it well” fame indeed. 
nobody now can imagine the work life of the narrow boatmen even the famed jam hole run was only part of it as they often went and loaded sand at Leighton Buzzard and then back to London to shovel out 50 tons of sand by hand, like to see one of these U tubers trying it.

see

Not 50 tons. More like 22, but single handed. Remains of Banbury Dairy in 2007 with 3 boiler-room ‘holes’, where you ‘chucked’ it, blocked up. But the 56 lb iron log ring still there!

[Derek R.]

I can almost hear that Petter(?) blatting away. Did a few miles behind one.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

What was pay like?

On 19/12/2022 at 18:08, Dav and Pen said:

I can concur with why Tam says. We always wanted to be on the move as soon as possible and to boat as professional as possible. In our early days with NB we did our best to keep our heads down and not be thought to be acting as the born and bred boat people who’s world had come to an end whilst we had found new traffic in the retail coal trade and camping boats. I was lucky in knowing the Brays Collins Whitlocks and others who often gave gentle criticism and occasion actual help. We also finished up pleasure boatings but still went about it as before and when we finished up in Europe with an old Dutch barge we tried to keep out of the way of the professionals and when we did have to share locks with them we were determined to be as fast as possible as with the working boatmen on the English canals time is money. The biggest compliment we were paid on the continent was by a very smart Belgian barge who came on the radio and said” you look after your boat Englishman Mr de Kimper was a friend of mine and you are keeping it well” fame indeed. 
nobody now can imagine the work life of the narrow boatmen even the famed jam hole run was only part of it as they often went and loaded sand at Leighton Buzzard and then back to London to shovel out 50 tons of sand by hand, like to see one of these U tubers trying it.

see

What was pay like in the coal trade?

Could you make ‘good money’?

How would working independently compare to working for a company regards pay and working conditions?

I guess there was no such thing as a boaters’ strike, or was there ever?

 

 

[Dav and Pen]

7 minutes ago, Goliath said:

What was pay like?

What was pay like in the coal trade?

Could you make ‘good money’?

How would working independently compare to working for a company regards pay and working conditions?

I guess there was no such thing as a boaters’ strike, or was there ever?

 

 

We never got rich that’s for sure. It was pretty hard then as we loaded it loose and had to bag it up as we went. A living was possible and the boat earned its maintenance. We worked independently in the 1970s but under the auspices of Ashby canal transport who gave each boat an area to trade in and build up the customers. 
There was actually a strike of boatmen think in the 30s and there are photos of the canal blocked at Braunston.