DIY Renovation

[Faye_H]

Hey - new to the world of canals and hoping you can help! 
Wondering if anyone can recommend  good books/guides/websites/people for boat renovations.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[LadyG]

Deleted

Edited December 13, 2022 by LadyG

[blackrose]

You might need to be a bit more specific in order to get any meaningful replies. What do you mean by renovations? It's a bit of a vague term. As for websites there's plenty of information on this forum. Have a look in the archives in the boat building and maintenance section.

Edited December 14, 2022 by blackrose

[Tracy D'arth]

11 hours ago, Faye_H said:

Hey - new to the world of canals and hoping you can help! 
Wondering if anyone can recommend  good books/guides/websites/people for boat renovations.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

The Mary Rose: The excavation and raising of Henry VIII's flagship 

[MtB]

11 hours ago, Faye_H said:

Hey - new to the world of canals and hoping you can help! 
Wondering if anyone can recommend  good books/guides/websites/people for boat renovations.

Thanks in advance.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

That must be one of the most general and non-specific requests for help I've ever seen on here!

 

If you could perhaps narrow down what you need help with, then you'll get loads of support and advice here, but people need a specific problem to get a grip on to give any advice.

 

Do you actually have a boat yet? 

[LadyG]

If you are thinking about buying an old wreck as a project, forget it.

If thinking about buying a new wreck and tarting it up, forget it.

On YouTube, Colin Jacques fitted out a narrowboat, using his workshop and his extensive skills, without these resources plus a big bank balance, forget it.

Unless you are prepared to lose a year's boating plus every weekend, plus holidays, and probably a massive amount of money, forget it.

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by LadyG

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

If you are thinking about buying an old wreck as a project, forget it.

If thinking about buying a new wreck and tarting it up, forget it.

On YouTube, Colin Jacques fitted out a narrowboat, using his workshop and his extensive skills, without these resources plus a big bank balance, forget it.

Unless you are prepared to lose a year's boating plus every weekend, plus holidays, and probably a massive amount of money, forget it.

 

^^^ This ^^^ is broadly correct.

 

One thing not mentioned is if at the end of the project (ten years later) if the OP adds up all the money they'll spend on materials and adds it to what they paid for said wreck, they will find they could have bought a finished boat in good condition in the first place. And saved themselves all the work.

[Awayonmyboat]

I'll try and be a bit more positive! Many people do successfully restore / renovate narrow boats but it is also true many (more) never complete the journey having not realised the amount of work and cost involved.

 

You are doing the right thing, asking now for info before you have a project or even solid ideas. If you follow this through and remain questioning you raise your chances of success.

 

I suggest the following You tube channels: 

- The Nomadic Crobot,

- The boat that James built.

Both channels will give you a reasonably unvarnished view of how much work and cost is actually involved in restoring a "project" boat.

 

This site. Just continuously browse it for a few months. You will begin to pick up good info and more importantly start to recognise bad info. There are also some wonderfully experienced people on this site but they are often somewhat understandably frustrated at having the same questions asked - so learn to use the search function.

 

Tony Brookes training notes on plumbing, electrical and the like. Search here on this site for links.

 

Hope this is good for a starter.

 

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Unless you are prepared to lose a year's boating plus every weekend and probably a massive amount of money, forget it.

 

 

Just a year. Well OK ,maybe if you are doing it full time but I doubt it if you are working, even more so if you have no mooring with cover where you can store expensive ma5erials and tools, that gives space to maneuver and cut large  sheets of "wood".

 

To the OP, unless this is going be a simple tart up job and paint the interior in London white for a quick resale then LadyG is probably correct.

 

It sounds like an old or very old hull, so how are your welding and metal bashing skills?

 

FWIW, I used to help fit out bought in hulls for hire cruisers and with a team of engineers, carpenters, and painters it would take three months or so and that is with proper workshops and full time. A strip out most on my rear cabin, reline, make and fit new cupboards etc. took me a whole winter, October to about February, because everything had to be cut or made at home and brought to the boat. Thius was along with full time work.

 

I would suggest that if working you allow three to five years for the project (some project boats never get completed because the owners get fed up) and at least three times the money you think it will cost.

 

I am not trying to be negative and only wish to help you understand what you are taking on, including the tome and costs involved, Anyway, the best of luck but please think long and hard.

[Murflynn]

come on guys, it's no more difficult than trying to renovate a neglected Victorian terraced house in central London in a no parking zone. 

 

it only requires stripping out all the internal fitting out, excavation and repairs to the foundations including installing a DPC, removing all the damaged or failing plaster and lath, replacing all the rotten floor timbers and staircase, removing the roof tiles, replacing all the rotten roof timbers, installing underfelt and tiles, replastering walls and ceilings throughout, replacing the plumbing and wiring and then adding the finishing touches such as fitted furniture and storage, painting ..........

 

......................  well you know the rest ..................  😉 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Murflynn

[MtB]

In addition to Tony's comments another thing to consider is 'doing up' an old boat properly and well is not that different from fitting out a new shell. Takes longer though as re-fitting an old shell also requires renovating the shell itself once stripped out, unlike with buying a new one. 

 

So the net result is for the same work, and not much different expenditure, you end up with an old hull with a new fit-out, instead of a new hull with a new fit-out, but for similar money and effort. And the former will be worth a lot less than the latter.

 

 

I suggest having a good look at buying a new sailaway rather than doing up a wreck. 

 

 

[rusty69]

^^^^^

 

What he said. With the power of hindsight, I wish that is what we did instead of buying an older boat which we pretty much gutted and refitted. 

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

come on guys, it's no more difficult than trying to renovate a neglected Victorian terraced house in central London in a no parking zone. 

 

it only requires stripping out all the internal fitting out, excavation and repairs to the foundations including installing a DPC, removing all the damaged or failing plaster and lath, replacing all the rotten floor timbers and staircase, removing the roof tiles, replacing all the rotten roof timbers, installing underfelt and tiles, replastering walls and ceilings throughout, replacing the plumbing and wiring and then adding the finishing touches such as fitted furniture and storage, painting ..........

 

......................  well you know the rest ..................  😉 

 

I would dispute than analogy on the grounds of working and storage space, A house is unlikely to have rooms about 5ft wide and as work progresses, depending upon the designs, getting increasingly shorter. Then there is the lack of headroom in a boat when trying to maneuver 8x4 sheet material. In most cases the house can have a skip outside to remove the waste, that is far less likely on a boat so time is needed to take the waste to the local tip - if they will accept it from you.

[Phoenix_V]

https://shop.waterwaysworld.com/product/NBBUILDERS/the-narrowboat-builder-s-book

 

https://shop.waterwaysworld.com/product/NBPLANNING/ww-guide-to-narrowboat-planning

 

both books a bit long in the tooth now but still worth a read

[Arthur Marshall]

17 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

https://shop.waterwaysworld.com/product/NBBUILDERS/the-narrowboat-builder-s-book

 

https://shop.waterwaysworld.com/product/NBPLANNING/ww-guide-to-narrowboat-planning

 

both books a bit long in the tooth now but still worth a read

I used those extensively when refitting mine from scratch (though a few original bits did go back in). I don't think it took longer than six months to do, but it was a short boat with a short cabin. And the cost these days would be colossal - don't forget to triple your original estimate for visits to Screwfix for more screws. That's if you're going to do it yourself, but from the OP it looks like you want to hire someone to do it?

If the latter, unless you're as rich as Rishi Sunak, don't bother. Eight hours a day at fifty quid an hour (if you're lucky) for six months plus materials...

[Bee]

I would have a go, there are a few things to think about though. A friend used to say that you must treat a job like this as though you are doing the job for a customer, you must turn up on time, do everything to a good and compliant standard and spend 3 times as long doing stuff as you thought as well as spending evenings sourcing stuff so that you can continue to carry on the work. If you are thinking of just a makeover rather than a refit then  that is less of a task. I would encourage anybody to have a go, if nothing else it 'de professionalises'  boating which is a good thing in my opinion. Anyway, there are lots of us who have done re fits and more and have become experienced (not necessarily very good though) builders as a result. We always say we would never do another one and then go and do just that. I don't know of any books though.

[ditchcrawler]

Its a pity Dean is not still here. Remember are we there yet?

[Peugeot 106]

30 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I used those extensively when refitting mine from scratch (though a few original bits did go back in). I don't think it took longer than six months to do, but it was a short boat with a short cabin. And the cost these days would be colossal - don't forget to triple your original estimate for visits to Screwfix for more screws. That's if you're going to do it yourself, but from the OP it looks like you want to hire someone to do it?

If the latter, unless you're as rich as Rishi Sunak, don't bother. Eight hours a day at fifty quid an hour (if you're lucky) for six months plus materials...

I too used the same books and sound like I had a similar experience to Arthur. I started working on the boat at the marina 45 minutes away and progress was very slow. I then moved it to a barn closer to home and off I went. If I got pissed off I could come home and have a think and access to the multitude of bits and bobs were handy. I could go up in the evening and work out how to do things. Ok I booked the barn for 2 months and it took 6 but I had the time, the tools (and the money it was expensive)  and enjoyed most of it. Like all DIY jobs it took a lot longer than I thought but I ended up with a pretty decent boat albeit not worth anything like my labour + material costs. 

I'm afraid that unless you are a professional I suggest it  does have to be a labour of love, but in my case worth it as I've had a lot of fun. NB I am retired!

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

I too used the same books and sound like I had a similar experience to Arthur. I started working on the boat at the marina 45 minutes away and progress was very slow. I then moved it to a barn closer to home and off I went. If I got pissed off I could come home and have a think and access to the multitude of bits and bobs were handy. I could go up in the evening and work out how to do things. Ok I booked the barn for 2 months and it took 6 but I had the time, the tools (and the money it was expensive)  and enjoyed most of it. Like all DIY jobs it took a lot longer than I thought but I ended up with a pretty decent boat albeit not worth anything like my labour + material costs. 

I'm afraid that unless you are a professional I suggest it  does have to be a labour of love, but in my case worth it as I've had a lot of fun. NB I am retired!

 

I think the comment about the marina and barn illustrates what a number of us have been saying about the trials of fitting out a boat with no safe and dry external space for storage, cutting etc.

 

If one accepts you are doing it for the love of doing it and are exceptionally unlikely to end up with a boat worth more than you spent then I would say go ahead, but prepare to be frustrated along the way.

[Arthur Marshall]

5 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

I too used the same books and sound like I had a similar experience to Arthur. I started working on the boat at the marina 45 minutes away and progress was very slow. I then moved it to a barn closer to home and off I went. If I got pissed off I could come home and have a think and access to the multitude of bits and bobs were handy. I could go up in the evening and work out how to do things. Ok I booked the barn for 2 months and it took 6 but I had the time, the tools (and the money it was expensive)  and enjoyed most of it. Like all DIY jobs it took a lot longer than I thought but I ended up with a pretty decent boat albeit not worth anything like my labour + material costs. 

I'm afraid that unless you are a professional I suggest it  does have to be a labour of love, but in my case worth it as I've had a lot of fun. NB I am retired!

I was working two days a week and evenings so had plenty of time, and the boat was where it had been replated, on hard standing, which I wasn't charged for, surprisingly. I did enjoy the job, I'd never really done DIY before. There are still bits to finish off, but it's only been twenty years. I'll probably do them tomorrow.

[Peugeot 106]

18 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

There are still bits to finish off, but it's only been twenty years. I'll probably do them tomorrow.

I'd leave them if I were you or you'll start thinking of doing up another boat and you are not as young as you used to be Arthur..............

[Peugeot 106]

PVC Trombone : 8 Steps (with Pictures) - Instructables

 

This should take your mind off it and it won't be as cold on your lips as brass

[Jon57]

2 hours ago, Murflynn said:

come on guys, it's no more difficult than trying to renovate a neglected Victorian terraced house in central London in a no parking zone. 

 

it only requires stripping out all the internal fitting out, excavation and repairs to the foundations including installing a DPC, removing all the damaged or failing plaster and lath, replacing all the rotten floor timbers and staircase, removing the roof tiles, replacing all the rotten roof timbers, installing underfelt and tiles, replastering walls and ceilings throughout, replacing the plumbing and wiring and then adding the finishing touches such as fitted furniture and storage, painting ..........

 

......................  well you know the rest ..................  😉 

All without getting your feet wet on a muddy towpath 🤣

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Jon57 said:

All without getting your feet wet on a muddy towpath 🤣

 

And with the benefit of reliable mains electricity laid on. No genny to get nicked etc etc...

 

 

[Mike Adams]

Unless you enjoy the process of renovation for its own sake and treat the renovation as a hobby that costs money in the process forget it. I have done 6 renovations in 50 years of boating and enjoyed every one including their use when finished but it has seldom made any return once you factor in your time and materials and tools.

you also need a broad skill set to make decent job.

It also seems to me that materials and equipment costs are currently very high and any boat that requires substantial renovation, with the exception of some historic vessels, is likely to be problematic in the hull/structure in which case you are wasting your time completely.