Jump to content

Cruising when the water is frozen


Andrew C

Featured Posts

2 minutes ago, Andrew C said:

I understand that the Gollie has a flow, so less likely to freeze. I just wasn't sure what the general temperature to freezing was on other canals (and don't quote the freezing point of water). Was hoping water/canal craft movement, and water impurities might lower the general freezing point. I wouldn't want to travel through anything other than a millimetre or two of ice as it does seem likely damage can be incurred upon more than just my own craft, but others and potentially wildlife. I'll stay this side of Hurlesdon until Sunday when the milder weather arrives, hopefully. Then crank it to Chester

I'd make a guess that other canals will freeze sooner than the Llangollen. There is a faster flow of water along it than is usual for canals to feed the reservoir. This will inhibit surface ice for a bit longer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

No one complains though when the coal boat comes through with the coal do they?

 

I suggest, just to wind things up another notch, it’s only those on linier moorings who never move that do the complaining.

And probably don't have any blacking anyway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

There's another dimension to it too. Cruising through light ice is likely to draw the ire of other boaters as opinion nowadays amongst boaters seems to be that the moving ice sheets you'll be creating, damage the blacking on moored boats as you pass. 

 

I have a theory that any stationary occupied boats cause damage to their own blacking.

Everytime an occupant moves the boat obviously rocks and this causes it to rub on the ice.

So any passing boat actually helps..😀

  • Greenie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Goliath said:

No one complains though when the coal boat comes through with the coal do they?

 

I suggest, just to wind things up another notch, it’s only those on linier moorings who never move that do the complaining.

Interesting you say that Goliath. Do you know if the fuel boats have ice breaking design features? I ask because Chamberlains Fuel boats are now making deliveries by van on the Shroppie and yet Four Counties are still moving on the canal and were even discussing if I could get to Hurlesdon by Tuesday lunchtime to buy supplies. This is exactly why I began to question if the canal was that bad, or it was just on some arms or marinas where it was too frozen. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Andrew C said:

Interesting you say that Goliath. Do you know if the fuel boats have ice breaking design features? I ask because Chamberlains Fuel boats are now making deliveries by van on the Shroppie and yet Four Counties are still moving on the canal and were even discussing if I could get to Hurlesdon by Tuesday lunchtime to buy supplies. This is exactly why I began to question if the canal was that bad, or it was just on some arms or marinas where it was too frozen. 

Nope, just a pointy front end

Edited by Goliath
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

 

3 minutes ago, Andrew C said:

Interesting you say that Goliath. Do you know if the fuel boats have ice breaking design features? I ask because Chamberlains Fuel boats are now making deliveries by van on the Shroppie and yet Four Counties are still moving on the canal and were even discussing if I could get to Hurlesdon by Tuesday lunchtime to buy supplies. This is exactly why I began to question if the canal was that bad, or it was just on some arms or marinas where it was too frozen. 

Personally I’m staying put because there’s everything I need here which is Alvechurch by the way, I see you have that as your original location

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ice is a funny old stuff it can be less than a mill thick in some places and really thick in others. I would guess that going across the Moss will be bad as the canal is slightly higher than the surrounding ground, and the heat will have vanished from the water there, so it will I predict be well frozen.

 

As to travelling in Ice I really enjoy it, but it can be a slow job.
I will post here what I have written elsewhere.
Just to keep the moving in ice brigade happy


Well when the return button will stop posting early I will! - Twice now!

 

I don't not know the C&RT by-laws in detail however I do know the Bridgewater ones. They make it clear that if your boat can not stand being in the canal when frozen that it is your responsibility to remove it to a safe place, be that a marina or the bank.
The reason for this rule is that maintenance boats need to be able to move what ever the weather. I am aware of boats punching through 4 inch ice. see Youtube.
I suspect C&RT have a similar rule.
All insurance companies will go straight to this rule should you attempt to claim and point out that your boat is not fit for purpose and therefore the insurance is invalid.
The most common failure is that the ice is punched into your boat and when the thaw comes your boat then sinks. This does not need a boat to come past but just the wind or water flow, can achieve this.
I am aware that several owners of GRP boats have attempted to claim and all have failed, I am assuming for this reason. This is as far back as the 1960's when most pleasure boats were GRP and there was still commercial traffic, which would not stop till the ice was really really thick.
That said its the really thin ice which can do the damage, all to do with point loading I'm told.
 
 
Edited by Ian Mac
  • Greenie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Andrew C said:

Interesting you say that Goliath. Do you know if the fuel boats have ice breaking design features? I ask because Chamberlains Fuel boats are now making deliveries by van on the Shroppie and yet Four Counties are still moving on the canal and were even discussing if I could get to Hurlesdon by Tuesday lunchtime to buy supplies. This is exactly why I began to question if the canal was that bad, or it was just on some arms or marinas where it was too frozen. 

Are you at Ellesmere?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Goliath said:

 

How funny. Yes, we possibly know each other. My boat was an ex ABC hire boat, Great Owl. I was moored from January to April, a couple of boats closer to the car park from Lucifer, refitting the boat before moving my family on board and becoming continuous cruisers. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Andrew C said:

Thanks MtB. I think already I'm coming to the conclusion I need to abandon trying to cruise in negative temperatures and wait to travel in the rain instead 🙄. Cheers for the input. 

And that is the correct answer.

 

If you are tempted to move when the ice is breakable I would suggest not doing it. Apart from scraping your blacking off you will also be met by many upset boaters when you pass them, if you have ever had an 'ice breaker' pass you on a narrow canal you will understand just how noisy and disruptive it is, mind you the upside is you might learn some new words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I remember cruising the GU South in 2009 when thick ice was present. A plastic boat was moored on the corner and the owner looked quite surprised as the whole top half of his boat including his breakfast and wife from the waist up were sliced off and pushed 200 yards down the cut to the next bend.

Yes particularly nasty for plastic boats.

 

Bit of pedantry I'm assuming the wife wasn't sliced in half?

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Ian Mac said:

Ice is a funny old stuff it can be less than a mill thick in some places and really thick in others. I would guess that going across the Moss will be bad as the canal is slightly higher than the surrounding ground, and the heat will have vanished from the water there, so it will I predict be well frozen.

 

As to travelling in Ice I really enjoy it, but it can be a slow job.
I will post here what I have written elsewhere.
Just to keep the moving in ice brigade happy


Well when the return button will stop posting early I will! - Twice now!

 

I don't not know the C&RT by-laws in detail however I do know the Bridgewater ones. They make it clear that if your boat can not stand being in the canal when frozen that it is your responsibility to remove it to a safe place, be that a marina or the bank.
The reason for this rule is that maintenance boats need to be able to move what ever the weather. I am aware of boats punching through 4 inch ice. see Youtube.
I suspect C&RT have a similar rule.
All insurance companies will go straight to this rule should you attempt to claim and point out that your boat is not fit for purpose and therefore the insurance is invalid.
The most common failure is that the ice is punched into your boat and when the thaw comes your boat then sinks. This does not need a boat to come past but just the wind or water flow, can achieve this.
I am aware that several owners of GRP boats have attempted to claim and all have failed, I am assuming for this reason. This is as far back as the 1960's when most pleasure boats were GRP and there was still commercial traffic, which would not stop till the ice was really really thick.
That said its the really thin ice which can do the damage, all to do with point loading I'm told.
 
 

 

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I'd make a guess that other canals will freeze sooner than the Llangollen. There is a faster flow of water along it than is usual for canals to feed the reservoir. This will inhibit surface ice for a bit longer

It rarely freezes, I had a mooring on the Llan for about 10yrs and it froze twice in that time and both times were associated with maintenance works that reduced the flow and very very cold weather.

The Prees and Ellesmere branches regularly freeze and that ice can sometimes propagate across the main channel but it's rarely thick enough to cause a problem to straight through travel, attempting to wind can be a problem though 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’d be interested in CRT’s rules (not suggestions) on moving in ice, i’ve recently seen some boaters with a live cam hurl vitriol and abuse at a couple of shareboats for moving back towards their marinas on Friday through the ice and subsequently report them to the share company and CRT. Unsure what they think the outcome will be, but it was plain they were primed to be angry at anyone passing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

There's another dimension to it too. Cruising through light ice is likely to draw the ire of other boaters as opinion nowadays amongst boaters seems to be that the moving ice sheets you'll be creating, damage the blacking on moored boats as you pass. 

 

This is total bollux obviously, but it doesn't stop people believing it.

 

Watch and see how this thread develops now! 

 

 

You are talking the same. Ice sheets do damage blacking and moored GRP boats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You are talking the same. Ice sheets do damage blacking and moored GRP boats.

Taking off the blacking does not necessarily do any damage. As an example, after I had done the summit pound above Hatton, then gone down the whole flight, I was intrigued to see that the blacking had gone (surprise surprise) but what was left was the original red and blue gloss that some aesthetically challenged previous owner had put on the hull when the boat lived on the Thames. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Andrew C said:

Interesting you say that Goliath. Do you know if the fuel boats have ice breaking design features? I ask because Chamberlains Fuel boats are now making deliveries by van on the Shroppie and yet Four Counties are still moving on the canal and were even discussing if I could get to Hurlesdon by Tuesday lunchtime to buy supplies. This is exactly why I began to question if the canal was that bad, or it was just on some arms or marinas where it was too frozen. 

They are heading up to Trevor on Friday and winding there, flag them down if you need any diesel/coal etc :)

 

The LLangollen is not frozen around Llangollen, though the basin was first thing this morning as it was positively tropical here at -6 ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Andrew C said:

How funny. Yes, we possibly know each other. My boat was an ex ABC hire boat, Great Owl. I was moored from January to April, a couple of boats closer to the car park from Lucifer, refitting the boat before moving my family on board and becoming continuous cruisers. 

I’m not in the marina but out on the towpath, and only here on a detour for somewhere to weather out this cold spell.

So we’ve probably not met, but I’ll keep an eye out for Great Owl on my travels 👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.