Order of sale

[Phoebeg543]

Hi, can I just check how to buy a boat which sounds silly but I've realised I don't know the running order. Do I buy the boat (private sale so just bank transfer and get them to sign a bill of sale type document?) then get insurance then get the crt licence and then the sellers contact crt and tell them the boat is mine?

[MtB]

Assuming you've done your checking and are satisfied the seller genuinely owns the boat and is entitled to sell it, then I'd suggest insuring it first, then paying for it and taking possession, then licencing it. In act of licencing it, CRT will I think, assume the boat is yours but the seller ought to tell them too.

 

There is a form CRT send out to owners to complete and return when they sell, or they can do it on the CRT website.

 

[David Mack]

You need insurance in order to licence the boat. CRT will also ask if you have a home mooring or are continuously cruising, so you can only claim the former if you already have a mooring arranged.

Be aware that CRT backdate the licence to the first of the month so if it is close to the month end you may want to arrange with the vendor to formally take ownership the following month.

[Phoebeg543]

21 minutes ago, MtB said:

Assuming you've done your checking and are satisfied the seller genuinely owns the boat and is entitled to sell it, then I'd suggest insuring it first, then paying for it and taking possession, then licencing it. In act of licencing it, CRT will I think, assume the boat is yours but the seller ought to tell them too.

 

There is a form CRT send out to owners to complete and return when they sell, or they can do it on the CRT website.

 

Ahhh this is super thank you!

[AndrewIC]

30 minutes ago, MtB said:

I'd suggest insuring it first, then paying for it and taking possession,

You can only insure a thing in which you have an insurable interest. If you haven’t paid for it, you don’t yet own it and can’t take out insurance on it.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Phoebeg543 said:

Ahhh this is super thank you!

 

Do you know how to ensure that the seller is the owner, and is entitled to sell the boat ?

[Phoenix_V]

14 minutes ago, AndrewIC said:

You can only insure a thing in which you have an insurable interest. If you haven’t paid for it, you don’t yet own it and can’t take out insurance on it.

But there is no reason not to  arrange the insurance to start on the date  you will take ownership. (Or earlier if you have any financial interest in the boat)

Be aware that in the case of an older boat the insurer (unless third party only) may insist on a survey.

[Athy]

17 minutes ago, AndrewIC said:

You can only insure a thing in which you have an insurable interest. If you haven’t paid for it, you don’t yet own it and can’t take out insurance on it.

Is this really so? If I wanted to pay the insurance on my wife's car, would I not be allowed to?

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Athy said:

Is this really so? If I wanted to pay the insurance on my wife's car, would I not be allowed to?

 

Similarly, if I was feeling charitable and wanted to licence a boat owned by a friend fallen on hard times, I don't think I can. I'd have to give him or her the money and hope they didn't fritter it away on stuff like food and fuel....

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

39 minutes ago, Phoebeg543 said:

Ahhh this is super thank you!

And had a survey 

[Captain Pegg]

18 minutes ago, Athy said:

Is this really so? If I wanted to pay the insurance on my wife's car, would I not be allowed to?

I suspect it could be paid from your personal bank account but that would not make you the policy holder. As the owner of the vehicle your wife would have to be the policy holder.

[AndrewIC]

42 minutes ago, Athy said:

Is this really so? If I wanted to pay the insurance on my wife's car, would I not be allowed to?

ABI says so: https://www.abi.org.uk/data-and-resources/tools-and-resources/glossary/insurable-interest/.

 

40 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Similarly, if I was feeling charitable and wanted to licence a boat owned by a friend fallen on hard times, I don't think I can. I'd have to give him or her the money and hope they didn't fritter it away on stuff like food and fuel....

Yes. Way back when when I bought my boat, the owner was concerned about it being craned out for survey (I have no idea what his own insurance arrangements were at that point), so I suggested I insure it for that purpose, and then found that I couldn’t! Of course the yard doing the craning should have been insured, but had anything happened that wasn’t covered by the seller’s insurance, then the seller of the boat would have had to sue the yard.

54 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

But there is no reason not to  arrange the insurance to start on the date  you will take ownership.

Yes, that would be sensible.

[Phoebeg543]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you know how to ensure that the seller is the owner, and is entitled to sell the boat ?

Is there anything other than receipt of the previous sale I should ask to see? 

[robtheplod]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you know how to ensure that the seller is the owner, and is entitled to sell the boat ?

I thought there wasn't a way, well a 100% reliable way?

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Phoebeg543 said:

Is there anything other than receipt of the previous sale I should ask to see? 

 

Yes.

 

Try and find out if the seller is who he says he is (name, address, driving licence) not easy to do,

Can you meet him at his / her home and go with them to wherever the boat is ?

If not, why not ?

 

Ask for any of the 'boats papers' which will hopefully include the last Bill of Sale, copies of insurance documents, copies of mooring agreements, service records etc etc - are they in his name ?

 

There have been one or two instances of posts / threads on the forum by people who have had their boat stolen and it later turns out that it was a 'bad split up' and their partner has sold it without the 'other half' knowing about it. It is not common but does happen.

 

Just 'chat away' with the seller and try and identify his / her circumstances - "are you married, have you got kids, do they like being on the boat, will your partner miss having the boat etc etc etc."

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I thought there wasn't a way, well a 100% reliable way?

 

 

There isn't unless it is Part 1 registered.

But there are things you can do to reduce the risk.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[LadyG]

8 hours ago, Phoebeg543 said:

Hi, can I just check how to buy a boat which sounds silly but I've realised I don't know the running order. Do I buy the boat (private sale so just bank transfer and get them to sign a bill of sale type document?) then get insurance then get the crt licence and then the sellers contact crt and tell them the boat is mine?

RYA have a proformer B of S on their website, but has the vendor got one from the time he purchased the boat, as you want a paper trail if possible.

[PD1964]

  You could just name the boat and location, I’m sure someone on here may know it and send you info via a PM on the boat/owner. 
  Or just put a link to the Sale Ad if there is one.

  You say Private Sale, do you have any links with friends of the owner?

[Barneyp]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yes.

 

Try and find out if the seller is who he says he is (name, address, driving licence) not easy to do,

Can you meet him at his / her home and go with them to wherever the boat is ?

If not, why not ?

 

Ask for any of the 'boats papers' which will hopefully include the last Bill of Sale, copies of insurance documents, copies of mooring agreements, service records etc etc - are they in his name ?

 

There have been one or two instances of posts / threads on the forum by people who have had their boat stolen and it later turns out that it was a 'bad split up' and their partner has sold it without the 'other half' knowing about it. It is not common but does happen.

 

Just 'chat away' with the seller and try and identify his / her circumstances - "are you married, have you got kids, do they like being on the boat, will your partner miss having the boat etc etc etc."

 

 

 

 

 

There isn't unless it is Part 1 registered.

But there are things you can do to reduce the risk.

If you can find the seller on Facebook it may give some evidence of ownership. E.g. pictures of them on/with the boat, posts relating to the boat etc. If these aren't just from the last few days or weeks it is a good indication they own the boat, also may give some idea about who else may have an interest in the boat and if the seller maybe trying to sell without there knowledge 

[agg221]

Having bought our boat privately just over a year ago, a couple of things to add/reaffirm.

 

Finding the seller on Facebook is a good idea. Depending on what they do/did for a living, you may also be able to find them in other ways - searching by name on Companies House (free), cross-referencing on LinkedIn and then a simple Google search. If they show up on Facebook with relatives' names, you can check them against the same location which is an alternative way of confirming the address. Even a Google Streetview search can be useful as it will show the address. This isn't a full-on stalking operation, just 10-15mins of searching to confirm that they are who they say they are and live where they say they do. This is of course a bit more difficult if they live on the boat!

 

Private sales of inland boats are surprisingly lax. You don't technically need anything at all, I have bought four boats, none of which had any paperwork relating to previous owners. I created a Bill of Sale from the RYA template, deleting the lines which did not apply. This is a useful document as it basically states that the seller has the right to sell it to you, and that anything which happened prior to your purchase is their problem (such as unpaid loans secured against it) and anything that happens after the purchase is your problem. Separately, I created receipts for all four boats, two of which were for a nominal pound. This was a hand-written receipt from the previous owner stating that they had received the sum of £1 in full payment for the boat XXX, with a basic description. Again, it's not foolproof but it does give a certain level of protection in demonstrating that you were acting in good faith.

 

There is no electronic record of this information, unlike say Land Registry or DVLA, so the documents are quite important to keep the original physical copy safe and take a digital record.

 

If the boat is more modern there is a whole load of documentation which should in theory exist in respect of the Recreational Craft Directive but I can't comment on that, given that the newest boat I have bought was built in 1938!

 

Alec

[Arthur Marshall]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you know how to ensure that the seller is the owner, and is entitled to sell the boat ?

 

That's one thing that really isn't worth worrying about.

Yes, it happens once in a blue moon, usually to someone buying a remarkably cheap boat moored on the towpath. If the bloke selling it knows where the pump that empties the shower is and how many batteries its got, you can be fairly sure it's his. If he's got a three year old BSS certificate with his name on, you can be sure of it (though Alan will probably point out he could have run it off himself with a computer and a printer).

Let's face it, you don't ask the bloke in the cake shop if it's really his cake,  do you?

It's just Alan scaremongering again. He likes doing that.

Most people on here have bought boats, some of them quite a few over the years. No-one has been sold a stolen one yet. I bought mine on a handshake, no idea who the bloke was and nobody's come back for it yet - most of us did it like that thirty years ago.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's just Alan scaremongering again. He likes doing that.

 

Also, answering a question that wasn't asked. Alan likes to do that too, especially if can be made scary. 

[captain birdseye]

23 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I suspect it could be paid from your personal bank account but that would not make you the policy holder. As the owner of the vehicle your wife would have to be the policy holder.

Husband / Wife is the only instance where you can take out insurance on a car you don't own