Reliable Internet Solution Needed for Video Calls While CCing

[MtB]

36 minutes ago, IanD said:

Not if you go under trees or bridges of somewhere with a poor view of the sky, obviously... 😉

 

And as everyone here knows, all canal banks are regularly cleared of trees. See a tree and CRT will be there in a flash to get rid of it if you ring them...

 

 

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

And as everyone here knows, all canal banks are regularly cleared of trees. See a tree and CRT will be there in a flash to get rid of it if you ring them...

 

 

I assume boaters are at least as intelligent as RV users who realise full well that Starlink won't work if they park (or drive) under trees, because they all know that and it says it in the documentation and the manual...

 

OTOH we all know what assume does, don't we? And going by some posters on here, an assumption of universal boater intelligence may be particularly risky... 😉

 

[alias]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

If you're out in the open (like most canals, especially in rural areas) then Starlink RV is perfectly capable of providing coverage (almost) everywhere when moving, according to actual users.

 

Not if you go under trees or bridges of somewhere with a poor view of the sky, obviously... 😉

 

Perhaps I should have specified the terrestrial mobile networks; I had thought it was obvious from the context.

[IanD]

Just now, alias said:

 

Perhaps I should have specified the terrestrial mobile networks; I had thought it was obvious from the context.

Given that my post you quoted from was specifically talking about Starlink and didn't even mention mobile, that's not obvious... 😉

[reg]

On 03/12/2022 at 12:40, Machpoint005 said:

^^ Wot he said.

 

The provision of reliable 21st century communications on an 18th century transport network isn't a priority for telecomms companies. Why would it be?  

Fair point well made as my old boss use to say.

[alias]

23 minutes ago, IanD said:

Given that my post you quoted from was specifically talking about Starlink and didn't even mention mobile, that's not obvious... 😉

 

Look again, I quoted MtB... 😜

 

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/116929-reliable-internet-solution-needed-for-video-calls-while-ccing/&do=findComment&comment=2864628

 

[Motters79]

Im not sure what the difference is between Starlink for RVs and and the residential version. Seems like the exact same hardware, so why os it £20 per month more expensive? 

[GUMPY]

3 hours ago, IanD said:

5G router (NR5103E) with Three (if they have decent coverage where you are) and connect a 4x4 MIMO external antenna (NR5103E has 4 antenna ports).

Looks interesting, might have to see what I can blag from them when my contract comes up for renewal in February🤔

[IanD]

51 minutes ago, Motters79 said:

Im not sure what the difference is between Starlink for RVs and and the residential version. Seems like the exact same hardware, so why os it £20 per month more expensive? 

 

I don't think the hardware -- or maybe the firmware -- is exactly the same even of it looks it from the outside, because with the standard version the dish is fixed and it only has to track relatively slowly-moving (in elevation/azimuth) satellites, the RV one also has to deal with a (potentially) rapidly-moving/rotating dish so needs much faster phased-array beam-steering. Whether this is a hardware change or a firmware one doesn't really matter, it's delivering something extra so Starlink can charge more.

 

I believe there are also system-wide issues with roaming between areas which don't exist if you stay in a fixed position (postcode), it has to be able to transfer your "home" location as you move -- again this may just be a software change, but that doesn't matter -- if you don't pay the RV premium, you may not be allowed to roam and stay logged on.

 

If you think that a different version of the system/software with extra features should cost the same just because it tuns on the same hardware, try telling that to any mobile/tech/software/app company... 😉

[IanD]

27 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Looks interesting, might have to see what I can blag from them when my contract comes up for renewal in February🤔

Just make sure it's the newer Zyxel NR5103E (squarish box, 4 antenna ports) not the older ZTE (rectangular box, 2 antenna ports) which is slower -- Three launched the new one a couple of months ago but recently temporarily switched back because of firmware problems stopping 5G working with some basestations, I believe these are now resolved, see here:

 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/new-three-5g-hub-nr5103e.38663/page-25

Edited December 6, 2022 by IanD

[Motters79]

4 hours ago, IanD said:

 

The cheapest way to try this would be to get a 1-month rolling contract (£24) for their 5G router (NR5103E) with Three (if they have decent coverage where you are) and connect a 4x4 MIMO external antenna (NR5103E has 4 antenna ports).

I take this router will connext to 4G/3G if no 5G is available? 

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Motters79 said:

I take this router will connext to 4G/3G if no 5G is available? 

Yes. It's also got higher speeds on 4G than a lot of older routers, because it can aggregate more carriers (if the mast has them).

 

1-month contract is £24 (including router), 24-month one is £10 for 6 months the £20 for the remaining 18 (for unlimited data).

 

4x4 MIMO external antennas are still not cheap though, well over £100, the highest-gain roof-mounting one is £200... 😞

 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by IanD

[GUMPY]

36 minutes ago, IanD said:

firmware problems stopping 5G working with some basestations, I believe these are now resolved

My 5g CPE Pro occasionally forgets about 5g just a quick power down and up and it comes back on.

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Loddon said:

My 5g CPE Pro occasionally forgets about 5g just a quick power down and up and it comes back on.

This was worse, failing to find 5G at all even when a mobile phone right next to it could... 😞

 

Seems to have been fixed now though, so I guess Three will switch back to offering the NR5103E shortly.

[Motters79]

I've currently got my eye on the Teltonika RUTX12. Its expensive but looks to be very capable. Its a dual sim Cat 6 but rather than just failing over from one sim to the other it can use both SIMultaneously (see what i did there 😆). Basically its 2 routers in one making the most of 2 network providers when the going gets tough. 

 

Just reseaching what antenna could be best. They do the QuSpot antennas for these but I'm not keen on it being outside the boat. Would I then need a wireless access point or would its own built in wifi be able to reach inside? Also I'd be worried it'd overheat in summer. Security of the unit is another concern.

 

 

[rusty69]

Please standby. The font of all theoretical knowledge will be along to answer your question shortly.

[IanD]

44 minutes ago, Motters79 said:

I've currently got my eye on the Teltonika RUTX12. Its expensive but looks to be very capable. Its a dual sim Cat 6 but rather than just failing over from one sim to the other it can use both SIMultaneously (see what i did there 😆). Basically its 2 routers in one making the most of 2 network providers when the going gets tough. 

 

Just reseaching what antenna could be best. They do the QuSpot antennas for these but I'm not keen on it being outside the boat. Would I then need a wireless access point or would its own built in wifi be able to reach inside? Also I'd be worried it'd overheat in summer. Security of the unit is another concern.

 

 

 

Don't believe everything that you see on the internet... 😉

 

I too looked at the RUTX12 earlier this year in the belief that if could use both modems at the same time, and it turns out not to be true -- as well as being poorly reviewed:

 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/providers-and-required-bands-for-uk-4g-5g-coverage-speed-for-narrowboat.38557/#post-279548

 

(and before anyone asks, the guy who replied really *is* an expert on this -- *much* more so than me -- including having detailed knowledge about what's inside the various routers on the market)

 

All the "two modems" means is that it can do rapid failover switching when the one in use drops the signal -- which is pretty much what any dual-SIM router/AP can do. The only difference may be (speculating here...) that it can switch over faster, but this is unlikely to be helpful for a boat installation.

 

There are other dual-SIM routers available, some of which are 4x4 MIMO and 5G, but again they're not cheap -- £495+VAT for the Proroute NR550 that I mentioned in the above thread.

 

14 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Please standby. The font of all theoretical knowledge will be along to answer your question shortly.

 

Indeed, because unlike you I already spent a lot of time researching this, and digging into the reality of it as opposed to the hype.

 

Perhaps you could do the same, and try to be helpful instead of sniping? 😉

Edited December 7, 2022 by IanD

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

 

Indeed, because unlike you I already spent a lot of time researching this, and digging into the reality as opposed to the hype -- which isn't easy, but it helps if you actually understand how these systems work.

 

Perhaps you could do the same, and try to be helpful instead of sniping? 😉

 

And unlike you, I have over 23 years of actual experience living on a boat, and also own a dual sim Teltonika router and 1000W of solar panels. Seems you realise the comment was actually addressed at you though without me having named anyone.

 

Now, that is a dig.Feel free to pull me up on that one if you wish.

Edited December 7, 2022 by rusty69
1000, not 100

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

And unlike you, I have over 23 years of actual experience living on a boat, and also own a dual sim Teltonika router and 100W of solar panels. Seems you realise the comment was actually addressed at you though without me having named anyone.

 

Now, that is a dig.Feel free to pull me up on that one if you wish.

 

And yet you fail to realise how the Teltonika dual-SIM routers actually function. Colour me surprised... 😉

 

I'll repeat -- if you're such an expert, why don't *you* make a helpful post instead of sniping?

 

Then if what you post is correct other people might do the same -- and if it's not, point out the fact. It's called grown-up debate/discussion, maybe you should try it sometime... 🙂

Edited December 7, 2022 by IanD

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

And yet you fail to realise how the Teltonika dual-SIM routers actually function. Colour me surprised... 😉

 

I'll repeat -- if you're such an expert, why don't *you* make a helpful post instead of sniping?

 

Then if what you post is correct other people might do the same -- and if it's not, point out the fact. It's called grown-up debate/discussion, maybe you should try it sometime... 🙂

If you read back through this thread and the solar thread of yesterday, you may see that I have made many helpful comments based on actual experience. Do you disagree?

[IanD]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

If you read back through this thread and the solar thread of yesterday, you may see that I have made many helpful comments based on actual experience. Do you disagree?

No. But your last one -- which I rose to, and shouldn't have -- was sniping, pure and simple. And your "I know better than you" reply didn't help, given its content.

 

Do you disagree with what I said in my reply about the RUTX12? Please keep it factual... 🙂

Edited December 7, 2022 by IanD

[rusty69]

 

1 minute ago, IanD said:

No. But your last one -- which I rose to, and shouldn't have -- was sniping, pure and simple. And your "I know better than you" reply didn't help, given its content.

 

Do you disagree with what I said in my reply about the RUTX12? Please keep it factual... 🙂

 

 

I have never claimed to know better, but I do have extensive real world experience of these things,including a teltonika router. Why you think I don't know how to operate it having done so successfully for a number of years is beyond me.

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

I have never claimed to know better, but I do have extensive real world experience of these things,including a teltonika router. Why you think I don't know how to operate it having done so successfully for a number of years is beyond me.

 

Please don't put words into my mouth.

 

I said that the RUTX12 didn't operate as is often claimed (and in the posted video) with both SIMs active *at the same time*.

 

Many people own equipment that they've had for many years and think they know how it works, and in a lot of cases they're wrong. You may or may not fall into this category, but your reply suggested that you didn't understand this issue. If you do, great -- and in this case you could still have helped, not sniped... 😉

 

Do you think that the RUTX12 (and your Teltonika?) just does rapid switchover, or that -- as the video erroneously claims -- it can use both SIMs at the same time?

Edited December 7, 2022 by IanD

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

Please don't put words into my mouth.

 

I said that the RUTX12 didn't operate as is often claimed (and in the posted video) with both SIMs active *at the same time*.

 

Many people own equipment that they've had for many years and think they know how it works, and in a lot of cases they're wrong. You may or may not fall into this category, but your reply suggested that you didn't understand this issue. If you do, great -- and in this case you could still have helped, not sniped... 😉

 

Do you think that the ROTX12 (and your Teltonika?) just does rapid switchover, or that -- as the video erroneously claims -- it can use both SIMs at the same time?

Quote

And yet you fail to realise how the Teltonika dual-SIM routers actually function

I own one.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

I own one.

I'm well aware of that. Many people own a mobile phone but don't actually understand how it works.

 

Do you think that the RUTX12 (and your Teltonika?) just does rapid switchover, or that -- as the video erroneously claims -- it can use both SIMs at the same time?

 

(before answering you might want to dig into the thread I posted and follow the links to the discussion about the RUTX12 and OpenWrt...)

Edited December 7, 2022 by IanD