Reliable Internet Solution Needed for Video Calls While CCing

[johnmck]

 

We have had this set up for several years now. My partner worked off the boat throughout last summer, mainly on teams calls. Still works for us.😋

Edited December 3, 2022 by johnmck
Update

[IanD]

4 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Have you got a link to the panorama one please, sounds exactly what I need if I can get 6-8 dbi on B20 (800 Mhz).

I posted a link earlier in the thread. The only problem with it is the cost, just over £200... 😞

Edited December 3, 2022 by IanD

[GUMPY]

4 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Have you got a link to the panorama one please, sounds exactly what I need if I can get 6-8 dbi on B20 (800 Mhz).

Problem is that Three use B20 for 3g/4g single frequency working and B1 and B3 for carrier aggregated 4g.

So faster speeds are not available on B20🤭

If you want speed you need to look at B1/B3 rather than B20.

[RichM]

When I lived on a boat I used to use a dual router sim and used both EE and Three. It would switch between the two based on coverage.

 

If I still lived on a boat, I'd probably use Starlink and 4G/5G for backup. Not cheap, but next gen stuff.

[MtB]

16 minutes ago, RichM said:

When I lived on a boat I used to use a dual router sim and used both EE and Three. It would switch between the two based on coverage.

 

If I still lived on a boat, I'd probably use Starlink and 4G/5G for backup. Not cheap, but next gen stuff.

 

I too was wondering if Starlink was available here yet. Seems it is, for £75 a month and £460 set-up fee.

 

So my mind then wondered about whether it can see through trees, give a lot of canal is in the shadow of trees. And it seems it can't. A clear view of the satellites is needed...

 

"Your Starlink needs a clear view of the sky so it can stay connected with satellites as they move overhead. Objects that obstruct the connection between your Starlink and the satellite, such as a tree branch, pole, or roof, will cause service interruptions. "

 

https://support.starlink.com/?topic=4badc520-cf8e-b3aa-dd49-b731686d5bf1 

Edited December 4, 2022 by MtB

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, johnmck said:

 

We have had this set up for several years now. My partner worked off the boat throughout last summer, mainly on teams calls. Still works for us.😋

If anyone wants one of these, I have an unused/ new one, with cables.

[Ian Mac]

You need to go for Satellite broadband, which is not cheap circa £500 setup cost and £70 per month for a high data high, reliable mobile link, and that is not always possible Trees kill the signal. You will need a golf ball on the roof which is about 3ft sphere.
Canals are not a high priority location of the phone companies and as they swap over to high speeds 5G 6G, etc, the reception will become worse, in rural area's.

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, Ian Mac said:

You will need a golf ball on the roof which is about 3ft sphere.

 

Not any more it seems. The starlink website says you get this. Probably nearly as big though, and a fine ol' line trap when handling a boat:

[rusty69]

5 hours ago, IanD said:

I posted a link earlier in the thread. The only problem with it is the cost, just over £200... 😞

So you did. Apologies. It will be interesting to compare spec sheet data to real world experience should you ever buy one.*

 

 

*Dear panorama. Should you wish to send me one FOC, I will happily test it in the field (well, muddy ditch to be more accurate) and do a review of your antenna. 

 

Please send to:

Mr Rusty 

Muddy ditch

Near delapidated Bridge. 

Thank you. 

 

[rusty69]

5 hours ago, Loddon said:

Problem is that Three use B20 for 3g/4g single frequency working and B1 and B3 for carrier aggregated 4g.

So faster speeds are not available on B20🤭

If you want speed you need to look at B1/B3 rather than B20.

Pretty sure my nearest transmitter only uses b20. As I understand it, the lower frequency signal propogates further than the higher one, so being some way from a mast I am unlikely to receive that higher frequency anyway unless I start messing around with directional anntenas. 

 

Areas with marginal signal strength seem to require a lot of non scientific trial and error. Usually consisting on spending ever increasing amounts on different routers/antennas and providers whilst covering every available surface with tin foil in the hope of receiving a reflected signal. 

 

It may be more cost effective just to move the boat to a different location.

 

Still, as I get older, loosing my hair, there is a strong possibility of receiving a reflected signal off my bald head. 

[GUMPY]

4 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Pretty sure my nearest transmitter only uses b20. As I understand it, the lower frequency signal propogates further than the higher one, so being some way from a mast I am unlikely to receive that higher frequency anyway unless I start messing around with directional anntenas. 

That's your problem in a nutshell.

It's highly unlikely get MIMO with just B20 so therefore your speed will only ever be half that available with MIMO.

The only way out is to move or hope that directional high gain antennas will enable you to lock onto another cell. I have B20 disabled on mine using Huactrl so that it's forced to look for B1/B3. That's also the reason I ditched the 535 as I could no longer do that after a firmware update, the 818 is prevented from updating it's firmware so I can keep control. If Huactrl has stopped working then LTE manager is an alternative but not as good.

I assume that you have used Huactrl/Cellmapper to confirm what cell you are connected to where it is and what options are available.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Loddon

[rusty69]

18 minutes ago, Loddon said:

That's your problem in a nutshell.

It's highly unlikely get MIMO with just B20 so therefore your speed will only ever be half that available with MIMO.

The only way out is to move or hope that directional high gain antennas will enable you to lock onto another cell. I have B20 disabled on mine using Huactrl so that it's forced to look for B1/B3. That's also the reason I ditched the 535 as I could no longer do that after a firmware update, the 818 is prevented from updating it's firmware so I can keep control. If Huactrl has stopped working then LTE manager is an alternative but not as good.

I assume that you have used Huactrl/Cellmapper to confirm what cell you are connected to where it is and what options are available.

 

 

 

Yes, I have Huactrl and a site I look at for transmitter information, though understand it may not have all the transmitters on it. I have tried disabling b20 using the Huactrl app. This is now a feature in the paid version, but I still have an older version of it. 

 

I think the trouble is also related to the number of people using the cell,as you suggested earlier. The SNR is always much better in the early hours of the morning, where 10mb/s download speeds can be seen. That would suit me fine, if it were consistent throughout the day, but it isn't. 

 

 

To clarify the above statement, I don't think only the b20 frequency is available from the mast, but it is the one that gives the fastest download. I guess because the other frequencies produce a lower signal strength due to distance. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by rusty69

[GUMPY]

Huactrl uses information from the actual cell you are connected to so it has to be up to date provided you are connected.

If you DM me your location, service provider and the 4 digit cell/mast number from Huactrl I will have a poke about in cell mapper to see if there are any alternatives.

Below is the coverage at my marina we are also between cell 1,7,72 from mast 6467, however we get no signal from the mast 6466 at the bottom of the picture.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Loddon

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Huactrl uses information from the actual cell you are connected to so it has to be up to date provided you are connected.

If you DM me your location, service provider and the 4 digit cell/mast number from Huactrl I will have a poke about in cell mapper to see if there are any alternatives.

Below is the coverage at my marina we are also between cell 1,7,72 from mast 6467, however we get no signal from the mast 6466 at the bottom of the picture.

I really meant cell mapper, not huactrl. I doubt it is as up to date as it could be. 

 

Thanks for the offer, but I have tried pretty much all frequencies and options short of trying yet another antenna, be it a higher gain or a directional one. 

 

 

[GUMPY]

If you click on the tower you can bring up tower info that will tell you whether it's up to date or not, of course it takes a while for new towers to be added 

[robtheplod]

9 hours ago, Ian Mac said:

You need to go for Satellite broadband, which is not cheap circa £500 setup cost and £70 per month for a high data high, reliable mobile link, and that is not always possible Trees kill the signal. You will need a golf ball on the roof which is about 3ft sphere.
Canals are not a high priority location of the phone companies and as they swap over to high speeds 5G 6G, etc, the reception will become worse, in rural area's.

not sure how good these cope with Video Conferencing?  any lag will be very noticeable....

[IanD]

2 hours ago, robtheplod said:

not sure how good these cope with Video Conferencing?  any lag will be very noticeable....

Many people use Starlink for exactly that with no problems, they're in LEO just over 500km up so the latency is quite good -- about 60ms IIRC. And the dishes are small flat phased arrays, not a 3' diameter golfball.

 

But they won't work under trees, so tough look if you're moored there... 😞

 

I will be using the Panorama antenna, but of course with no alternative to compare it to this won't tell people much... 😉

Edited December 4, 2022 by IanD

[Motters79]

On 03/12/2022 at 18:55, MtB said:

 

 

We might as well save our breaths. No-ones listening, not even the OP!

 

 

I was listening. Just a busy weekend and a lot of information to try and get my head around. A lot of the equipment discussed here is a bit more complicated than my simple Huawei R216  where I simply plug in the the antenna and phone charger lead and I'm off. 

[Motters79]

On 03/12/2022 at 19:02, rusty69 said:

Probably no Internet signal. 

Haha yeah I was asking for that. Actually the internet is reasonable at the moment as regards watching Netflix, streaming radio, general browsing. My missus is currently going into town to use a workspace at the moment after a disastrous day last week where she couldn't do any of her online therapy sessions from the boat. This is whats so frustrating, or surrent set up seems fine for everything but video conferecing on Teams.

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, Motters79 said:

Haha yeah I was asking for that. Actually the internet is reasonable at the moment as regards watching Netflix, streaming radio, general browsing. My missus is currently going into town to use a workspace at the moment after a disastrous day last week where she couldn't do any of her online therapy sessions from the boat. This is whats so frustrating, or surrent set up seems fine for everything but video conferecing on Teams.

 

Nothing wrong with your simple Huawei, but if it isn't cutting the mustard, you are limited to only a few things:

 

1. Move to a position with better signal strength.

2. Upgrade to a higher gain antenna 2x2 or 4x4 mimo, or reduce the loss on your current one. 

3. Try to connect to  certain bands only and exclude others.

4. Install a directional antenna alongside your omni with the associated faff.

5. Stick your antenna on a pole.

6. Try different providers.

7. Use satellite internet.

8. Get your Mrs to change career

9. Get a different Mrs.

10. Have I missed any?

[Motters79]

17 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

Nothing wrong with your simple Huawei, but if it isn't cutting the mustard, you are limited to only a few things:

 

1. Move to a position with better signal strength.

2. Upgrade to a higher gain antenna 2x2 or 4x4 mimo, or reduce the loss on your current one. 

3. Try to connect to  certain bands only and exclude others.

4. Install a directional antenna alongside your omni with the associated faff.

5. Stick your antenna on a pole.

6. Try different providers.

7. Use satellite internet.

8. Get your Mrs to change career

9. Get a different Mrs.

10. Have I missed any?

 

Nope I think you've covered all bases there 😂

 

I could try all the above maybe except the 'get your Mrs to change career' or 'Get a different Mrs' option 😂 ... Thing is I really like the Mrs I've got and she makes good money in the current career. Most of the other options are fraught with Maximus Fannyingaboutum, and lot of expense still with no guarantee of reliabilty. 

 

Im actually seriously considering trying a Starlink 30 day trial. The kit is quite expensive, and power hungry at 75W average consumption, but, so long as its reliable, it probably gonna cost much the same as current data plans and and workspace rental and fuel for commuting. We might need to get a little suitcase genny to power through the winter months mindyou 🤔

[Rob-M]

I have found my Huawei B818 has worked well for Teams.  I spend a lot of my time in Teams meetings.  I got an external antenna but don't use it as the internal antenna are doing a good job.  Maybe I've been in a strong signal area as I have worked mainly between Stone, Rugeley and Tixall.

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, Motters79 said:

 

Nope I think you've covered all bases there 😂

 

I could try all the above maybe except the 'get your Mrs to change career' or 'Get a different Mrs' option 😂 ... Thing is I really like the Mrs I've got and she makes good money in the current career. Most of the other options are fraught with Maximus Fannyingaboutum, and lot of expense still with no guarantee of reliabilty. 

 

Im actually seriously considering trying a Starlink 30 day trial. The kit is quite expensive, and power hungry at 75W average consumption, but, so long as its reliable, it probably gonna cost much the same as current data plans and and workspace rental and fuel for commuting. We might need to get a little suitcase genny to power through the winter months mindyou 🤔

 

You'll probably need the RV option if you want to be able to move locations and not get locked out, this costs £460 + £95/month. The new "dishes" (they're flat...) consume about 35W, not 75W.

 

With mobile broadband, a 4x4 MIMO 5G router and external antenna will probably give you higher data rates -- not everywhere today, but definitely in future at 700MHz rolls out -- than a 2x2 MIMO 4G one. But is also more expensive... 😞

 

The cheapest way to try this would be to get a 1-month rolling contract (£24) for their 5G router (NR5103E) with Three (if they have decent coverage where you are) and connect a 4x4 MIMO external antenna (NR5103E has 4 antenna ports).

[alias]

On 03/12/2022 at 12:00, MtB said:

 

My understanding is the OP wants this continuous, rock solid, bullet proof-reliable high speed connection for eight hours a day whilst actually cruising along, which could be anywhere. 

 

I don't think it is possible. 

 

 

I agree. When each network quotes percentage coverage they are generally talking about percentage of the population rather than land area. Sparsely populated areas don't get much attention unless within range of a rail line or major road. 

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, alias said:

 

I agree. When each network quotes percentage coverage they are generally talking about percentage of the population rather than land area. Sparsely populated areas don't get much attention unless within range of a rail line or major road. 

 

If you're out in the open (like most canals, especially in rural areas) then Starlink RV is perfectly capable of providing coverage (almost) everywhere when moving, according to actual users.

 

Not if you go under trees or bridges of somewhere with a poor view of the sky, obviously... 😉