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Reliable Internet Solution Needed for Video Calls While CCing


Motters79

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Hello everyone 🖐

 

Can anyone give me some good advice on a quality internet router and antenna set up that will allow my girlfriend to work from our boat while we cruise the cut? She needs to be able to reliably do video conferencing as she runs a speech and language therapy business and has team meetings and online therapy sessions every day. Our current set up, a Huawei R216 with a Panaorama Antennas DMM-7-27-2TS9 just isn't cutting the mustard in a lot of rural locations. Its mostly fine for streaming tv and general internet browsing but it failing to be reliable for video calls. Often gettin under 1mbps upload speeds.

 

Anyone out there got a good set up that is reliable for working from their boat in different loactions where regular video calls are important? 

 

Any good advice based on experience would be much apprecited! 

 

Thanks

 

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Its difficult to get the QoS needed for VC on the cut - very much depends on the providers mast location etc. Many people use the poynting aerials, but at the end of the day it depends on the very best signal to allow QoS... you may have to be quite choosy where you moor!

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8 minutes ago, Motters79 said:

Thats the trouble. We like the rural spots too much! What does QoS mean?

It just Quality of service, where it matters about transmit speeds etc. Some rural locations can have very fast access... its all on where the masts are... might need to go to your providers website and look at their coverage map and add that into your cruising plan!

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It may be worth getting a router that can accept two sim cards on different networks if you are reliant on good internet. An external aerial will help, but if there is no signal to be had,it won't make any difference. You probably want to check the signal before mooring up. My old Teltonika router would accept two sims from separate providers. I'm sure others do too. 

 

EE has better coverage than most, so that coupled with another provider could help. Failing that, there are satellite providers, but expensive and power hungry. Think Starlink.

 

ETA. I now use a Huawei router with a Poynting xpol antenna. The Teltonika has been relegated to the task of wifi range extender onboard.

 

It may be worth looking at @IanD tips here:

 

 

Edited by rusty69
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1 hour ago, Motters79 said:

Hello everyone 🖐

 

Can anyone give me some good advice on a quality internet router and antenna set up that will allow my girlfriend to work from our boat while we cruise the cut? She needs to be able to reliably do video conferencing as she runs a speech and language therapy business and has team meetings and online therapy sessions every day. Our current set up, a Huawei R216 with a Panaorama Antennas DMM-7-27-2TS9 just isn't cutting the mustard in a lot of rural locations. Its mostly fine for streaming tv and general internet browsing but it failing to be reliable for video calls. Often gettin under 1mbps upload speeds.

 

Anyone out there got a good set up that is reliable for working from their boat in different loactions where regular video calls are important? 

 

Any good advice based on experience would be much apprecited! 

 

Thanks

 

 

You may be able to get better data rates with a newer 4x4 MIMO antenna/router, I can make some suggestions if you're interested (it's what I'll be doing on my boat next year) -- in patricular the antenna, there are much better ones available (but also more expensive). Dual SIM is a great idea, but it'll put your cost up quite a lot both for the equipment and the contracts.

 

If that's not good enough, Starlink is your only real option, but you need deep pockets...

Edited by IanD
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The best 4x4 MIMO omnidirectional antenna I've found for roof mounting on a boat is this one:

 

https://www.co-star.co.uk/16752/4-x-4-mimo-dual-shark-fin-5g-wi-fi-and-gps-antenna/

 

Designed to work on a metal roof, easy to fit, higher gain than any other omni antenna I can find (much better than the one you're using) -- but it's expensive, I was quoted £171.50+VAT (£206) for the short-cable version without GPS or WiFi which aren't needed for a boat, the Wi-Fi will come from an internal router.

 

If you don't want to go dual-SIM and are happy with Three and a contract, their 5G router (the Zyxel NR5103E which is waiting a firmware fix, not the ZTE MC801A which they're currently supplying) is £20/month (24 month contract, with the first 6 months half-price) for unlimited data, or £24/month for a 1-month rolling contract if you want to try it out first -- so no upfront cost.

 

EE have the same router (but more locked-down and with much poorer app control and accessibility) but it's a lot more expensive, £60 upfront + £45/month (18 month contract) for unlimited data. The router has 4 external antenna connections.

 

Or you can buy one for around £300 on eBay and get a SIM from someone like Smarty or another MVNO, £16/month IIRC, or scancom (£12/mo?). But if you're going to do that you could also buy a dual SIM 5G 4x4 MIMO router for not much more...

Edited by IanD
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Also worth remembering that phone signals use both vertical and horizontal polarisation - depending on the nearest mast.  If using an antenna which is cross polarised it copes with both, but if using a  mag mount wire antenna you may get a much better signal if it’s horizontal, but it may need rotating so that the antenna is at right angles to the mast.
If moored in a cutting so your antenna is below or close to ground level you need to raise your antenna, higher is better, and can make a huge difference.

 But of course if you are moored in a poor signal location you will never get a good data rate.

Edited by Chewbacka
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Doesn't this just demonstrate the failings of WFH?

Whilst I appreciate this lady is running her own business and she is the only one to suffer from disruption, there are a number of public servants who encounter such problems who probably just don't bother too much if they cannot work. As their employers/managers  are all 'in the same WFH club', monitoring their performance and efficiency is very poor.

It is the people who rely on their departments for passports, driving licences etc who suffer.

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50 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

If moored in a cutting so your antenna is below or close to ground level you need to raise your antenna, higher is better, and can make a huge difference.

 But of course if you are moored in a poor signal location you will never get a good data rate.

 

My understanding is the OP wants this continuous, rock solid, bullet proof-reliable high speed connection for eight hours a day whilst actually cruising along, which could be anywhere. 

 

I don't think it is possible. 

 

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RUTX11 + QuSpot + a decent wireless access point works well for me

 

The QuSpot contains the router and the antenna outside the boat, and pipes in connection inside the boat to the wireless access point. The advantage of this is that you don't get signal losses over the cable between the antenna and the router, as with a typical setup.

 

You can power the router over the ethernet cable with one of these https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/18090-mikrotik-rbgpoe/

 

I use the Netgear WAX214 as an access point.

Edited by DShK
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1 hour ago, DShK said:

RUTX11 + QuSpot + a decent wireless access point works well for me

 

The QuSpot contains the router and the antenna outside the boat, and pipes in connection inside the boat to the wireless access point. The advantage of this is that you don't get signal losses over the cable between the antenna and the router, as with a typical setup.

 

You can power the router over the ethernet cable with one of these https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/18090-mikrotik-rbgpoe/

 

I use the Netgear WAX214 as an access point.

That looks like a good solution. Although the gain is not fantastic over the frequency range, the saving in loss from not having the cable is a bonus. Am I reading it right that the router is enclosed in the aerial enclosure outside the boat? If so, it sounds like a risky place to leave an expensive router. 

 

I was told my cable has a loss of 0.5 db/m, which is a bit rubbish as the cable is 5m long and the gain on the frequency I use is only 1.5dBi max.

Edited by rusty69
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Have a look at broadbandgo.com they do multi network sim cards I'm testing one at the moment, so far, rather impressed...

 

Edit: You'll obviously still want a router and antenna. Have a look at 3grouterstore.co.uk and look up 'Teltonika RUT955 '

Edited by Quattrodave
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2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

That looks like a good solution. Although the gain is not fantastic over the frequency range, the saving in loss from not having the cable is a bonus. Am I reading it right that the router is enclosed in the aerial enclosure outside the boat? If so, it sounds like a risky place to leave an expensive router. 

 

I was told my cable has a loss of 0.5 db/m, which is a bit rubbish as the cable is 5m long and the gain on the frequency I use is only 1.5dBi max.

Yeah, the router is inside the aerial enclosure. Could be risky if a thief is willing to just start pulling any old random bits off the boat (unlikely they will know that is it worth something). Mine has a canvas black "hat" that covers it, so it looks much less obvious (and nicer).

 

As a bonus this router has a lot (much more than the average person would ever need) of features - one nice being it has a geolocation ringfence feature - so you can get a text etc if your boat is moved when you aren't there.

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2 minutes ago, DShK said:

Yeah, the router is inside the aerial enclosure. Could be risky if a thief is willing to just start pulling any old random bits off the boat (unlikely they will know that is it worth something). Mine has a canvas black "hat" that covers it, so it looks much less obvious (and nicer).

 

As a bonus this router has a lot (much more than the average person would ever need) of features - one nice being it has a geolocation ringfence feature - so you can get a text etc if your boat is moved when you aren't there.

 

Sounds good. I used to use a Teltonika RUT 955, but didn't use most of its features, so down graded to a huawei.

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2 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

Have a look at broadbandgo.com they do multi network sim cards I'm testing one at the moment, so far, rather impressed...

 

Edit: You'll obviously still want a router and antenna. Have a look at 3grouterstore.co.uk and look up 'Teltonika RUT955 '

The RUT955 is an okay option, not quite as good at the RUTX11 as it is CAT4 rather than CAT6. You may argue that the theoretical max speed isn't something to worry about, but afaik the real world performance of CAT6 is better than CAT4.

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10 minutes ago, DShK said:

Yeah, the router is inside the aerial enclosure. Could be risky if a thief is willing to just start pulling any old random bits off the boat (unlikely they will know that is it worth something). Mine has a canvas black "hat" that covers it, so it looks much less obvious (and nicer).

 

As a bonus this router has a lot (much more than the average person would ever need) of features - one nice being it has a geolocation ringfence feature - so you can get a text etc if your boat is moved when you aren't there.

Do note though that the antennas (2 of them) inside the QuSpot are pretty low gain (2-4dBi) and don't cover all the UK bands, especially the newer 5G ones.

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8 minutes ago, IanD said:

Do note though that the antennas (2 of them) inside the QuSpot are pretty low gain (2-4dBi) and don't cover all the UK bands, especially the newer 5G ones.

I reckon the gain is a red herring in a lot of cases. The main benefit I can see of an aerial, even if it is low gain, is getting the signal into the boat. If that means putting the router outside the boat to gain a couple of dbi then it can only be a bonus (as long as it don't get stolen).

 

I suspect 5G is pretty scarce in most canal locations apart form the big cities anyway, and pretty redundant if a good LTE signal is available  that cover your requirements.

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3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I reckon the gain is a red herring in a lot of cases. The main benefit I can see of an aerial, even if it is low gain, is getting the signal into the boat. If that means putting the router outside the boat to gain a couple of dbi then it can only be a bonus (as long as it don't get stolen).

 

I suspect 5G is pretty scarce in most canal locations apart form the big cities anyway, and pretty redundant if a good LTE signal is available  that cover your requirements.

My point is that having the router in with the antenna outside the boat does reduce cable losses, but if the antenna is low gain (2-4dB like this one) you can end up with less signal at the router than a higher-gain external antenna (like the Panorama which is 6-8dB) with a router inside the boat, even with long cables. If you can position the antenna on the roof right above the router inside (like I'm going to) you don't even need long cables. A few dB more signal level can make a big difference in areas with marginal signal strength.

 

5G is mainly concentrated in towns and cities now but is expanding, and in rural areas is also starting to use the low-frequency (ex-TV) bands around 700MHz which have much longer range. Where there is 5G cover the data rates are a lot higher than 4G, both because of better MIMO use, more bandwidth, and more advanced modulation.

 

LTE/4G does have more coverage today and 5G gear is still expensive, so the choice is either buy 4G kit now (2x2 MIMO suggested) and upgrade to 5G in future (4x4 MIMO suggested) when the price drops and coverage improves, or buy 5G now -- the total cost is probably similar in both cases.

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19 minutes ago, IanD said:

you can end up with less signal at the router than a higher-gain external antenna (like the Panorama which is 6-8dB)

Have you got a link to the panorama one please, sounds exactly what I need if I can get 6-8 dbi on B20 (800 Mhz).

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6 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

^^ Wot he said.

 

The provision of reliable 21st century communications on an 18th century transport network isn't a priority for telecomms companies. Why would it be?  

 

 

We might as well save our breaths. No-ones listening, not even the OP!

 

 

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