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A painting to identify


Heartland

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Attached is a painting of what seems to be a river lock by John Horace Hooper, said to be from 1896 and called the Old Lock. It may be a depiction of a lock on the Thames or a connecting waterway.

 

There is a water mill shown on the left with either a breast shot or undershot wheel.

 

With all paintings there is the element of artistic licence, but how accurate is it ?

 

 

Old Lock.jpg

Edited by Heartland
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Perhaps an imitation of Constable's Dedham lock and mill painting. The wheel being added to make it look more interesting.

 

Or it is on the river Wey.

 

Constable:
 

N02661_10.jpg

 

I don't know about painting but it seems plausible that if there was a famous popular painting one might consider copying it and altering some of the details in order to sell some paintings.

Edited by magnetman
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28 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

I don't know about painting but it seems plausible that if there was a famous popular painting one might consider copying it and altering some of the details in order to sell some paintings

That’s a good call. But I think there are too many differences, I reckon this is a different lock.

Constable for sure set a style of landscape painting that other painters emulated. But looking (glancing really) at Hooper’s paintings, I’ve not heard of him before, I think he did his own thing. And later became more inspired by the impressionists.

 


My location was based on the church with a distinctive tower.

I simply googled churches on the Thames because Hooper painted along there.

 

I guess by late 19th century all mills had a lock by its side?

So it could be anywhere on the upper Thames?

 

 

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If you change the lock house for a water mill it could be Cookham lock from downstream.

 

Oil_on_Canvas_Old_Cookham_Lock_as706a256

 

Oil_on_Canvas_Old_Cookham_Lock_as706a256

 

 

The church in the background is not far off.

 

I can't think of any locks on the River which had a mill right beside the lock like that. Usually they are more distant. Poetic license me thinks.

 

River Wey seems an interesting possibility.

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12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If you change the lock house for a water mill it could be Cookham lock from downstream.

 

Oil_on_Canvas_Old_Cookham_Lock_as706a256

 

Oil_on_Canvas_Old_Cookham_Lock_as706a256

 

 

The church in the background is not far off.

 

I can't think of any locks on the River which had a mill right beside the lock like that. Usually they are more distant. Poetic license me thinks.

 

River Wey seems an interesting possibility.


Are they Hooper’s paintings?

Edited by Goliath
Not that it matters so much. Just interested. Don’t look like them.
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The OP was about where the picture is rather than the artist.

 

As for Stanley Spencer he did a good job of identifying the fact that going out on a small boat on the River is the best thing since bread never mind the sliced stuff.

 

unbearable.

 

 

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Just now, magnetman said:

The OP was about where the picture is rather than the artist.

 

As for Stanley Spencer he did a good job of identifying the fact that going out on a small boat on the River is the best thing since bread never mind the sliced stuff.

 

unbearable.

 

 


yea, but it’s good to skirt around a bit and look at paintings by others 👍

 

so you don’t like Stanley Spencer?

or you don’t like sliced bread?

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Never trust a painting to be an accurate presentation of reality. Such romantic art will be full of 'artistic licence', not to fool the unwary, but to present an image that can be added to, or removed from the eye of the viewer for the simple purpose of depicting 'art' as the artist wishes. Much like the boats in the photographic competition entry debated earlier this year. (Or was it last?).

 

Away from romantic art, is the depiction of something done to please the artist in an attempt to copy reality:

 

764277482_March67.jpg.f95d3f3a42beda33d71fb3453ebb3e40.jpg

 

41716252_IvaatClass2(Small).JPG.2a7b51234d9b8b039e4885b9894e85aa.JPG

 

This is a scraper board effort, where black ink is scraped away to reveal the white background. The subject appeared in a Railway magazine in 1976 and looked a likely candidate.

 

 

Edited by Derek R.
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5 minutes ago, Goliath said:


yea, but it’s good to skirt around a bit and look at paintings by others 👍

 

so you don’t like Stanley Spencer?

or you don’t like sliced bread?

I like Spencer, not keen on sliced bread but overall I prefer spending endless hours going up and down the River in a small boat around Cookham.

 

I'll be walking past the Spencer gallery in about 3 hours time and again tomorrow morning around 10. Do like Cookham.

Edited by magnetman
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28 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

Never trust a painting to be an accurate presentation of reality. Such romantic art will be full of 'artistic licence', not to fool the unwary, but to present an image that can be added to, or removed from the eye of the viewer for the simple purpose of depicting 'art' as the artist wishes. Much like the boats in the photographic competition entry debated earlier this year. (Or was it last?).

 

Away from romantic art, is the depiction of something done to please the artist in an attempt to copy reality:

 

764277482_March67.jpg.f95d3f3a42beda33d71fb3453ebb3e40.jpg

 

41716252_IvaatClass2(Small).JPG.2a7b51234d9b8b039e4885b9894e85aa.JPG

 

This is a scraper board effort, where black ink is scraped away to reveal the white background. The subject appeared in a Railway magazine in 1976 and looked a likely candidate.

 

 

I’m not sure what you’re saying. 
Are you suggesting a photographer is a more truthful artist?

Edited by Goliath
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No Glenn. Art takes on many appearances, from brushed on paints to metalwork, plaster of paris to cardboard and wood. They are creations of the human spirit and the skills therein.

Photography is also a form of art. I have a book of Jane Bowns (or is it Bowens) black and white images that are highly artistic. The photographs of Sonia Rolt also merit artistic flair in depicting a way of life now virtually gone.

 

But what is "truthful art"? Can such a thing exist? Does it need to exist? Or is it something an artist does to reflect an object or event simply to see if - he can?

 

The black and white photograph of a Class 2 Ivaat loco making up a train in the early hours has an artistic quality due to the darkness and the reflected flashlight on the steam, it creates a subtle drama. It was this dramatic image that I attempted to reproduce - not because one was better than the other, but because it was a challenge well suited to scraperboard.

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7 hours ago, Heartland said:

 

 

Old Lock.jpg

The boat looks a bit Dutch. Tjalks have that stem post design. I wonder if it is not from Englandland. Or it is from Englandland and has some influence around the boat design.

 

Not all that clear as to whether the woman is wearing clogs. I think she might be.

The 'oss looks a bit furrin too.

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In Goliath's post of a second version the lock itself does look pretty much identical, even with the same bent balance beams, but the building has been turned through 90 degrees and there is no church in the background. The woman might be wearing clogs, but that was common in England too back in the day. The bow of the barge does resemble a tjalk, but the landscape has much more of an English feel to it rather than Dutch.

 

Tam

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15 hours ago, magnetman said:

The boat looks a bit Dutch. Tjalks have that stem post design. I wonder if it is not from Englandland. Or it is from Englandland and has some influence around the boat design.

 

Not all that clear as to whether the woman is wearing clogs. I think she might be.

The 'oss looks a bit furrin too.


and I think the boat’s stuck in the lock with its fenders down?😃

 

2 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

In Goliath's post of a second version the lock itself does look pretty much identical, even with the same bent balance beams, but the building has been turned through 90 degrees and there is no church in the background. The woman might be wearing clogs, but that was common in England too back in the day. The bow of the barge does resemble a tjalk, but the landscape has much more of an English feel to it rather than Dutch.

 

Tam


I simply thought he just hadn’t bothered with the church, but yes, it’s a different lock, I see that now.

👍

 

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13 minutes ago, magnetman said:

A strong argument for these simply being copies of someone else's painting with a bit of alteration so it doesn't look too much like a rip-off.

I still reckon their his views.

Cant find out much about him, but it’s reckoned he did paint on the spot, Plein air.

He was following the fashion of the time and ripping off ideas but I think the views and compositions are properly his.

 

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