Jump to content

Making an offer subject to survey


themymble

Featured Posts

Just now, mrsmelly said:

If you think surveys are worth the paper they are written on, then phone or email Tom Keeling 07976631920. Top bloke.

Another vote here for Tom, if he's got availability. Did ours a few years ago and he was great, very easy to talk to and happy to spend the time discussing what he'd found. 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

If you think surveys are worth the paper they are written on, then phone or email Tom Keeling 07976631920. Top bloke.

 

If what you expect from a survey is a reasonable and well-informed opinion about the boat which will probably be broadly correct, then a survey is for you.

 

If OTOH you want a cast iron guarantee that anything and everything the surveyor writes will be 100% gospel truth, and you are of litigious nature and would sue for losses should you find the slightest technical error in the report, or even some whopping big errors, then a survey is not for you. The T&Cs will protect any professional surveyor from such risk.

 

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
Finesse a point.
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Remember the broker or the owner / seller are NOT legally obliged to inform you of any faults on the boat so ensure if there is anything that you have the slightest concerns about ask your surveyor to pay particular attention to those areas - could be as simple as 'water staining' of the wood surrounding the windows, a smell of damp / mould in the bathroom etc etc.

The elephant in the room with this part is that the broker IS legally obliged to inform you of known faults if they have paid someone for the boat and therefore own it. 

There are at least 3 well known brokers I am aware of that buy boats for cash (Whilton/Venetian, ABNB and Great Haywood) and past history has shown that sometimes the boats ownership is not freely advertised, in fact, at least one has been known to actively deny ownership.

Do your homework.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The elephant in the room with this part is that the broker IS legally obliged to inform you of known faults if they have paid someone for the boat and therefore own it. 

There are at least 3 well known brokers I am aware of that buy boats for cash (Whilton/Venetian, ABNB and Great Haywood) and past history has shown that sometimes the boats ownership is not freely advertised, in fact, at least one has been known to actively deny ownership.

Do your homework.

 

Absolutely - thank you I had not made that point - but as you say IT IS ONLY IF THE BROKER OWNS THE BOAT, not if they are selling it on behalf of a private seller.

 

I was negotiating to buy a NB from Whilton and had found out that it was owned by them - they denied this, (as they would) as that would have meant that the boat legally had a money back guarantee If it was found to be not as advertised, or found to be faulty.

 

You can ask the broker if they own the boat, but, they may not answer truthfully.

 

Caveat Emptor.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whilton definitely buy boats for cash (and therefore must own some boats they sell). We made an enquiry with them and they came to see our boat and offered us a price, which we declined.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, themymble said:

We have found a boat that is listed both on Apollo Duck and with a broker-do we make an offer subject to the all important survey and do we find a surveyor?

 

Just to clarify as I don't think anyone has spelled it out so far.

 

You are under no obligation to have a survey. If you are confident in your ability to judge the condition of the boat or happy to just take a chance, then ditch the survey. A seller is quite likely to take a lower offer on this basis as neither of you knows the condition of the hull for certain and they might prefer to just take the money and run!

 

No delay getting a survey, and therefore no risk of a survey throwing up faults and price-negotiating points can look very attractive indeed to a seller in a hurry.

 

 

You just hand over the money and sail off into the sunset there and then. Boat bought!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The elephant in the room with this part is that the broker IS legally obliged to inform you of known faults if they have paid someone for the boat and therefore own it. 

There are at least 3 well known brokers I am aware of that buy boats for cash (Whilton/Venetian, ABNB and Great Haywood) and past history has shown that sometimes the boats ownership is not freely advertised, in fact, at least one has been known to actively deny ownership.

Do your homework.

Are you referring to Great Haywood boat sales who no longer operate out of Great Haywood having moved to Fradley Junction and now operate under the name Nationwide Boat Sales or Lakeland Leisure boat sales who now operate out of Great Haywood and the other Lakeland Leisure owned marinas (Great Haywood, Tattenhall, Saul Junction, Roydon and Barton Turn)...?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

If you think surveys are worth the paper they are written on, then phone or email Tom Keeling 07976631920. Top bloke.


He did a full survey for me when I bought my boat. So not just the hull but the whole lot. 
Very thorough. 

If opting for a survey then try your best to be there when they do it. 
Not because a surveyor is necessarily untrustworthy but becuase you can ask stuff. 
I’m not saying stand over their shoulder watching, simply get your moneys worth and learn. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Absolutely - thank you I had not made that point - but as you say IT IS ONLY IF THE BROKER OWNS THE BOAT, not if they are selling it on behalf of a private seller.

 

If the broker owns the boat, it is not a broker (in this transaction at least).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

Are you referring to Great Haywood boat sales who no longer operate out of Great Haywood having moved to Fradley Junction and now operate under the name Nationwide Boat Sales or Lakeland Leisure boat sales who now operate out of Great Haywood and the other Lakeland Leisure owned marinas (Great Haywood, Tattenhall, Saul Junction, Roydon and Barton Turn)...?

Both of them buy boats for cash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, booke23 said:

The best surveyors are usually busy and you might have to wait a while for a slot. 

And if you want an out of water survey you might have to wait for availability of a drydock/crane, unless the boat is already on hardstanding.

The cost of a surveyor plus drydock/crane is quite a hefty sum, and all wasted if you don't in the end buy the boat. So taking into account the limitations of a survey as set out by others, consider whether a lowish offer for a quick purchase and no survey might leave you with enough cash leftover to deal with anything that might arise. If you do wait for a survey there is always the risk the boat will be sold to someone else in the meantime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, David Mack said:

And if you want an out of water survey you might have to wait for availability of a drydock/crane, unless the boat is already on hardstanding.

The cost of a surveyor plus drydock/crane is quite a hefty sum, and all wasted if you don't in the end buy the boat. So taking into account the limitations of a survey as set out by others, consider whether a lowish offer for a quick purchase and no survey might leave you with enough cash leftover to deal with anything that might arise. If you do wait for a survey there is always the risk the boat will be sold to someone else in the meantime.

 

And there is quite a high risk of this happening I'd suggest, if the boat is an attractive boat suitable for living on. Which it probably is, given the OP is buying it for that purpose. 

 

An anecdote.  I sold one of my boats earlier this year. I priced it to sell without a survey, not because I knew it was a duff boat but because a yard to do a survey was two or three days' cruising time each way and I wasn't up for spending the time doing that, what with work and plenty of other things to do. The eventual buyer was wary of buying a boat with no survey but he liked the boat and went for it, saying the first thing he would do would be get it docked and surveyed. He texted me the other day with results of the survey. The hull is in A1 condition as new, and he is delighted. Point is though, he intended to get the survey done immediately and it took him six months to actually get it done. There was no way I'd have waited that six months for a sale 'subject to survey' to complete. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Goliath said:

If opting for a survey then try your best to be there when they do it. 
Not because a surveyor is necessarily untrustworthy but becuase you can ask stuff. 
I’m not saying stand over their shoulder watching, simply get your moneys worth and learn. 

 

Definitely try to be there for the survey. When I bought my boat 9 years ago I attended the survey. The surveyor checked the operation of everything, checked under the mattresses, removed the skirting to check the type of insulation was as claimed (it wasn't, it was better), found a few minor issues which allowed me to renegotiate my offer down by more than his fee, showed me how everything worked and gave me loads of advice on how to maintain the boat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Definitely try to be there for the survey. When I bought my boat 9 years ago I attended the survey. 

Whilst I agree, attend on the day the surveyor is there, what I must advise is let them do their job, dont start asking questions about the boat that he/she isnt actually testing/examining at that moment. A good surveyor will talk you through what they are doing but also be able to ask you to back off with queries until the end of the survey.

The worst case of putting a surveyor off their job I saw was last year, 60 plus year old buyer turned up with 2 of his expert mates(also above 60 and with 10,000 years of experience). The surveyor was pulled back and forth in and out of the boat, involved in lots of waterways chat, and merriment. At one point, they all spent 5 minutes at the front end of the boat discussing changing boat names, paint styles and how big a lozenge to add to the pointy end.

Next day we came along to put the first coat of blacking on the boat. The bowthruster tube had 4mm plus pits around where the propellors spun. The tube was a 5mm thickness. I took pictures, and reported it to the broker who contacted buyer. The surveyors report didnt mention it at all, in fact, it didnt mention the bowthruster at all.

The surveyor then admitted he had missed it completely and a reduction in the price agreed, plus some spot welding to tide it over until a replacement tube could be arranged.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  The problem is these days, is that there are places like this “Forum” and “London Boaters” where everyone is an expert. The buyer wants to hover over the Surveyors shoulder asking basic naive questions instead of just letting him get on with the job and having faith in their findings. 

 

Edited by PD1964
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 23/11/2022 at 17:36, MtB said:

 

A seller is quite likely to take a lower offer on this basis as neither of you knows the condition of the hull for certain and they might prefer to just take the money and run!

 

No delay getting a survey, and therefore no risk of a survey throwing up faults and price-negotiating points can look very attractive indeed to a seller in a hurry.

 

 

You just hand over the money and sail off into the sunset there and then. Boat bought!

 

 

If a seller is in that much of a hurry to "take the money and run" then I would be very worried why he/she/they are in such a hurry to get rid, possibly they actually do have a fairly good idea of the condition of the hull ..........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone is making assumptions over a basic question, the OP asked a question about Surveyor and next step. 
 We don’t know the area where the boat is or the broker so everything like “when I had my boat surveyed” or “my surveyor was brilliant” or remarks like the one above are completely irrelevant.

Edited by PD1964
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I have never knowingly had my bot surveyed.

  Neither have I or the boats that I have bought for people and they’re all still afloat and the people that have bought them are all in profit.

  I also tell them not to listen to Forums, Facebook, YouTube bollox or Instagram.

Edited by PD1964
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another possibility is,  if your partner's brother lives on a boat, take him along. He may well have the experience to know what to look for. In effect, it's what I did when I bought mine (without a survey) - my friend is an engineer,  was refurbishing an old working boat and was probably as much use as a survey done in the water (that was 30 years ago & I've still got the  boat).

I don't actually remember anyone getting surveys back then. Did anyone on here? Everyone I knew just bought the things and then fettled them!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.