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14 hours ago, magnetman said:

Animals are pointless. I suppose they get a bit of attention in the form of humans wanting to eat them and also some people like watching wildlife films but other than that not interesting. Get rid.

 

I take it you were never taught about the interdependency of all life forms on one another.

 

Part of the reason climate is changing is owing to the balance of nature being upset by habitat destruction  e.g. rain forests.

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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

I take it you were never taught about the interdependency of all life forms on one another.

 

Part of the reason climate is changing is owing to the balance of nature being upset by habitat destruction  e.g. rain forests.

Things have moved on since then. Humans can manipulate their food sources in a such a way as to not depend on other species. We are clever enough to do this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Things have moved on since then. Humans can manipulate their food sources in a such a way as to not depend on other species. We are clever enough to do this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m assuming that the final sentence is a joke in very poor taste.

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1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Things have moved on since then. Humans can manipulate their food sources in a such a way as to not depend on other species. We are clever enough to do this.

Wrong!   Between  1/3 and 1/2 of the worlds food requires pollinators i.e. insects, without healthy biodiversity they don't survive and our food supply is up the creek.

 

Assuming you are old enough consider your car windscreen in summer and in the 60s and what it is like now.

 

Since the late 1980s every commercial tomato you have eaten has been pollinated by Bumble Bees.  The situation is so desperate we are having to breed Bumble Bees specially for the job.

 

The natural world which we rely on for food has to be healthy to perform properly, this healthy relies on the web of life linking all living thinks.

 

Your attitude is as far off beam as climate change deniers.

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On 24/11/2022 at 15:11, Jerra said:

 

Since the late 1980s every commercial tomato you have eaten has been pollinated by Bumble Bees.  The situation is so desperate we are having to breed Bumble Bees specially for the job.

I'm not sure that is true, but it is the case that the huge areas of crop monoculture which now exist across much of North America only exist because beekeepers move their hives across the country following the pollination seasons. So the thousands of acres of almond groves in California get hives brought in when the almond trees are in flower, and the beekeeper gets almond honey. Then when the almond season is over there are insufficient other flowering plants in bloom to sustain the number of bees, so the beekeeper carries his hives across the country to New England where the blueberries are just coming into flower... Rinse and repeat across the various crops across the country then take the hives to somewhere warm like Florida to overwinter.

Meanwhile each of those crops is sprayed with herbicides and pesticides appropriate to the individual crop's needs, but over a season the bee colonies get the lot. And while these herbicides and pesticides have all been approved for use on single crops, nobody has properly assessed the combined effects on bee populations. And this is now thought to be one of the main reasons behind colony collapse disorder (CCD), which has seriously impacted American beekeepers, but is less of a problem in most of the rest of the world where crops and other vegetation are more mixed, and there is less need for the bees to move to follow the flowering seasons.

Edited by David Mack
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On 24/11/2022 at 13:45, magnetman said:

Things have moved on since then. Humans can manipulate their food sources in a such a way as to not depend on other species. We are clever enough to do this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think you are 

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On 24/11/2022 at 15:11, Jerra said:

Wrong!   Between  1/3 and 1/2 of the worlds food requires pollinators i.e. insects, without healthy biodiversity they don't survive and our food supply is up the creek.

 

Assuming you are old enough consider your car windscreen in summer and in the 60s and what it is like now.

 

Since the late 1980s every commercial tomato you have eaten has been pollinated by Bumble Bees.  The situation is so desperate we are having to breed Bumble Bees specially for the job.

 

The natural world which we rely on for food has to be healthy to perform properly, this healthy relies on the web of life linking all living thinks.

 

Your attitude is as far off beam as climate change deniers.

The more we discover about fungi the more we realise how much we depend on them

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On 23/11/2022 at 20:41, MtB said:

........

Similarly the thousands of building development plans across the land blighted by the presence of the ultra rare great crested newt, on every single one of 'em....

Thus proving that they are not that ultra rare.

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On 22/11/2022 at 09:41, Loddon said:

This would make the trip from Boston to the fens a doddle, pity that the bunny huggers will kill it stone dead.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-63708269

Some very good points made by others.

This is not a new proposal it was publicised back in 2020 when it produced an extremely concerning knee-jerk negative reaction from an RSPB officer who just opposed it and any other proposal on principal alone.
I have been looking into Ofwat North-South Water Transfer (NSWT) program for some time and no question that this Barrage proposal should be looked at in conjunction with the NSWT and its proposed reservoir land take of extremely valuable agricultural land adjacent to the Black Sluice.
You can bet your bottom dollar that the RSPB would also object to that, but then so would I.
 
All the flood control & water supply agency’s claim to be coordinating constructively but it don’t take much to see most of it is lip service and as the EA seems to be an extension of the RSPB & the Angling Trust this is not difficult to understand.

Rather than produce a great long diatribe I will pick up on some of the comments by others

 

1). Roland, Jen-in Wellies, MtB, Dav &Pen, LadyG, Jerra

Spot on. The rate of tidal excretion in the Great Ouse below Denver is lifting the river bed level to a point where seasonal flushing is not allowing a combination of a King Tide & high fluvial flows to clear the river channel so that sufficient water held in the upstream Washlands can not be discharged in what should be low tide discharge time.
In great part this has been found to be due to Washland water taken into the RGO Cut Off Channel being diverted from 1971 into the R Store for Essex water supply.

Ironically as I understand it, several coastal IDBs have had to extend coastal discharge pump facilities out into the Wash to combat tidal not fluvial excretion.
Note: Excretion levels are said to be less than sea level rise.

In addition both the Great Ouse & Welney Wash lands (which are connected) are now in a situation where they are becoming compromised by Tide Lock and the additional fluvial flows resulting from global warming and £40 million has just been spent on lifting the Middle Level Barrier Bank of the Ouse Washes. A barrage could also have made that 
unnecessary.

 

2). Athy, Mike Tee
The only way for the Wash remaining essentially as is, would be to construct a tidal defence barrier. Yes it will be expensive, yes it will create disruption & yes it will effect past NHM (habitat) challenges.
However the cost of protecting the miles & miles of existing coat line will be considerably more costly. 
It’s just that you and others will not see it.

It will be hidden in Environmental, Social, Heritage, and any number of Feel-good Grants distributed via the RSPB, LA’s, IDB’s Harbour Trusts and a myriad of others. 
It has already started. In 2018,  4IDB spent over £2 million on lifting Wrangle Wash Sea Bank all paid for by small grants and public donations. The Boston Barrier White Elephant cost over £100 million between 2019-21. 
Few will know the cost of other Sea Defence works in process. 
Or alternatively and more significantly how much coastal defence abandonment do the EA have in mind!

The availability of cash is only a political tool, not reality.
Remember the thousands of unemployed the UK would have post Brexit.


From a Natural Heritage Management (NHM) Standpoint. 
Anybody who doubts this must look at the destruction of the Thames riverside marshlands downstream the Thames Barrier where in a nutshell numerus small creeks have been replaced by engineering solutions; upstream Chelsea Creek (Kensington Canal) is no more. 

I could go on. 

From a local Cultural Heritage (CHM) Standpoint.

 Just look at the CHM Vandalism which Kings Lynn as been subject too (Mill Fleet, Purfleet, South Quay and the R Nar) and it has more to come unless some positive as opposed to passive action is taken.
 

Wisbech has also benefited from some lovely new concrete & brick work along what was open riverside, not to mention the recent Welney Rd flood prevention works partly due to Tide Lock.
 

3). robtheplod, Lodden
I think you have probably seen the artist impression with a great highway, which the RSPB have made much off, the promoters say a great highway is not proposed. 
When I looked at this some time back a rail link did seem the way to go and it could link in with the Kings Lynn Docks-Hunstanton rail proposal. 
However I do have some difficulty with the port proposal.

My own feeling is that such a Barrier would permit a total rethink of East Coast (including Hull) flood prevention & water supply. 
It should not be looked at in isolation or dismissed out of hand because a particular charity puts its donation list before the national interest or the interest of local inhabitants who stand to be deprived of a home. 

 

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Since  there are already increasing issues with flooding due to climate change rainfall events and flows from rivers being tide locked then does the barrier help by reducing the height of the tide or does the barrier not also cause the channels  out in The Wash to silt up rapidly therefore creating a greater resistance to flows from the rivers ? Certainly there would be a change that is not possible to fully understand  by observation. The changes would have to be modelled , which is possible.

It all very well keeping the sea out but if that changes the way  the fresh water from escapes to sea the end result could be worse than doing nothing. 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, MartynG said:

It all very well keeping the sea out but if that changes the way  the fresh water from escapes to sea the end result could be worse than doing nothing. 

 

Remember there are huge plans in place to build several reservoirs in the region - one reported very recently is the one near Peterborough which is designed to 'feed' 250,000 homes.

 

The requirements for new housing (apparently 340,000 per year are required at least for the next 10 years) all means that local facilities and infrastructure cannot cope, then, add in the forecast for more long, hot, dry Summers and water supply becocmes very much a priority.

 

All these rivers in the region getting blocked up by silt (due to the new barrage) could feed into these reservoirs.

 

Giant new reservoir near Peterborough will supply water for quarter of a million homes | Peterborough Telegraph (peterboroughtoday.co.uk)

 

Another South Lincolnshire (Nr Boston) planned reservoir to supply 500,000 homes

 

Proposed location for a new reservoir in Lincolnshire (anglianwater.co.uk)

 

 

Welcome - Anglian Water – Lincolnshire Reservoir (lincsreservoir.co.uk)

 

Welcome - Anglian Water - Fens Reservoir

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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