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Does over plating increase the value of a boat?


nealeST

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15 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It certainly increased the value of mine as it stopped the water coming in. Being done by a reputable yard, extremely carefully and well, means the boat is saleable, probably for what I paid for it thirty years ago, which was eight grand, which is a bit less than the replating cost.

I don't think boats have a scrap value, do they? There's so much work involved in getting any decent metal out of one I'd be surprised if it was an option.

That is very true, a friend of mine, now passed away had a Springer that sprung a leak. he gave it away. that was overplated and is still out cruising.

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"Does over plating increase the value of a boat?"

 

The answer to this is obviously yes. provided the value was originally depressed due to excessive corrosion.

 

If the boat was only lightly corroded in the first place then the answer is no.

 

The corollary to all this is the value added is usually less than the cost of the overplating. 

 

 

 

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I sold my boat when the hull had got down to 3mm in places. Overplating was quoted (three different firms) at between £10,000 and £15,000. This was about six or seven years ago. It would not have added anywhere near that to the value of the boat, which is why I reduced the sale price, was totally honest with the buyer, and breathed a sigh of relief that my grandkids hadn't been on board when it eventually sank. Not that I am aware if it sank or not, but I wasn't prepared to take the risk that it would and I couldn't afford that sort of money on a 40 year old Liverpool built hull - built to a budget and with a permanent list to port despite moving ballast around!

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For me, the replating cost was obviously cheaper than dumping the boat and buying a new one, which I certainly couldn't afford, and I like having a boat. So it depends what you want.

My old tub wasn't worth much when I got it, and certainly wasn't worth much when the water was coming in, so nine grand got me a boat back. I doubt I'll get that when I sell it, but I'll have had another ten years boating out of it by then if I live that long, so who cares?

I think expecting to get your money back after ten years if you buy a boat now is a bit dodgy. The system is going downhill fast, the finances are shaky at best and the costs are rising, your boat will be rustier, people's incomes are falling. It's not a sensible way to look at it. You have to factor in the pleasure you get from it, and the fact that there's nothing like it anywhere else. Value is not always calculated in monetary terms.

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12 hours ago, manxmike said:

I sold my boat when the hull had got down to 3mm in places.

Hello ManxMike,

Really interesting to have your response. (I had a look around the Liverpool Boats works in 1994 with an interest in a sailaway). I'm guessing that the hull was found to be in similar condition on the boat I was obsessing about just recently. The price was slashed by £22,000 after 2 weeks. In such an overheated market were brokerages report boats selling on the day they get them in and with a seemingly insatiable demand, it is startling to see a very attractive boat reduced to such an extent. Apparently there are people who are willing to buy a boat like your former and the one that just sold. Fair enough if you know what you are buying. 

Arthur makes the point that the economy just now is bust. I'm not sure brokerages are reporting a down turn in sales yet. I am waiting to see how this plays out in the two years ahead. I have the impression that people are selling bricks and mortar to buy boats and maybe desperate times encourage people to make bold and possibly foolish decisions about the future. Boom and Bust though...it comes back. Maybe I will never sell the boat I eventually buy and it will out live me. I'd like to think along those lines. I hold on to things for many decades. It's just important to get the right boat to start with....And Arthur you are right. Thinking you will get your money back is rather dodgy, the seller of the £52,000 boat who had to knock £22,000 in order to get it sold would definitely agree with you!

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To be fair, I loved the boat. Liverpool hulls had a bad reputation according to some, but I had very few problems. I was lucky and bought her at the bottom of the market some years ago when most were getting rid of narrow boats.

The engine was a Lister sr2, more than adequate for canals. The upperworks got painted by me with tekaloid and I got the hull blacked with new anodes. My kids and grandkids probably got more use than I did.

I miss the boat, I have a motorhome now, but the canals are still in my blood. Boats are now too expensive for me, given I live on the Isle of Man. I am looking at a share on a boat though, less outlay and availability for a few weeks a year. Even swmbo is in favour👍

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34 minutes ago, manxmike said:

when most were getting rid of narrow boats

I wonder if we see a return of that? That is a whole new topic we could open up with. Just listening this morning to a discussion on the radio about the state of the economy and how bleak things look....the CEO of Brompton Bikes explaining that his energy bill has gone from £380,000 to £1.9m...! (Isn't a Brompton the most perfect thing for a narrowboat?). But he thinks he can weather the storm because they export 75% of their bikes...and people will give up their cars to save money and cycle instead...stop going to the gym and get a real exercise machine instead..etc etc. I think about boat builders facing impossible energy and steel costs right now. I'm not sure even selling your bricks and mortar and financing for a boat can keep up with costs rising like that. With a 7% reduction in the average household economy most people are weighing up what they can or can't afford just now. Thinking of Liverpool boats and past times, things seemed a whole lot more sensible. I met the owner of Liverpool boats all those years ago. He was very generous with his time and happy to furnish me with info and photos which I have still got stashed away. I came away with a very favourable impression. It's fantastic seeing narrowboats being built, all that steel and craft...its the most impressive sculpture you'll ever see in your life!  I would argue that the fact there are at least three successful boat builders today in the Merseyside region is down to the prolific activity of Liverpool Boats. I was a struggling young ex art student but commissioning a sailaway was in my grasp. Not now I don't think. Things change.

 

Nice chatting with you manxmike. My first name is Neale and spelt this unusual way because way back in the family they came over from the Isle of Man to Liverpool and their surname was Neale. We've passed it around the family ever since. One of my sons has it as a middle name now like my father. I'm always telling people, no not Neil....my name is the Manx version.

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18 minutes ago, nealeST said:

(Isn't a Brompton the most perfect thing for a narrowboat?)

 

No. But that is a definitely a discussion for another thread, my folding bike of choice is a 70s Bickerton but they're not perfect for anything other than making you look like a grade A plum. 

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15 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I think expecting to get your money back after ten years if you buy a boat now is a bit dodgy.

Over the last 40 years all six of my boats have sold for an average of 25%  more than I paid for them. Even if you add in monies spent on improvements (lengthening, new engine etc) I would still be at break even point.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

70's Bickerton

Had to google that one. Eccentric handle bars! Like it. Hang on to it...retro chic! Probably worth a fortune now to groovy metropolitan dwellers. I cycle everywhere on my old all steel Pashley in every weather type in a waxed cycle cape with a tartan hood and a horse riding hat...now who is the plum!

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2 hours ago, Loddon said:

Over the last 40 years all six of my boats have sold for an average of 25%  more than I paid for them.

Which suggests the demand for boats is never significantly in decline. That is impressive and good to know. Certainly right now you are quids in if you bought six years ago and sell now. However, I'd come to the conclusion I'd be happy and realistic to loose money in the future. In the light of your experience I'm imagining you buy a boat, keep it 6-7 years and sell it on to get to the next? Perhaps you reach a point when a boat gets a bit too old if you hang on too long? ( But then maybe you don't care and you wouldn't want to sell it anyway). So the tip is to keep up maintenance, enjoy, keep it fresh and move to the next? Provided you can keep the dreaded tin worm at bay... 

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3 hours ago, Loddon said:

Over the last 40 years all six of my boats have sold for an average of 25%  more than I paid for them. Even if you add in monies spent on improvements (lengthening, new engine etc) I would still be at break even point.

 

 

How about if you add in all the licensing, mooring, insurance, repairs and other costs of ownership you've shelled out over the last 40 years?

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4 hours ago, Loddon said:

Over the last 40 years all six of my boats have sold for an average of 25%  more than I paid for them. Even if you add in monies spent on improvements (lengthening, new engine etc) I would still be at break even point.

 

 

Six boats in forty years, is keeping a boat for six or seven years, selling and buying another one. Just out of interest (no criticism implied), why? Or were they boats for different things?

I found a boat I liked and have kept it for thirty years. I suppose if I could have afforded a "better' on I might have upgraded once.

 

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59 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

How about if you add in all the licensing, mooring, insurance, repairs and other costs of ownership you've shelled out over the last 40 years?

Those up until recently for me  were classed as living expenses as I couldn't expect to live anywhere for free. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Six boats in forty years, is keeping a boat for six or seven years, selling and buying another one. Just out of interest (no criticism implied), why? Or were they boats for different things?

Different boats for different uses.

Mahe,  cruising NB

Idleness NB Liveaboard 

Slow Motion cruising NB whilst owning Idleness

Parglena Barge Liveaboard 

Cervinia Sailing Yot

Antoni River Cruiser

Loddon NB Liveaboard

Gumpy River cruiser

Unamed sailing dinghy

Up until very recently i have always had more than one boat.

Some were changed due to upsizing and some downsizing and a couple because I had no work :(

Should really have said 8 boats and over the last 30 years as I bought Mahe in 92

 

The liveaboards were 10 years each.

 

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1 hour ago, Loddon said:

Different boats for different uses.

Mahe,  cruising NB

Idleness NB Liveaboard 

Slow Motion cruising NB whilst owning Idleness

Parglena Barge Liveaboard 

Cervinia Sailing Yot

Antoni River Cruiser

Loddon NB Liveaboard

Gumpy River cruiser

Unamed sailing dinghy

Up until very recently i have always had more than one boat.

Some were changed due to upsizing and some downsizing and a couple because I had no work :(

Should really have said 8 boats and over the last 30 years as I bought Mahe in 92

 

The liveaboards were 10 years each.

 

Sounds ideal. It's lucky I'm not given to envy!

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On 18/11/2022 at 13:19, nealeST said:

 

Nice chatting with you manxmike. My first name is Neale and spelt this unusual way because way back in the family they came over from the Isle of Man to Liverpool and their surname was Neale. We've passed it around the family ever since. One of my sons has it as a middle name now like my father. I'm always telling people, no not Neil....my name is the Manx version.

Maybe you should come back to visit your ancestral homeland at some point, I'd love to meet up for a pint.

There are two variations of the name "Neale" by the way, yours and "Kneale" which I rather think is a derivation of the Gaelic for "son of Neale" which would have been MacNeale originally, but mac would now be replaced by a K.

Lots of variations of Manx surnames as they were usually written by the Parish Clerk who often had a very slim grasp of spelling.

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Hi ManxMike!

 

Yes, mine was originally a K version! They dropped the K when settling in England. I definitely have to visit. My dad went  on the boat for his holidays as a child until after one very bad crossing when my Nan refused to go again. Seeing the Isle of Man Steam Packet make its way out the Mersey regularly is a part of my childhood. Yeah it’s on the bucket list, rather visit there than see the Pyramids quite honestly!

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