What is a fair value for this boat

[LadyG]

44 minutes ago, junior said:

Also kind of glossed over in your opening post is the fact the base plate has not been examined yet. You say that some of the side needs plating? I expect a boat in that condition will likely need something doing on the baseplate too, reducing the value even further. 

 

For what it's worth though, it is a sellers market at the moment and I actually reckon it could probably sell for a bit more that the £5k some are suggesting on here. If you floated that down to Kings Cross and stuck a 'For Sale £15k ono' in the window I reckon you'd have a queue outside for viewings. 

Yes and then they'd all run away

[ditchcrawler]

The same question is now being asked on Facebook

[Alan de Enfield]

Obviously another case of not being told what you want to hear so ask someone else until you get the answer you want to hear.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Mike Tee]

I’m beginning to wonder if the OP is really the owner and actually paid £16k for it and is desperate to be reassured it is worth the price he paid! Whoops.

[Tracy D'arth]

4 hours ago, junior said:

Also kind of glossed over in your opening post is the fact the base plate has not been examined yet. You say that some of the side needs plating? I expect a boat in that condition will likely need something doing on the baseplate too, reducing the value even further. 

 

For what it's worth though, it is a sellers market at the moment and I actually reckon it could probably sell for a bit more that the £5k some are suggesting on here. If you floated that down to Kings Cross and stuck a 'For Sale £15k ono' in the window I reckon you'd have a queue outside for viewings. 

At that age it will likely have had only a 1/4" baseplate, there may be precious little of it left especially as it will probably never of been blacked in its life.

What would a 60 year old car look like underneath?

[LadyG]

14 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

That said offering £16K against an asking price of £22K might well produce a polite refusal.  Also is it being sold by Warwickshire Fly rather than a private individual - it looks like that maybe the situation, possibly?

I think that the work that has been done is a good indicator of the amount of work required to sort a boat, and that's just for starters.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by LadyG

[Mike Todd]

12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

The same question is now being asked on Facebook

Some professions understand the importance of being able to obtain a second opinion without causing offence.

[MtB]

28 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Some professions understand the importance of being able to obtain a second opinion without causing offence.

 

Or in this case, a 26th opinion....

 

 

[SteveLevis]

......a bargepole springs to mind?

[enigmatic]

tbf it is a lovely looking hull and has an engine. If you spent 5k on it you'd have more left over to overplate it, cover the wooden top in metal and do the interior refit.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

tbf it is a lovely looking hull and has an engine. If you spent 5k on it you'd have more left over to overplate it, cover the wooden top in metal and do the interior refit.

 

The last quote I saw for overplating a narrowboat was £200 per foot - if the 60 foot boat is as bad as thought that would be £12,000 for a complete overplate, and no doubt a not dissimilar sum for the cabin 'overplate'.

[enigmatic]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The last quote I saw for overplating a narrowboat was £200 per foot - if the 60 foot boat is as bad as thought that would be £12,000 for a complete overplate, and no doubt a not dissimilar sum for the cabin 'overplate'.

But after spending £25k on it his shell would be worth nearly £25k.  

 

Beats spending £16k on it before the overplating bill comes in.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

But after spending £25k on it his shell would be worth nearly £25k.

 

£25k + Purchase price of £5-£10k = £30k - £35k

 

Hull may then be worth approaching £25k to someone looking for a boat in London, but less eleswhere in the country.

[ditchcrawler]

Here is an opportunity for someone going down that route from Facebook

 

Hi there, I am a producer at Bowled Over Media and we are looking for people who are buying a boat to refurbish and live on for the first time, for a new Channel 4 series called Narrow Escapes.

The series will be a celebration of our canals and feature those who live and work on the water as well as the history, nature and environment.

If you are interested in finding out more please email me

sarah@bowledovermedia.com

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Here is an opportunity for someone going down that route from Facebook

 

Hi there, I am a producer at Bowled Over Media and we are looking for people who are buying a boat to refurbish and live on for the first time, for a new Channel 4 series called Narrow Escapes.

The series will be a celebration of our canals and feature those who live and work on the water as well as the history, nature and environment.

If you are interested in finding out more please email me

sarah@bowledovermedia.com

 

 

I wonder if the producer realise that it may take several years for a DIYer - it could even take a few months to get it booked in for overplating, and the chance of actually finishing the job are increasingly unlikely - as seen by the number of "partly done projects" littering boat yards.

[Cheshire cat]

That was my first thought. The producer is even more naive than some of the people that take on these projects. 

[lxs602]

Thank you for all the replies. I asked the question here, because I am interested in making a sensible decision. 

 

On 13/11/2022 at 22:03, ditchcrawler said:

The same question is now being asked on Facebook

 

It is also on Facebook as a question, as a family member said they would also ask there, as I am not on any social media.

 

 

On 12/11/2022 at 23:19, Alan de Enfield said:

Are you comparing prices with a steel narrowboat - A wooden-top will always be valued at a fraction of an all steel boat.

 

I take it you are aware of the problems with wooden-tops ?

 

I think you surveyor is valuing it slightly on the high side even in todays inflated market.

 

I am new to narrowboating, so I hadn't heard about wooden tops being worth less. I have read since that there can be problems with leaks, and sealing, and wood needing replacing over time. The roof, wood sides and seal were redone recently.

 

On 13/11/2022 at 07:04, MtB said:

I can see why the OP thinks its worth £16k though, it's a lot of boat. It's also gonna be a LOT of trouble too though,

 

I have a couple of questions. 

 

1)  There is solar power and electrics, water tank, two stoves, a bedframe, a loo, and insulation (blocks of Kingspan), and a watertight roof and walls that have been seen to recently, and a well-serviced engine. If it needs a "lot of work doing" though, what would that be? To rephrase, I am trying to gain a handle on exactly how much work is left. Wouldn't the scruffiness be improved once the junk is cleared out, and the walls painted a light colour? Think 'Changing Rooms' on TV.  Not that I've watched any recently. Two jobs that there are definitely are replacing the floorboards and fitting a gas cooker. Beyond this, I can think of a fresh coat of paint and some moveable second-hand furniture...

 

For the hull, the base plate can be checked once it is out of the water to have the wear edge welded. The survey was not as bad as some things that seem to be out there. If the base plate should be in similar condition, once it is surveyed, it would look like needing several hundred pounds to bring up the places that are under 4mm.

 

2)  I am not saying I think it is worth £16k currently. I think the sellers thought that from the size of the boat, and the work they have done. I thought it would be good to itemise the following to subtract from an offer price:  extra welding above to 4mm, refitting the floor and the cooker, painting the inside (I would do this). What would the value be then? If that made it more finished and out of the 'project boat' category?

 

 

Quote

 

Iande - A 30ft 1953 Steel Marine cruiser stern narrowboat.   £7,000  (Now disappeared... that one went fast)

This little boat has given many years of faithful service on the water. If you are looking for a a project and a blank canvas that you can really put your own stamp on, then Iande is the boat for you. The cruiser stern entrance doors lead straight down into a saloon area... read more

Year:

1953

Emma  - £9,000

This is Emma , A 35 ft Narrow boat , With a good metal hull and New wooden sides. Calico , New windows, A Single cylinder Sabb type g 10 hp Engine will need the timing doing,it is a project boat New Bumpers , and a wheel system for steerage,... read more

36 foot Springer - £16,000  (3mm or 5mm hull?)
Recent boat safety. Hull in good solid condition. Engine good runner. New stove. Lovely little boat.... read more
Year: 1988

Rosemary - £15,000

Classic Trad Stern canal boat Recently re-plated excellent hull survey steel thickness 10/7/6.5 Two coats of hull bitchimen applied Ready for internal re-fit... read more

Year:    1976

50ft narrow boat project  £10,000 auction

 

 

Other boats in the same price range for comparison. They are all smaller boats, though, except the last one. The owner said he bought it for £17k and it also has a 5mm hull...

 

I appreciate all the replies. I am just trying to get a better grip on this.

 

Thanks,

 

L

Edited November 15, 2022 by lxs602

[lxs602]

On 13/11/2022 at 17:17, Crewcut said:

Offering your £16k for this would be an infinitely better proposition, it's way further along & all steel. Good luck with your plans...

 

Out of interest, why do you think this would be further along? If it is a sailaway, then surely the stove, water tank, sink, insulation, etc. would need to be fitted. I have heard fitting out the inside of the boat to be a lot of work and cost.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, lxs602 said:

am new to narrowboating, so I hadn't heard about wooden tops being worth less. I have read since that there can be problems with leaks, and sealing, and wood needing replacing over time. The roof, wood sides and seal were redone recently.

 

 

The BIG problem is that the wood is attached to the steel hull, and the coefficient of expansion of wood and steel are very very different. It only takes one hot (or cold) day and the new seal will be broken as the metal expands and contracts more than the wood.

 

The only way to minimise (not remove all together) the problem is to completely remove the cabin and weld a (say 50mm+) upstand along the gunwale, then rebuild the cabin so it overlaps the upstand and 'sits' on the gunwales.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The only way to minimise (not remove all together) the problem is to completely remove the cabin and weld a (say 50mm+) upstand along the gunwale, then rebuild the cabin so it overlaps the upstand and 'sits' on the gunwales.

I suspect the boat was built this way from the start, so that probably won't be a problem.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I suspect the boat was built this way from the start, so that probably won't be a problem.

 

The problem with wooden tops is they are generally not carved out of one single huge piece of wood being a whole tree, so there will be joints. LOADS of joints, and joints leak. 

 

Worse, the water drips inside the cabin in places miles away from where it got in from the outside. DAMHIK. 

 

Nothing to do with the joint between the wood and the steel.

[LadyG]

9 hours ago, lxs602 said:

 

Out of interest, why do you think this would be further along? If it is a sailaway, then surely the stove, water tank, sink, insulation, etc. would need to be fitted. I have heard fitting out the inside of the boat to be a lot of work and cost.

The green boat is not a sailaway, it's a project boat that has been started by a boatyard, it has an engine and a water tank.

The boatyard would be unlikely to select a bad hull for their project, ie not one that needs overplating or that is as bad as the OPs original.

Of course fitting out a boat is a lot of work and cost, that's one reason why a new, fitted out boat costs a lot more than a sailaway which will have very basic equipment, eg an engine, a sailaway is a newly built boat.

Edited November 16, 2022 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

8 hours ago, David Mack said:

I suspect the boat was built this way from the start, so that probably won't be a problem.

 

Unless after 60 years of being damp the upstand has rusted away in places.

[Bod]

On 12/11/2022 at 22:24, lxs602 said:

Hi,

 

I'm new to narrowboating.

 

I was looking at a boat via a private sale, through a friend of a friend, which is a 60' steel boat from the late 1960's, with a steel hull and wood cabin. It has a Lister HR3 engine in very good order.

 

The hull is thin, at 5mm, but there was no significant loss found on a hull survey, with 1.2mm pitting in a couple of places. There is a few feet of welding to do around the wear edge (which will be sorted by the sellers) and more readings need taking from the base plate, as it wasn't lifted high enough. It has just been repainted and reblacked, and the anodes replaced. There had also been some water ingress, but the cabin has been made watertight, although the floorboards need replacing and there was corrosion to the gunwhales. The bilge area on the inside also needs draining and painting, and the engine room cleaning out. The insulation is Kingspan boards on one side, and rock wool on the other.

 

The fit out is basic and will need redoing (see pictures), but I just want somewhere simple and dry - it doesn't need to be fancy. The gas will needs sorting out (it's currently a gas bottle connected to a camping stove). There are a good number of solar panels, and the leisure batteries are in good condition. There is no shower currently (but I can use the shower at work / the gym, or just use a tin bathtub for the timebeing).

 

I looked at prices for similar boats, and I thought the asking price was fair, at £16k, given the current market, which is very hot. I was surprised, however, when I emailed the surveyor a few days ago to ask for an estimate of value, and he gave £5-10k, saying "there was a lot of work to be done".  I know it is at the entry side of the market, but it seemed low to me, and I still think around £15k on comparison to other boats.

 

I would really appreciate some opinions of what would be fair to offer from people who may have a lot more experience.

 

None of those photos are recent,(last month -6weeks) when was the boat surveyed, and for whom?

It's condition will not have improved in the mean time.

Others have indicated the general problem areas for a boat of this type, be aware that any work will show up unexpected further problem's that will need to be paid for, often before continuing with the first plan!

2 rules for working on a boat.

1. it will take at least 3 times longer than planned.

2. it will cost at least twice as much as budgeted for.

When costing the work, remember to allow for tools you don't already have, screws, glue, brackets, wood (and that ain't cheap now) replacing tools, broken,worn out, or lost overboard.

Look at boats that are around 10% higher in cost than your overall budget, can you get better for that money?

 

Bod.

[Arthur Marshall]

It took me about three months to refit my boat after I had to strip everything out for the first rebottoming - the insulation was polystyrene sheets and welding set it alight. And that was a 23 foot cabin, I was working part time so had four days solid a week to work on it, and the yard didn't charge me for hardstanding. There's a fifty five footer on my mooring someone bought to fit out and it's about a third done in three years. It's very, very time consuming, and virtually impossible to live on while you do it because everything is connected to everything else - you can't live in one bit while you fettle another. Anything you change has implications everywhere else. And the unexpected costs are phenomenal - I spent hours going back to Screwfix for yet another five hundred screws. Timber yard wood is twice the price of B&Q and it's not worth going for cheap.