What is a fair value for this boat

[lxs602]

Hi,

 

I'm new to narrowboating.

 

I was looking at a boat via a private sale, through a friend of a friend, which is a 60' steel boat from the late 1960's, with a steel hull and wood cabin. It has a Lister HR3 engine in very good order.

 

The hull is thin, at 5mm, but there was no significant loss found on a hull survey, with 1.2mm pitting in a couple of places. There is a few feet of welding to do around the wear edge (which will be sorted by the sellers) and more readings need taking from the base plate, as it wasn't lifted high enough. It has just been repainted and reblacked, and the anodes replaced. There had also been some water ingress, but the cabin has been made watertight, although the floorboards need replacing and there was corrosion to the gunwhales. The bilge area on the inside also needs draining and painting, and the engine room cleaning out. The insulation is Kingspan boards on one side, and rock wool on the other.

 

The fit out is basic and will need redoing (see pictures), but I just want somewhere simple and dry - it doesn't need to be fancy. The gas will needs sorting out (it's currently a gas bottle connected to a camping stove). There are a good number of solar panels, and the leisure batteries are in good condition. There is no shower currently (but I can use the shower at work / the gym, or just use a tin bathtub for the timebeing).

 

I looked at prices for similar boats, and I thought the asking price was fair, at £16k, given the current market, which is very hot. I was surprised, however, when I emailed the surveyor a few days ago to ask for an estimate of value, and he gave £5-10k, saying "there was a lot of work to be done".  I know it is at the entry side of the market, but it seemed low to me, and I still think around £15k on comparison to other boats.

 

I would really appreciate some opinions of what would be fair to offer from people who may have a lot more experience.

 

[Ianws]

5mm hull -1.2mm pitting equals 3.8mm in places which is below the 4mm insurers want for full cover. Third party only cover only is available but that would affect the value. Price is what someone is prepared to pay for it. 

[Alan de Enfield]

Are you comparing prices with a steel narrowboat - A wooden-top will always be valued at a fraction of an all steel boat.

 

I take it you are aware of the problems with wooden-tops ?

 

I think you surveyor is valuing it slightly on the high side even in todays inflated market.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[bizzard]

On the other hand a wooden top boat will be much cooler inside in the summer and warmer in winter.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, bizzard said:

On the other hand a wooden top boat will be much cooler inside in the summer and warmer in winter.

My first boat had a steel hull with a wooden top. It was a Swanline, started life with a fibreglass cabin but had been changed to marine ply when I bought it. It seemed to " breath " it was very nice to live in, although I had to do maintenence on the cabin and paint it yearly. I did like it tho.

[peterboat]

5k it is then for your offer

[Tracy D'arth]

No more than £5K, timber tops are unsaleable.  Its too old, too thin, too rusted, too badly equipped, too scruffy.

It will cost you another £18K to £24K just to make it temporarily livable and it will still only be worth £8K. To keep it for any length of time it will be a money pit.

[MtB]

I rapidly lost interest in the wordy description and jumped straight to the pictures. I too found the figure of £5k springing to mind.

 

"5mm hull", "built in 1960s", and "wooden top" are all one really needs to value it. Everything else about this boat can be projected from those three details.

 

I can see why the OP thinks its worth £16k though, it's a lot of boat. It's also gonna be a LOT of trouble too though, and no mention of an engine that I could see. Quite important thing, the engine.

 

A school of thought is a boat is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it and the OP sees it as worth £16k, therefore it IS worth £16k. I doubt they would find anyone else to pay £16k for it as it is now. Maybe after the renovation is finished but it will always be a wooden top which always caps the value as low.

 

 

 

 

[Athy]

42 minutes ago, MtB said:

no mention of an engine that I could see. Quite important thing, the engine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Lister HR3 in very good order", says he.

[Mike Tee]

Why did you bother hiring a surveyor if you don’t trust what he has told you? It sounds as if you WANT it to be worth £16k. I’d go with  the comments already made, including your surveyor - a complete money pit. There is better out there.

[harrybsmith]

Really nice looking bow on it, and that's the bit you'll struggle to ever change. Wooden tops are a bit rubbish and will develop leaks at will, but can be replaced (at a cost...). 

 

I think £5k is reasonable ish, although I do know of a 50ft wooden top needing a silly amount of hull plating that sold last week for £10k, but I think it's back up for sale now the buyer has actually looked at it...

[Tony Brooks]

The unanimity I find surprising because as I read and looked at the images I also thought £5K absolute maximum, but nothing would induce me to pay anything for it, too much long term ongoing work.

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

Really nice looking bow on it,

 

Yes I thought that too. 

 

Also been recently unloaded of a TONNE of stuff recently (presumably in prep for sale), judging by the new waterline. 

 

Or simply had all the rainwater pumped out, lol

[Bee]

Wonder who built it?  As ever there is more than one way of looking at this. up to 15 k or so is project boat or Springer territory, I have nothing against Springers, we all have budgets and I have just put two second hand tyres on the car - couldn't afford new ones. This boat would interest me as it is not bad looking and in my opinion would repay the effort but it really is a big job, the top is likely to need a lot of work, the interior is awful, heaven only knows what the water tank, fuel tank, pump out tank(?) are like inside etc. etc. The insulation is probably soggy fibreglass and the floor is just soggy. I reckon your surveyor is about right at 5 - 10K but if you offered 5k then someone else would outbid you and eventually it might well go for more than its worth. If I wanted it I would offer 5k for it and prepare myself for 3 years of very hard work and probably at least 15k of spending but it could then be worth 25k, those figures really are based on guesswork and doing everything yourself.

[Laurie Booth]

11 hours ago, lxs602 said:

Hi,

 

I'm new to narrowboating.

 

I was looking at a boat via a private sale, through a friend of a friend, which is a 60' steel boat from the late 1960's, with a steel hull and wood cabin. It has a Lister HR3 engine in very good order.

 

The hull is thin, at 5mm, but there was no significant loss found on a hull survey, with 1.2mm pitting in a couple of places. There is a few feet of welding to do around the wear edge (which will be sorted by the sellers) and more readings need taking from the base plate, as it wasn't lifted high enough. It has just been repainted and reblacked, and the anodes replaced. There had also been some water ingress, but the cabin has been made watertight, although the floorboards need replacing and there was corrosion to the gunwhales. The bilge area on the inside also needs draining and painting, and the engine room cleaning out. The insulation is Kingspan boards on one side, and rock wool on the other.

 

The fit out is basic and will need redoing (see pictures), but I just want somewhere simple and dry - it doesn't need to be fancy. The gas will needs sorting out (it's currently a gas bottle connected to a camping stove). There are a good number of solar panels, and the leisure batteries are in good condition. There is no shower currently (but I can use the shower at work / the gym, or just use a tin bathtub for the timebeing).

 

I looked at prices for similar boats, and I thought the asking price was fair, at £16k, given the current market, which is very hot. I was surprised, however, when I emailed the surveyor a few days ago to ask for an estimate of value, and he gave £5-10k, saying "there was a lot of work to be done".  I know it is at the entry side of the market, but it seemed low to me, and I still think around £15k on comparison to other boats.

 

I would really appreciate some opinions of what would be fair to offer from people who may have a lot more experience.

 

Walk away from it.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Also been recently unloaded of a TONNE of stuff recently (presumably in prep for sale), judging by the new waterline. 

 

It looks as if the yard "guessed" where the waterline would be and stuck an anode in the wrong place.

 

 

 

[LadyG]

With all the best will on the world, it's next door to a wreck, find something that is a better boat.

If you intend to liveaboard it needs to be habitable, which this really is not.

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by LadyG

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Bee said:

Wonder who built it?  As ever there is more than one way of looking at this. up to 15 k or so is project boat or Springer territory, I have nothing against Springers, we all have budgets and I have just put two second hand tyres on the car - couldn't afford new ones. This boat would interest me as it is not bad looking and in my opinion would repay the effort but it really is a big job, the top is likely to need a lot of work, the interior is awful, heaven only knows what the water tank, fuel tank, pump out tank(?) are like inside etc. etc. The insulation is probably soggy fibreglass and the floor is just soggy. I reckon your surveyor is about right at 5 - 10K but if you offered 5k then someone else would outbid you and eventually it might well go for more than its worth. If I wanted it I would offer 5k for it and prepare myself for 3 years of very hard work and probably at least 15k of spending but it could then be worth 25k, those figures really are based on guesswork and doing everything yourself.

I think it would depend on OPs resources, physical and financial, it really needs to be on the hard, near to a skip, power, etc etc. It's one redeeming feature, nice bow lines cannot be offset by the non standard construction, the internal mess etc. It's 60ft long which restricts it's navigation. It's old and has been valued at little more than scrap.

Looking at the two photos, I'd guess it's been out fairly recently and the anodes replaced, no sign of them in one picture.

Edited November 13, 2022 by LadyG

[Peanut]

Someone's project boat. They have now realised the enormous cost and amount of work needed, for a boat that will never be worth what it cost to do.  Now looking for a mug to take it on.

[GUMPY]

4 hours ago, Laurie Booth said:

Walk away from it.

No no no

 

 

 

Run away from it

 

 

 

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

It's 60ft long which restricts it's navigation

Lots of reasons not to buy this boat, but that is not one of them. At 60ft you can take this boat almost anywhere a narrow boat can go. The only significant exception is I think Brandon lock on the River Lark which is 48 ft long. 60ft will (just) fit through Salterhebble, which are the shortest locks on the main system.

[dmr]

If a boat floats, has an engine that goes, and is just about habitable then I expect lots of people will pay £15k, so its worth £15k. In terms of investment, purchase cost, cost to renovate and then potebtial sale value then it might only be worth 5k but thats not how it works. Boats are not an investment, they are for boating, living on, or doing crazy restoration projects on 😀

[Crewcut]

Offering your £16k for this would be an infinitely better proposition, it's way further along & all steel. Good luck with your plans...

[alan_fincher]

16 minutes ago, Crewcut said:

Offering your £16k for this would be an infinitely better proposition, it's way further along & all steel. Good luck with your plans...

 

That said offering £16K against an asking price of £22K might well produce a polite refusal.  Also is it being sold by Warwickshire Fly rather than a private individual - it looks like that maybe the situation, possibly?

[junior]

Also kind of glossed over in your opening post is the fact the base plate has not been examined yet. You say that some of the side needs plating? I expect a boat in that condition will likely need something doing on the baseplate too, reducing the value even further. 

 

For what it's worth though, it is a sellers market at the moment and I actually reckon it could probably sell for a bit more that the £5k some are suggesting on here. If you floated that down to Kings Cross and stuck a 'For Sale £15k ono' in the window I reckon you'd have a queue outside for viewings.