Electrics system on my boat - halp!

[YSA]

Hey everyone!

 

I’ve been a boater for about a week and the person who sold me my boat did a very quick, run-through-everything-as-quickly-as-possible handover and I’m pretty sure that I’ve misunderstood what was said about the electricity set up!  

 

I woke up up this morning and couldn’t turn anything on from the 230v plugs. Once I ran the engine they got going again, but my water pump is still acting up (I added a good amount of water to the tank to make sure it wasn’t that it was empty, and when having a look at stuff to make myself feel like I was doing something) I noticed the inverter was off and I haven’t touched the inverter since moving, so it’s been like that since I moved on (or it’s switched itself off?)

 

My questions are the following: 

 

- is it likely the water pump is acting up because of the electrics?

 

- should the inverter be kept on at all times?

 

- are there any YouTube videos/resources that would explain the electric system that I have? 

 

Thanks! :-)

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Welcome to the forum.

Your batteries are almost certainly flat. Are you on a shore mains electrical connection. If not, how are you charging your batteries? Running the engine? If so, how many hours a day? If there are any solar panels, they will be increasingly ineffective over the winter. Have you read the battery charging primer?

 

46 minutes ago, YSA said:

- is it likely the water pump is acting up because of the electrics?

If the batteries are flat, the water pump won't work. It needs a much higher current than LED lights.

 

46 minutes ago, YSA said:

- should the inverter be kept on at all times?

Depends. What mains stuff, if any, do you need to run all the time? If it can be switched off when not required, then that will save power. The inverter will consume some current running regardless when switched on.

 

 

46 minutes ago, YSA said:

I noticed the inverter was off and I haven’t touched the inverter since moving, so it’s been like that since I moved on (or it’s switched itself off?)

The inverter will switch itself off when the battery voltage drops too low.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Jen-in-Wellies

[YSA]

Thanks for this!

 

The batteries are reading as almost fully charged (if I’m reading them correctly - pic included). Which is part of why I’m confused!

 

I’ve got three solar panels which are apparently good, the previous owner said he would usually run the engine for power every three or four days in winter, however I am on the boat more than he is.

 

I’ve also been running the engine for hot water, but this has been once every two or three days for about an hour.

 

The previous owner also explained something about a switch - I can’t remember the name of it now but it’s got a 1, both, 2 and off setting and moving this according to cruising/running the engine and being stationary and that having something to do with batteries too?

[rusty69]

The 1-2-Both switch is normally wired so that it is connected to the engine start-house bank or both. So, in normal use, you would start the engine on posn 1 (or possibly both), and then switch to both to charge the engine start battery and the house bank. If you leave it on 1 (assuming that is how it is connected), you will only charge the engine start battery.

 

What position do you have the switch in when the engine is running?

Edited November 9, 2022 by rusty69

[Jen-in-Wellies]

11 minutes ago, YSA said:

The batteries are reading as almost fully charged (if I’m reading them correctly - pic included). Which is part of why I’m confused!

Don't believe the state of charge figure. It becomes increasingly inaccurate over time. It will also lie to you if the batteries are knackered and can no longer hold their charge. 99.7% of very little is still very little. These meters are useful as ammeters, to measure current during charging, particularly when deciding the batteries are fully charged and as voltmeters to estimate state of charge.

 

11 minutes ago, YSA said:

’ve got three solar panels which are apparently good, the previous owner said he would usually run the engine for power every three or four days in winter, however I am on the boat more than he is.

 

I’ve also been running the engine for hot water, but this has been once every two or three days for about an hour.

This is almost certainly not enough engine running in autumn and winter. Lead acid batteries need to be fully recharged at every two or three days, or their capacity is degraded. This has probably already happened to your batteries. New boaters often go through this experience, including me. You are likely to have to replace the batteries, but before you do, you need to know how to look after the new ones, or they will rapidly go the same way.

The battery monitor looks to be a knock off of the Victron ones, even down to copying their model numbers.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Tony Brooks]

Welcome. I suggest that you study this :

 

and then ask questions about anything you do not understand.

 

We fear you have fallen into the trap in respect of lead acid batteries and battery monitors that arguably the majority of new boaters fall into and may have ruined the batteries, so don't feel bad about it but learn. As Jen says that type of monitor is notorious for misleading boaters and encouraging them to ruin batteries, so if you have the manual study it an dlearn how to set it up and regularly resynchronise it. However, I would still consider that % charged figure a potential lie.

 

Try to run the engine at 1200 to 1500 rpm for maybe 8 hours to try to recver the batteries, and then try to keep them as fully charged as possible.

 

Edited to add: Any battery capacity markings on the batteries (Amp Hours A/h) is almost certainly now a fiction, over time lead acid batteries loose capacity and the longer they are left partially discharged the greater that loss.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Also take a look at @Tony Brooks www.TB-Training.co.uk site, which is very good. Especially if your last exposure to electrical stuff was at school. Understanding Amps, Volts and Amp.hours. As a boater, you are now your own electricity company, so you need to learn what's what.

[mrsmelly]

As an addition to the other good info given already, my twopenneth.

You are not charging anywhere near enough, this time of year until april treat your solar as toys for back up and you wont go far wrong, you need to charge batteries daily is at all possible, how long depends on how much you use but 2 hours min I would expect.

Two, on buying any boat the first thing I always did was bin the service batteries and replace, they are an unknown quantity and invariably on boats for sale will be knackered.

Starting with new you know they are good and following Tony and others advice you will be able to keep them good.

[YSA]

59 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The 1-2-Both switch is normally wired so that it is connected to the engine start-house bank or both. So, in normal use, you would start the engine on posn 1 (or possibly both), and then switch to both to charge the engine start battery and the house bank. If you leave it on 1 (assuming that is how it is connected), you will only charge the engine start battery.

 

What position do you have the switch in when the engine is running?

 

Ok that’s what I’ve been doing. I haven’t been starting it on 1, but it’s been on ‘both’ when the engine is running! 

39 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Welcome. I suggest that you study this :

 

and then ask questions about anything you do not understand.

 

We fear you have fallen into the trap in respect of lead acid batteries and battery monitors that arguably the majority of new boaters fall into and may have ruined the batteries, so don't feel bad about it but learn. As Jen says that type of monitor is notorious for misleading boaters and encouraging them to ruin batteries, so if you have the manual study it an dlearn how to set it up and regularly resynchronise it. However, I would still consider that % charged figure a potential lie.

 

Try to run the engine at 1200 to 1500 rpm for maybe 8 hours to try to recver the batteries, and then try to keep them as fully charged as possible.

 

Edited to add: Any battery capacity markings on the batteries (Amp Hours A/h) is almost certainly now a fiction, over time lead acid batteries loose capacity and the longer they are left partially discharged the greater that loss.

 

Thank you! I’ll have a read through 

34 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Also take a look at @Tony Brooks www.TB-Training.co.uk site, which is very good. Especially if your last exposure to electrical stuff was at school. Understanding Amps, Volts and Amp.hours. As a boater, you are now your own electricity company, so you need to learn what's what.

 

Thanks!

28 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

As an addition to the other good info given already, my twopenneth.

You are not charging anywhere near enough, this time of year until april treat your solar as toys for back up and you wont go far wrong, you need to charge batteries daily is at all possible, how long depends on how much you use but 2 hours min I would expect.

Two, on buying any boat the first thing I always did was bin the service batteries and replace, they are an unknown quantity and invariably on boats for sale will be knackered.

Starting with new you know they are good and following Tony and others advice you will be able to keep them good.

 

What are service batteries? 

[YSA]

Thanks everyone, this is all really helpful! 

 

I’m not on the boat right now, but I ran the engine earlier for an hour and was able to connect stuff to the plugs (didn’t leave anything plugged in, just wanted to check to see if they were working), so I’m hoping that means the batteries are not totally gone! 

 

Will do some more more figuring out later and after reading what’s been suggested and might be back to post again.

 

I appreciate the responses 😊

Edited November 9, 2022 by YSA

[LadyG]

Chances are the previous owner ran the batteries in to the ground,standard practice.

If you are in a marina then you can probably stuff batteries with magic dust from mains, this will use the batteries as a sort of buffer zone.

If you are not on shore power and you use electricity, stand by for steep learning curve 

I suggest you buy some torches and use cafe or train to keep phone charged .

No hairdryers. no daily showers untill you have grasped the basics 

 

 

 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, YSA said:

Thanks everyone, this is all really helpful! 

 

I’m not on the boat right now, but I ran the engine earlier for an hour and was able to connect stuff to the plugs (didn’t leave anything plugged in, just wanted to check to see if they were working), so I’m hoping that means the batteries are not totally gone! 

 

Will do some more more figuring out later and after reading what’s been suggested and might be back to post again.

 

I appreciate the responses 😊

Service batteries is the term for the batteries that power your onboard stuff, rather than the starter battery.

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, YSA said:

 

Ok that’s what I’ve been doing. I haven’t been starting it on 1, but it’s been on ‘both’ when the engine is running! 

 

That's good then. At least the switch should be in the correct position to charge both sets of batteries. The important part with these switches is to never turn them off, or move the switch through the 'off ' position while the alternator is charging the battery. Although, you ideally want to be starting the engine with the engine start battery, in reality, it probably makes little difference as long as you have the capability to start the engine with a 'good' battery.

 

You are ok moving the switch between '1' and '2' or '1' and 'both say', without going through the 'off' posn, as it should be a ' make before break' type switch.

Edited November 9, 2022 by rusty69

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Service batteries is the term for the batteries that power your onboard stuff, rather than the starter battery.

 

Also known as House batteries or Domestic batteries, depending upon who you are talking to.

The start battery is also known as the engine battery.

[MtB]

44 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Also known as House batteries or Domestic batteries, depending upon who you are talking to.

The start battery is also known as the engine battery.

 

True, but always puzzles me as its a boat not a house! 

 

My suggestion to the OP is buy yourself a DC clamp meter. Fantastically revealing to use all over the electrical system. It tells one the current inside a conductor, which is most often the thing one wants/needs to know. 

 

E.G. this: 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UNI-T-UT210D-Digital-Current-Capacitance/dp/B0753FY711/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2HEW4IGNOM5R6&keywords=dc+clamp+meter&qid=1668016555&sprefix=dc+clamp+meter%2Caps%2C453&sr=8-6

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by MtB

[Ianws]

Don't assume that the 1, 2, both, off switch is wired up correctly. It may be but might not. 

[Crewcut]

I think it's worth mentioning that using 12v batteries to provide 230v via an inverter is a very inefficient way to use the power of the batteries. If off grid your batteries will benefit from you avoiding using 230v via inverter wherever you possibly can. Even having the inverter on standby and ready to provide 230v consumes significant power. If you have a 230v fridge or TV switch to 12v versions if at all possible. LED lights consume a lot less power. Managing electric on a boat requires a a totally different mindset, you must be prepared to learn or you'll forever be having problems. The good news is it is not rocket science, best of luck with your new boat...

[Jen-in-Wellies]

10 hours ago, Crewcut said:

I think it's worth mentioning that using 12v batteries to provide 230v via an inverter is a very inefficient way to use the power of the batteries. If off grid your batteries will benefit from you avoiding using 230v via inverter wherever you possibly can. Even having the inverter on standby and ready to provide 230v consumes significant power. If you have a 230v fridge or TV switch to 12v versions if at all possible. LED lights consume a lot less power. Managing electric on a boat requires a a totally different mindset, you must be prepared to learn or you'll forever be having problems. The good news is it is not rocket science, best of luck with your new boat...

For the OP. 12V versus mains fridges and other appliances are a source of frequent arguments/discussions on this forum with entrenched opinions on each side. A search will find new and long threads started every few months. You may decide to change fridge, TV, etc in the future, but this is a low priority for now as there are plenty more low hanging fruit you can sort out in order to get reliable charging of your batteries to 100%. Spending multiple hundreds of pounds changing fridges, TV's and cables right now isn't even in the top ten things you need to do right now. @Crewcut's argument isn't as cut and dried as he makes out and a search will let you read both sides of this argument and how each side can be right in some circumstances and wrong in others.

 

On another boating contentious issue though, if you have a pump out, you absolutely must replace it right now with a cassette toilet! 😀

[MtB]

11 hours ago, Ianws said:

Don't assume that the 1, 2, both, off switch is wired up correctly. It may be but might not. 

 

I'd go further than that. Don't assume ANYTHING where boat wiring is concerned. 

 

In fact I'd finess that even further into: Don't assume ANYTHING where a boat is concerned. 

[Rob-M]

12 hours ago, Ianws said:

Don't assume that the 1, 2, both, off switch is wired up correctly. It may be but might not. 

Or wired up at all.  We were briefly shown our boat by the broker who explained the 1, 2 both switch only for me later to find it was not connected to anything as a second alternator had been added.

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

For the OP. 12V versus mains fridges and other appliances are a source of frequent arguments/discussions on this forum with entrenched opinions on each side. A search will find new and long threads started every few months. You may decide to change fridge, TV, etc in the future, but this is a low priority for now as there are plenty more low hanging fruit you can sort out in order to get reliable charging of your batteries to 100%. Spending multiple hundreds of pounds changing fridges, TV's and cables right now isn't even in the top ten things you need to do right now. @Crewcut's argument isn't as cut and dried as he makes out and a search will let you read both sides of this argument and how each side can be right in some circumstances and wrong in others.

 

On another boating contentious issue though, if you have a pump out, you absolutely must replace it right now with a cassette toilet! 😀

Yes, I did giggle when I saw crewcuts post. He is of course entirely incorrect, however as you say the OP isnt up to that stage yet.

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

For the OP. 12V versus mains fridges and other appliances are a source of frequent arguments/discussions on this forum with entrenched opinions on each side. A search will find new and long threads started every few months. You may decide to change fridge, TV, etc in the future, but this is a low priority for now as there are plenty more low hanging fruit you can sort out in order to get reliable charging of your batteries to 100%. Spending multiple hundreds of pounds changing fridges, TV's and cables right now isn't even in the top ten things you need to do right now. @Crewcut's argument isn't as cut and dried as he makes out and a search will let you read both sides of this argument and how each side can be right in some circumstances and wrong in others.

 

On another boating contentious issue though, if you have a pump out, you absolutely must replace it right now with a cassette toilet! 😀

I changed my shoreline fridge freezer for a a different brand, its so much more economical, it seems different brands different levels of insulation! Running the little freezer is a killer as its 240 volts and involves the inverter being left on constant 

[Peanut]

Like my fuel gauge, just not working currently, “I dip the tank, with this stick.”  There was no sender on the other end, just a chock block.

[Crewcut]

3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes, I did giggle when I saw crewcuts post. He is of course entirely incorrect, however as you say the OP isnt up to that stage yet.

 

Jen's post is fair enough & I'm glad I gave you a giggle but to say that my post was entirely incorrect is utter bollocks. Perhaps you'd like to explain exactly why all the points that I made are incorrect?

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, Crewcut said:

 

Jen's post is fair enough & I'm glad I gave you a giggle but to say that my post was entirely incorrect is utter bollocks. Perhaps you'd like to explain exactly why all the points that I made are incorrect?

Tim thinks 240 volts fridges are better than 12 volts ones, which is true if you are on a landline but not if Ccing and it's a good 12 volts fridge